#1
I have 95% settled on my amp head and cab choices. I'm going for an ENGL Savage 120W E610 head matched with an ENGL PRO XXL cab 412 240W.

http://www.themadape.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=E-412XXL&CartID=2

http://www.thomann.de/gb/engl_savage_120_e610.htm

Just a few questions:

1) Will 120W be too loud for home use? I know there is a volume knob but will the sound be sacrificed a great deal if the tubes aren't ran at a high volume?

2) Is the cab a good match for the head? I would assume so as they are the same brand and it's one of the most expensive ones ENGL make, but on the description it states "ultra fat bottom end, lots of headroom, tight midrange and shining treble". I'm guessing it does all those well?

3) Should I invest in an ENGL footpedal switch for the amp? Or just get seperate pedals(flanger, delay etc)? Or both?

4) I do plan on gigging and recording at a later time. Moving the head would be easy enough, but is it a pain in the ass moving around a cab of this size?

5) What does the V30 in the cab mean? I know they stand for vintage speakers, but some cabs have a V60. Would a V60 be better?

Sorry for the billion questions, I know some of them may be stupid, but I really want to have this all correct before I hand over this amount of money.
Last edited by Megadeth09 at May 25, 2011,
#2
well you won't want to push a 120w head in your house, so you'll need something like a ts9

i quite often stick a 4x12 in the back of a people carrier, do need a second set of hands to move it around but its not actually that heavy..
#3
Quote by Megadeth09
3) Should I invest in an ENGL footpedal switch for the amp? Or just get seperate pedals(flanger, delay etc)? Or both?

The ENGL footswitch won't give you flanger and delay. It'll only change channels. If you want effects, you'll have to buy them. If you don't need them, don't buy pedals.
#4
Quote by funeralllllllll
well you won't want to push a 120w head in your house, so you'll need something like a ts9

i quite often stick a 4x12 in the back of a people carrier, do need a second set of hands to move it around but its not actually that heavy..


What's a TS9? Is it like an attenuator?
#5
Quote by WtrPlyr
The ENGL footswitch won't give you flanger and delay. It'll only change channels. If you want effects, you'll have to buy them. If you don't need them, don't buy pedals.


I see, so it's probably best I buy the footswitch with the amp and see if i need effects later, because I will want to change channels by foot.
#6
1. If the 120W is too much power, you can send the Savage over to me

Unless you're going for power tube distortion, you can dial your master volume down to home friendly levels.

That said, most tube amps will need some push to sound their best, however, you won't lose much even if you're not pushing the amp. It'll still sound good, but not as good as compared to running the volume higher.

For example, my Mesa MkV really starts to sound awesome when I dial my master volume past 3. However, even below 3, it still sounds good.

2. Most descriptions of tone does nothing to tell you how the cab will complement the head. What you can do is to check out youtube vids to see if the tone of the matched cab catches your fancy.

At the end of the day, the person that can best determine if the cab is a good match is yourself. If you don't like it, you can always search around for speakers that will better match the amp.

3. Get the amp first, then decide if the footswitch will value-add to the amp.

3. Regarding your effects, can't you use your current effect pedals? WHy the need to get new pedal so soon after getting the new amp?
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#7
120W is quite a lot... My 50W Marshall is loud enough, sometimes too loud. Even for live use, usually the PA dude asks me to tone it down.
#8
Quote by WtrPlyr
The ENGL footswitch won't give you flanger and delay. It'll only change channels. If you want effects, you'll have to buy them. If you don't need them, don't buy pedals.


I just saw this post. Should you really be buying an amp, when you don't seem so certain about its capabilities?

Just wondering.
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#9
Quote by Megadeth09
What's a TS9? Is it like an attenuator?

its a pedal that will help push the tubes to a more overdriven sound at lower volumes, if i played a 120w at high volume in my house i'd be homeless pretty fast!

e^ agree with kitty there
#10
Quote by ragingkitty
1. If the 120W is too much power, you can send the Savage over to me

Unless you're going for power tube distortion, you can dial your master volume down to home friendly levels.

That said, most tube amps will need some push to sound their best, however, you won't lose much even if you're not pushing the amp. It'll still sound good, but not as good as compared to running the volume higher.

For example, my Mesa MkV really starts to sound awesome when I dial my master volume past 3. However, even below 3, it still sounds good.

2. Most descriptions of tone does nothing to tell you how the cab will complement the head. What you can do is to check out youtube vids to see if the tone of the matched cab catches your fancy.

