#1
So I made a trip to guitar center today to look for amps. My main concern is keeping up with my other guitarist (has a Mesa 4x12 and a Peavey 6505+) and a drummer as I am the other guitarist in the band. After playing a bunch of different amps, I saw the Line 6 Spider Valve Mk II 212 combo sitting there and didn't think much of it. I was trying to get away from Line 6 as my first amp (a Spider III 30) wasn't exactly my idea of a good amp haha. That said, I thought why the hell not and plugged into it. My god was I wrong... this amp, to my preferences at least, was incredible. I fell in love. And to top it all off, they had one there used for $499 USD...

Here's the question/concern though...

Is 40 watts enough to keep up with my other guitarist under a circumstance where there is no ability to mic the amp? I'm not just concerned about volume, but overall tone and projection. Is a 40 watt 2x12 able to go against a Peavey 6505+ and Mesa 4x12 half stack? That said, I believe the volume used on his head when we play is roughly 6 to 6.5 on the post so I'm concerned for the power. Also, is 499 a good price because I'm not concerned about the sound... I love it.

Keep this in mind, my budget was 500 and my other option was an Ibanez TBX150H and a B-52 cab. Would I be better off going that route or snagging the Line 6 as it's tube and not solid state like the Ibby.

One last thing. Sorry haha but is 150 watts solid state louder than 40 watts tube? I'm rather new to tube amps in general.

Thanks!

EDIT: Forgot to mention. My band is playing metal so the headroom wattage for cleans is unnecessary.
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Last edited by Krauser at May 26, 2011,
#2
40 watt tube is plenty. It won't be as loud as the other guy, but it will be loud enough. If you like the sound, by all means go for it. Stay away from that Ibanez....
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#3
Lol dude 40w is more then enough youll be fine
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#4
Quote by stig354
Lol dude 40w is more then enough youll be fine


Haha ok and may be a weird question/obvious one, but why does the volume to wattage ratio vary so greatly between tubes and solid state?

Like, my 30 watt SS amp got destroyed by a Blackstar HT-5 I tried out today volume/tonally... I was shocked. I knew there was a difference, but not that dramatically

Also, would connecting a 2x12 extension to the Line 6 make it louder or just increase the headroom/low end?
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#5
The cab difference is what I would be more concerned about. My 50watt 2x12 could only barely keep up with my buddies 4x12. It ending up working, but he had to turn down a tiny bit.

Does the line6 have an extra slot for another cab?

Also, would connecting a 2x12 extension to the Line 6 make it louder or just increase the headroom/low end?


Yes. You are moving more air. I would totally hook another 2x12 up to it.
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Last edited by shikkaka at May 26, 2011,
#6
Meh just the way it is. It does vary with solid state also. Kustom kga10 went louder then my mg15.
Also consider that percieved volume an actual volume can vary.
Ie 2 amps both at a set decibal level may not actually sound the same level depending on the eq settings and how our hearing works across different frequencies.
Sorry i'm late, but my walk has got terribly silly today
Last edited by stig354 at May 26, 2011,
#7
Quote by shikkaka
The cab difference is what I would be more concerned about. My 50watt 2x12 could only barely keep up with my buddies 4x12. It ending up working, but he had to turn down a tiny bit.

Does the line6 have an extra slot for another cab?


Yes. You are moving more air. I would totally hook another 2x12 up to it.


As it is, there's one slot at 8 ohms for the two Vintage 30's in the combo, and there's another section with two 4 ohm slots, one for the two Vintage 30's in the combo and another open for an extension at 4 ohms as well.
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#8
Why do valve amps sound so much louder? Two reasons.

One, the harmonics generated by valves overdriving are much more readily picked up by the human ear, causing the illusion of more sound - two, wattage is measured RMS - at the point where the amp is just not quite beginning to break up. In solid state amps, the breakup happens very late on the volume dial and is generally not musical - valves start to overdrive much earlier, and because of this 10 on your 30w valve amp is actually a lot louder than 30w.

