#1
Is it true that there will never be a sharp on an E or a B, causing E-F to be a halftone, and the same thing with B-C? If so, does this apply to every major scale?
Last edited by Dietsoda at May 30, 2011,
#2
E and F as well as B and C in their natural state are already a half step apart. And yes, E and B can be sharped. For instance the key of C# major has seven sharps, including B# and E#.
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#3
If i'm right with what you're asking.....

There is no flat or sharp interval between the notes E & F or the notes B and C. In other words, the notes E#, B#, Fb, or Cb do not exist.

If this might answer another question so be it:

There are no sharps or flats in a C Major Scale.
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#5
B#, Cb, E# and Fb exist as notes. If you treat them like they "don't exist" you won't get very far in theory at all. Especially since your question is asking about major scales. B# is enharmonic to C. As in, they sound exactly the same, but are -not- the same note. Same goes with Cb, it is enharmonic to B. -Not- the same note.

Hope this clears things up.
#7
Quote by Dietsoda
...what in the hell does enharmonic mean?


Different name for the same pitch.

B# and C are enharmonic
#9
Quote by Kraig82
There is no flat or sharp interval between the notes E & F or the notes B and C. In other words, the notes E#, B#, Fb, or Cb do not exist.


guessing you're not too familiar with theory.

listen to dragonblood and disturbed. they've got this covered.

Quote by Dietsoda
I thought that would be B# and C Minor?


um. what?
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#11
Quote by Dietsoda
I thought that would be B# and C Minor?

It seems you have notes and keys confused, and possibly intervals.
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#12
It is as I said it was...
That's a Bingo!!! Is that the way you say it? "Thats's a bingo?"

-Cols. Hans Landa AKA The Jew Hunter,
Inglourious Basterds
#13
Quote by Kraig82
It is as I said it was...


yes, it is. "there are no sharps or flats in a C major scale."
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#14
Don't be a turd cutter, ya know what I mean.
That's a Bingo!!! Is that the way you say it? "Thats's a bingo?"

-Cols. Hans Landa AKA The Jew Hunter,
Inglourious Basterds
#15
What's a minor third above B♭?
D♭ right? (Not C♯ which is an augmented second).

What is an augmented fourth above C?
F♯ right? (Not G♭, cause that would be a diminished fifth)

What is an augmented fifth above A?
(I'll give you a hint, it's not F because that's would be a minor sixth and I'm looking for some kind of fifth.)
Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at May 30, 2011,
#16
Quote by Dietsoda
I thought that would be B# and C Minor?


That does not make any sense.

# = Sharp. Sharp means the pitch is raised by 1 semitone, or a half step. This is one fret up on the guitar. Or one key to the right (including black ones) on the piano.
b = Flat. Means the pitch is lowered by 1 semitone, or a half step. This one 1 fret down on the guitar, or one key to the left on the piano (again including the black ones).

"Minor" and "Major" are two totally different things entirely. These are used for intervals, scales, chords, and key signatures to relate the other notes back to the "tonic" note, or the note the scale/key/chord is built around.
#17
Quote by Dietsoda
Is it true that there will never be a sharp on an E or a B, causing E-F to be a halftone, and the same thing with B-C? If so, does this apply to every major scale?



No that's not true, there will be rare instances with regards to scales where you will run across those, as well as certain chords. But for 99 percent of the time you will be correct. I would seriously recommend that for now you operate within all the A B C D E F G major scales, and learn some fundamentals, such as how the incidence of half and whole steps are consistent in Major Scales (called a Major scale formula)

Start by spelling every Major scale in those keys above. It will help a lot. Post them if you like and many of us will be happy to let you know how you did.

Next understand that every letter is used once with no skips. When you understand and adhere to these ground rules, everything potentially is in play. This is how we keep our interval letter names straight. Music is very logical, but for the self taught and lazy it's usually out of reach for a long time to come. This is a category which Kraig82 appears to fill out very well.