At the end of the day, the person that can best determine if the cab is a good match is yourself. If you don't like it, you can always search around for speakers that will better match the amp.

3. Get the amp first, then decide if the footswitch will value-add to the amp.

3. Regarding your effects, can't you use your current effect pedals? WHy the need to get new pedal so soon after getting the new amp?


I do have a Korg AX3000G multieffects pedal at the moment, but might switch to a higher end multi-effects or single pedals later.
#12
Quote by ragingkitty
I just saw this post. Should you really be buying an amp, when you don't seem so certain about its capabilities?

Just wondering.


I do want a step up from my current amp(MG15...). I did ask around on the forums about which amp would give me awesome cleans, as well as insane distortions. I was originally set on a 5150+ but the cleans put me off. Then I was told Mesa and ENGL have amps that do excel at both, but most were not in combo form. I'm still learning.
#13
Quote by funeralllllllll
its a pedal that will help push the tubes to a more overdriven sound at lower volumes, if i played a 120w at high volume in my house i'd be homeless pretty fast!

e^ agree with kitty there


I see, is there any drawbacks to using one?
#14
^ not really, just you have to buy a pedal. i guess if you don't have it turned on all the time you'd want to make sure that the buffer in it is good or it's true bypass so it doesn't mess with your tone too much.

fwiw engls have tons of preamp gain, so a tubescreamer isn't really necessary- that being said I like what a ts-type pedal does to my savage se, so it certainly wouldn't hurt having one. bear in mind, the vast majority of overdrive pedals are either clones of the tubescreamer, or very closely based on one- if you're only using it to boost an already overdriven amp it's unlikely you'll need the most expensive one. one of the cheaper ones would be fine, at least until you're sure you like it, or until you need bombproof reliability too (say, if you're gigging).

Get some kind of footswitch to change the channels, yeah. you have several options with engl, you can either get the one which is designed to work with the amp (the 6-button one or whatever), or else get bog standard stereo footswitches (a variety of manufacturers make them) with jack plugs... which'll be cheaper, but you might end up with a whole heap of footswitches to switch everything the engl lets you switch, lol.

as someone else said, the engl footswitch is nothing to do with fx. if you need/use fx you'll also need pedals or some kind of rack processor.

engls sound pretty good at low volumes. as kitty's saying, they sound better turned up, but engls are one of the better options for low volume playing (despite the rated wattage... the rated wattage has very little to do with how tube amps sound at really low, bedroom volume levels).

yes it's a pain in the ass to move a 4x12. those things can be 40kg+.

v30s are better than v60s, as far as i'm aware.

the xxl cab... as kitty says, it really just depends on what tone you want- just because it's dearer doesn't mean it's better, kind of thing. i haven't tried the xxl, but even the engl pro cabs, from what i can remember, sounded pretty modern and tight, and i'd imagine that the xxls are even more so in that regard. Just depends on the tone you're after.

I think that's most of your questions answered
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#15
Quote by Megadeth09
I do want a step up from my current amp(MG15...). I did ask around on the forums about which amp would give me awesome cleans, as well as insane distortions. I was originally set on a 5150+ but the cleans put me off. Then I was told Mesa and ENGL have amps that do excel at both, but most were not in combo form. I'm still learning.


That right there shows that you did not do all your homework.

One of the Mesa that does high gain very well and has awesome cleans is one of their flagship products, the Mark V, and it comes in combo form too. Even the Roadster is available in combo form. Most of their amps do not come in combo form, but 1 of their best amps and 1 of their better amps do come in combos.

I was very confused when you said something about getting a footswitch for a delay and flanger. I was under the impression that you wanted to change your existing pedals too. To only find that you thought that the footswitch would give you effects. A sure sign that your knowledge of the amp has got several glaring holes. This should be a real concern for someone preparing to pay a king's ransom for an amp.

I can appreciate that you want to move on from a POS amp to a better amp. I only moved from medicore amps and modelling software to a Mesa only 2 years ago, and I can understand the excitement.

However, you seem to lack a basic understanding of the basic capabilities of the amp, and to top it off you went for the most powerful ENGL, AND THEN only ask us if it can do bedroom friendly volumes.

I'm not saying its wrong for you to make the jump from a MG to a ENGL, but I honestly think you need to do more research to really understand what you are getting yourself into. Learning is a progressive thing, by all means do all the research you want. However, you need to do the research in an unbiased manner FIRST, and once you have all the data you need, then make a decision. Not do the research after you make the decision. I've done that before and it is a very costly mistake. Trust me on this.