Am pretty tired so somebody else could probably explain this better.
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#9
Ah ok I see... some fancy physics mumbo jumbo haha. Ok well that's cool. So should I go for it at 500 bucks? Sounds pretty good to me considering there's a warranty as well.
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#10
You might as well grab it unless you're willing to save up a bit more. You could get a Peavey XXX or a Jet City or something instead.

Personally I wasn't a big fan of the Spider Valve. You could also give the Vypyr Tube a try, it's 60 watts.
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#11
Quote by Raijouta
You might as well grab it unless you're willing to save up a bit more. You could get a Peavey XXX or a Jet City or something instead.

Personally I wasn't a big fan of the Spider Valve. You could also give the Vypyr Tube a try, it's 60 watts.


He would still need a cab though from what I can tell.

For $500, that's not bad at all for a SV212. I would go for it. MUCH better than the Ibanez. 40W is plenty loud. And he's playing 6-6.5 on the post of a 6505+ .... holy shit that's loud. Does your drummer keep up with that?
#12
6 on a 6505? That is insane. I used to gig and practice with mine between 2 and 4. Anything over 4 would completely drown out the rest of the band hahaha
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#13
You should grab the Spider Valve, and keep an eye on Strymon. They're supposedly working a replacement drop in pre-amp. How much difference it would make I don't know, but knowing Strymon I bet it's awesome.
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#14
I've always heard good things about the spider valve. Nothing like the SS spider series.

Once you get past like 20-30W tube you're not getting a lot more more volume out of the higher wattage so much as you're getting more clean headroom. I mean it WILL get louder, but the perceived difference between a 50W and 100W amp volume wise is minimal... But if you're cranking either one you're surely drowning out everything else. I can't turn my mark IV above like 3 on the master at band practice without washing out the drummer. That's with the channel volumes pretty high though.
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#15
You won't be heard if he's playing a 6505+ on 6-6.5 but nothing else will either. If I put my VK 212 on anything above 4 people start getting pissed off down the street. If you guys weren't wearing ear plugs you'd be deaf by now.
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#16
I could have been wrong on the 6 post volume thing... that's mad loud. Its definitely not 6 but I could have sworn it was but come to think of it, I player a 6505 and 3ish is about as much as you'd need so im pretty sure i saw the wrong thing haha but yeah so im going to jump on the spider I guess because from what im hearing from you guys, 500 is a pretty good price for it.
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#17
Honestly i dont think a spider valve combo will keep up with a 6505... While its better then the shitty beginner amp spiders, Its still a modeller at the end of the day and wont cut through as well as an all valve amp.

Don't go with the tbx either those are boke.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1387138

Read this, post details back and people in the know of the american used market will take a look for better options.
Last edited by coolstoryangus at May 27, 2011,
#18
Quote by coolstoryangus
Honestly i dont think a spider valve combo will keep up with a 6505... While its better then the shitty beginner amp spiders, Its still a modeller at the end of the day and wont cut through as well as an all valve amp.

Don't go with the tbx either those are boke.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1387138

Read this, post details back and people in the know of the american used market will take a look for better options.


Sorry I didn't write it out like a checklist considering I already stated all of that already but here it goes.

Budgets 500
Location is northern nj
Style is downtuned metal (standard seven string tuning in b)
It is a gigging amp

I'm kinda finding it hard to think that this with a 2x12 extionsion possibly wont keep up... but still...
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#19
Your concern shouldn't be whether or not you can keep up with your other guitarist, its whether or not you can keep up with a drummer. If you can sit at a good volume and be heard with a drummer and bassist and the other guitarist is drowning you out, then he is drowning the rest of the band out as well and needs to turn his amp down. Few bands ever crank their amps up to maximum with high wattage amps.

Also, keep in mind that music store loudness is very different from on-stage loudness. There are a lot of amps that sound very loud in the store or at home, yet have a hard time being heard in a mix.
Last edited by al112987 at May 27, 2011,
#20
Quote by al112987
Your concern shouldn't be whether or not you can keep up with your other guitarist, its whether or not you can keep up with a drummer. If you can sit at a good volume and be heard with a drummer and bassist and the other guitarist is drowning you out, then he is drowning the rest of the band out as well and needs to turn his amp down. Few bands ever crank their amps up to maximum with high wattage amps.

