#1
Since there are no active threads about this at the moment, this is probably a good time to ask.

We keep going through the following two debates that are essentially cut from the same cloth:

reading vs tab
theory vs no theory

Inevitably, it goes on for a few pages that consist primarily of petty bickering. From there, it either fizzles out because people get bored of bickering, or degenerates into flame wars because somebody decides to start making it personal.

I'm considering adding to the rules that this topic is not allowed, with a suggestion to search for any number of the myriad of similar debates to arrive at the same inconclusive answer they would get anyways, only without a new 6 page thread of bickering.

Any thoughts?

Should this be warnable (it WILL be in the rules, after all), or just be locked without question by a mod in the neighbourhood?

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#3
Why not create 2 big stickied threads for those topics?
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#5
Well in my opinion there isn't really that much action in the MT forums anyways so if a thread here and there is discussing these topics it would not really push away "serious" posts since these normally get a good answer quite quickly and almost always before getting pushed off the first page as it is. However, if you do put this in the rules, I think a warning for such an innocent and harmless error would be very harsh.
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#6
there's little sense in trying to debate against theory in the forum dedicated to the discussion of it.
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#7
Quote by axemanchris
Since there are no active threads about this at the moment, this is probably a good time to ask.

We keep going through the following two debates that are essentially cut from the same cloth:

reading vs tab
theory vs no theory

Inevitably, it goes on for a few pages that consist primarily of petty bickering. From there, it either fizzles out because people get bored of bickering, or degenerates into flame wars because somebody decides to start making it personal.



We'd just find something else to bicker pettily about, and then you'd have to make a new rule.

I don't care if you do it, but Id be surprised if it actually impacted the frequency or pettyness of the arguments.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at May 29, 2011,
#8
I think "Tab v. Reading Music" is a valid argument and could be solved with a short sticky. I know a lot of purists think that only using tab is deplorable, but honestly, some people don't need to read sheet music. Though, like every skill, going the extra mile can't hurt...unless you're so busy reading the sheet music you don't notice your piano is falling over on your feet.

But "Theory v. No Theory" is kind of silly. Seagull had it right, everyone here is going to say 'learn it learn it learn it!"

I think they should only be warned or whatever if they initiate several threads on the same topic.
#10
Lock should be fine. Lets face it. You don't have to know theory, or read sheet music, but learning to do so will give you a better understanding of music. Its up to the person to decide what approach works best for them, and a thread devoted to a bunch of silly kids arguing with music majors about the importance of western theory is sort of a waste of time tbh.
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#12
Personally, Lock and warn. The only way to defeat a problem, in my opinion, is to fight it. So lock and warn.Get people scared to start it, then they wont.
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#13
I think that reading vs tabs should be a sticky. But the theory vs no theory arguments should be locked.

As for giving warnings, I don't feel it will help very much. People are going start that thread every so often even with the warnings. I think much of the people asking questions here sort of pass through (I could be wrong though), so they don't give too much though about the "norms" of MT (example: how many people asking about modes have actually read the modes sticky?). It would be up the the regular users to report the thread and tell them why the thread will be closed.
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#14
Quote by DiminishedFifth
I think a sticky where we link a couple older threads about the Theory vs. No Theory argument would be fine and then lock all the new ones that come.


I'm with this point of view. Perhaps somebody would like to write an article/faq on the debate to go along with the links, including addressing popular questions like "Jimi Hendrix didn't know theory, why should I?", and "Does theory stop you from being creative?".
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#15
I always thought those theory vs no theory questions were ridiculous, given the population they are asking
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#16
Quote by AlanHB
I'm with this point of view. Perhaps somebody would like to write an article/faq on the debate to go along with the links, including addressing popular questions like "Jimi Hendrix didn't know theory, why should I?", and "Does theory stop you from being creative?".



The problem with that is you promote 1 persons idea and shut everyone else's out.

Lets face it, there are lots of silly threads, arguments, questions, advice....ect.
this is a forum full of people of all levels, all ready to give advice and argue to support the advice they give, whether it's good, or really crappy. it happens in theory VS no theory threads.... it happens in all threads.
I'm not saying it's great, but I think trying to regulate it is a well meaning but ultimately pointless tactic.

bottom line ........you can't regulate the quality of discussion. That's pretty much what we're talking about here. And like anything there is a subjective nature in determining what's quality and what isn't. As a poster in this forum, I'd like to make that choice for myself. I can easily ignore threads that I find annoying.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at May 30, 2011,
#17
Quote by GuitarMunky
The problem with that is you promote 1 persons idea and shut everyone else's out.

Lets face it, there are lots of silly threads, arguments, questions, advice....ect.
this is a forum full of people of all levels, all ready to give advice and argue to support the advice they give. it happens in theory VS no theory threads.... it happens in all threads.
I'm not saying it's great, but I think trying to regulate it is a well meaning but ultimately pointless tactic.

bottom line ........you can't regulate the quality of discussion. That's pretty much what we're talking about here. And like anything there is a subjective nature in determining what's quality and what isn't.

if discussions on the importance of music theory bother you, A good tactic IMO is to ignore those threads.

That's why I say to link some previous threads. Let them read through and get both sides without having to waste our time repeating the same thing we've said time and time again.

I do, however, disagree with what you first said. It's not really an idea that theory does help. It's pretty much fact. There is a measurable aspect to each person. I for one got better at writing when I learned theory. But to the person against theory (if there are actually some out there...) they only have one side to their argument making it unfounded and based off of pure conjecture and the will to be right no matter what. I think a FAQ would be great, honestly.

Let them read the FAQ and then read through the thread and come up with their own conclusion.

We'll just be pushing the right one
#18
I'm with Munky.

It sounds more that you (Chris) are making it personal.

If you just ignore it and don't take it personal, then it shouldn't bother you.

It's better to convince people of how theory helps/can help you, then convince/insinuate/imply that theory is the only thing that will help you.

I Am with Munky, because I'm almost certain it won't help.

The arguments you listed Chris are just the surface talk.

The underlying cause is most of the time, people who are experiencing youth, and are kicking towards everything they encounter, and question everything in life.

You can't do anything about that.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at May 30, 2011,
#19
Put it this way. we have a "modes before you ask" sticky, which was created for similar reasons (created 2 and 1/2 years ago, and viewed 19566 times so far). Now, how many modes threads do we still have?
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at May 30, 2011,
#20
who cares forms are made for questions discussions and arguments. Like miss beauty paginate really wants world peace.

No thread as ever gotten to me to where i felt like i had to report it or anything.