Honestly I get this feeling that maybe you should sell off the MG, spend the money on a Vypyr as a stopgap upgrade first, and spend more time really searching for THAT amp. I'm not entirely convinced this is not a "bigger is cooler" purchase decision.

Nonetheless, its your money. Only thing is... I'm not quite sure if you know what you're getting into. One thing tho, have you heard how the Savage sound across its tonal spectrum and channels? If you have not, I urge you to rethink, or at least postpone your purchase until you have, and have decided its the right amp for you.

My 2cents worth.
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Last edited by ragingkitty at May 25, 2011,
#16
Quote by ragingkitty
That right there shows that you did not do all your homework.

One of the Mesa that does high gain very well and has awesome cleans is one of their flagship products, the Mark V, and it comes in combo form too. Even the Roadster is available in combo form. Most of their amps do not come in combo form, but 1 of their best amps and 1 of their better amps do come in combos.

I was very confused when you said something about getting a footswitch for a delay and flanger. I was under the impression that you wanted to change your existing pedals too. To only find that you thought that the footswitch would give you effects. A sure sign that your knowledge of the amp has got several glaring holes. This should be a real concern for someone preparing to pay a king's ransom for an amp.

I can appreciate that you want to move on from a POS amp to a better amp. I only moved from medicore amps and modelling software to a Mesa only 2 years ago, and I can understand the excitement.

However, you seem to lack a basic understanding of the basic capabilities of the amp, and to top it off you went for the most powerful ENGL, AND THEN only ask us if it can do bedroom friendly volumes.

I'm not saying its wrong for you to make the jump from a MG to a ENGL, but I honestly think you need to do more research to really understand what you are getting yourself into. Learning is a progressive thing, by all means do all the research you want. However, you need to do the research in an unbiased manner FIRST, and once you have all the data you need, then make a decision. Not do the research after you make the decision. I've done that before and it is a very costly mistake. Trust me on this.

Honestly I get this feeling that maybe you should sell off the MG, spend the money on a Vypyr as a stopgap upgrade first, and spend more time really searching for THAT amp. I'm not entirely convinced this is not a "bigger is cooler" purchase decision.

Nonetheless, its your money. Only thing is... I'm not quite sure if you know what you're getting into. One thing tho, have you heard how the Savage sound across its tonal spectrum and channels? If you have not, I urge you to rethink, or at least postpone your purchase until you have, and have decided its the right amp for you.

My 2cents worth.


I really appreciate your honesty and have taken it into consideration. Thanks to the guys that posted in the thread too. I will take some time to review everything, I really did want to just throw big money and get the best but maybe that's not the most reasonable thing to do at the moment.
#17
Quote by Megadeth09
I really appreciate your honesty and have taken it into consideration. Thanks to the guys that posted in the thread too. I will take some time to review everything, I really did want to just throw big money and get the best but maybe that's not the most reasonable thing to do at the moment.



Good choice.

Just take this into consideration. I'm not sayin' that the Savage is the wrong amp.

All I'm say is that you don't seem certain and sure about the amp. Do more research read up about it. Ask MC or Min (tho I'm not sure if they've touched a Savage before). Go hit up YouTube.

I distinctly recall that you mention the Savage to be unavailable where you live. I can appreciate that, but at least make sure that you do all you can to understand and know what the Savage is like, can do and will do for your sound.

Trust me, I can honestly appreciate your predicament. I live in Singapore / Malaysia, where Mesas are not easy to come by, and I had to buy my MkV without testing it. So I was also in a similar situation as you are in now.

What I did was to read up about its specs, check out the manual, ask previous owners of MkIV, check out vids and sound clips. Sure I couldn't test the amp; like how you can't either, but at least I made sure I did all I could before I put my money down.

At the end of the day, maybe you will end up with a different amp, maybe you'll come back to the Savage, its hard to say. At least when you do buy the amp, you will know what you are getting. You won't end up with hyped up / amateur / unrealistic expectations of the amp, and end up disappointed when it doesn't do what you thought it should do.

The Savage is a big ticket purchase, at least make sure its the right big-ticket purchase. I'm sure that at the price of the Savage, its practically the cost of a down payment for a car for most young PMEBs in Oz. If you're gonna spend that much, at least spend as much time researching the amp as they would the car.
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Last edited by ragingkitty at May 25, 2011,