Also, keep in mind that music store loudness is very different from on-stage loudness. There are a lot of amps that sound very loud in the store or at home, yet have a hard time being heard in a mix.


True... im just concerned its too small/not enough. Am I crazy haha? Im confident its loud enough, I just don't want the tone to potentially suffer as compared to a half stack if it isn't enough to put up with the rest of the mix.
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#21
I don't know why anyone thinks a 40w tube amp wouldn't be able to keep up with a drummer. I've seen bands where the lead guitarist was playing a little 15w tweaker micro stack, and he kept up with the drums just fine. I have an egnater renegade also, and even on the 18w setting it's still incredibly loud. In fact, I've never had the volume anywhere close to max on that thing. Trust me, 40w of tubey goodness is plenty. Especially if you say you don't care about clean headroom.

Basically if you are getting drown out it just means the other guys need to turn down some. Every damn band practice I 've been to ends up being a battle of the volume knobs because everybody is trying to turn up so they stand out in the mix instead of blending the way it should. By the end of practice it's deafening. Also where you practice can affect it too. If the room is too small, or oddly shaped, it can make you sound way different than if you're rocking some club where there are lots of big open areas. No matter how you EQ and set volume at practice, you'll almost certainly have to adjust it for a gig, because the room dictates a lot.
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Last edited by jpatan at May 27, 2011,
#22
Quote by jpatan
I don't know why anyone thinks a 40w tube amp wouldn't be able to keep up with a drummer. I've seen bands where the lead guitarist was playing a little 15w tweaker micro stack, and he kept up with the drums just fine. I have an egnater renegade also, and even on the 18w setting it's still incredibly loud. In fact, I've never had the volume anywhere close to max on that thing. Trust me, 40w of tubey goodness is plenty. Especially if you say you don't care about clean headroom.

Basically if you are getting drown out it just means the other guys need to turn down some. Every damn band practice I 've been to ends up being a battle of the volume knobs because everybody is trying to turn up so they stand out in the mix instead of blending the way it should. By the end of practice it's deafening. Also where you practice can affect it too. If the room is too small, or oddly shaped, it can make you sound way different than if you're rocking some club where there are lots of big open areas. No matter how you EQ and set volume at practice, you'll almost certainly have to adjust it for a gig, because the room dictates a lot.


Thanks a bunch man. So I'm going to go for the Valve 212 with that in mind. I had it at 1ish at the guitar center I tried it at and it was pumping so that's reassuring. Thanks a ton guys!
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#23
If you have $500 to spend, surely you could pick up a 6505+ combo somewhere for that over there? A Spider Valve or a Vyper Tube would do the trick (preferably the vyper) but you really want a 6505 don't you? You should be able to score one in your budget so why are you pissing around with things that may sound a bit like what you want when you can afford the actual thing? Why settle for virtual reality when you can have actual reality?
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#24
Quote by Cathbard
If you have $500 to spend, surely you could pick up a 6505+ combo somewhere for that over there? A Spider Valve or a Vyper Tube would do the trick (preferably the vyper) but you really want a 6505 don't you? You should be able to score one in your budget so why are you pissing around with things that may sound a bit like what you want when you can afford the actual thing? Why settle for virtual reality when you can have actual reality?


While I like the 6505 very much, I really like the Spider Valve as well and when I'm not playing with my band doing strictly high gain and metal, I like the versatility it has for messing around with other genres and sounds/effects. I've always been a huge fan of its all around coverage, sound and effect wise. But yeah, a 5150 212 combo would be something I'd keep my eye out for definitely.
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#25
Quote by shikkaka
The cab difference is what I would be more concerned about. My 50watt 2x12 could only barely keep up with my buddies 4x12. It ending up working, but he had to turn down a tiny bit.

Does the line6 have an extra slot for another cab?


Yes. You are moving more air. I would totally hook another 2x12 up to it.


Wrong. It will not make it louder. It will only push more air over a wider surface area.
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