Best,

Sean
#18
Quote by Kraig82
Don't be a turd cutter, ya know what I mean.


of course i do. i'm not stupid, i know what i'm doing.

if you don't think there's such a thing as a B#, spell me a G#maj chord. i'll be a good guy and spell out the trap for you - you can't say G# C D# because G# to C is a diminished fourth, and chords are built using thirds.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#19
Quote by Sean0913
No that's not true, there will be rare instances with regards to scales where you will run across those, as well as certain chords. But for 99 percent of the time you will be correct. I would seriously recommend that for now you operate within all the A B C D E F G major scales, and learn some fundamentals, such as how the incidence of half and whole steps are consistent in Major Scales (called a Major scale formula)

Start by spelling every Major scale in those keys above. It will help a lot. Post them if you like and many of us will be happy to let you know how you did.

Next understand that every letter is used once with no skips. When you understand and adhere to these ground rules, everything potentially is in play. This is how we keep our interval letter names straight. Music is very logical, but for the self taught and lazy it's usually out of reach for a long time to come. This is a category which Kraig82 appears to fill out very well.

Best,

Sean



So it would be.

A major: A-B-B#-C#-D#-E#-F-(A)


Or do I have this wrong, because I was just following the formula.:P
#20
Quote by Dietsoda
So it would be.

A major: A-B-B#-C#-D#-E#-F-(A)


Or do I have this wrong, because I was just following the formula.:P


You repeat the letter B. That's not right.

E# and F are enharmonic, you just repeated the same note.

You also have the formula wrong.
^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^


"To know the truth of history is to realize its ultimate myth and its inevitable ambiguity." Everything is made up and the facts don't matter.


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#22
But wheres the G?! WHERES THE G?!
The major and minor scales are always spelt out with all of the letters from A-G. You'd spell out every letter once without repeating and without skipping.
Last edited by -Mantra- at Jun 1, 2011,
#23
Quote by Dietsoda
So it would be.

A major: A-B-B#-C#-D#-E#-F-(A)


Or do I have this wrong, because I was just following the formula.:P


No.

Each letter must be used and is used only once. Except for the octave.

You weren't following the formula, that or you found wrong information, that or you misunderstood what you read/heard, because no one is teaching you. Get used to a lot of that happening.

So the incidence of 2 B's and no G instantly tells you it's wrong.

Go learn also the order of half and whole steps in a major scale. This isn't correct. A to B is a whole step, but so does B to some sort of C.

I can tell that you dont even understand the order of the musical alphabet, or you would already see that B# is the same enharmonic pitch as C.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but if I were teaching you, I'd begin further back from where you are now. You have to KNOW all your whole and half steps, and you have to know the way the musical alphabet goes. These are fundamentals that already have you sunk. If I said "what's a whole step behind F?" you'd need to snap and instantly tell me Eb, or you don't know it well enough to move forward. That's how it works.

Now you know, and it's up to you to work it out. My opinion? You're way too far from where you should be at.

Best,

Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at Jun 1, 2011,
#25
I'm going to go ahead and assume the TS is still confused out of his mind on this issue, as all these arguments over notation rules and the like aren't doing much to help him. TS, here's the simplest way to think of things. In music -not any particular major scale, but music itself- you have the notes A-A#-B-C-C#-D-D#-E-F-F#-G-G#. Basically the letters A through G with an extra note between each one, with the exception of the B-C and E-F notes. In some circumstances (and ones you likely won't encounter for a while), you need to use the note name B# or E# (or Cb or Fb) in order to make the "math" make sense. For example, you aren't supposed to repeat the same note twice when writing a scale, so sometimes you'd use the note B# instead of C to avoid having a C and a C# in one scale notation. However, in a practical context, the notes B# and C are exactly the same, as are E# and F. All you're doing is calling the same pitch by a different name for the sake of notation. There is no extra note in between B and C or E and F like there is between all the other notes. There are only 12 notes that we can distinguish before we repeat the first note all over again. We've got 7 letter names, A through G. This leaves us 5 more notes to add before we get to 12 notes. We can't put an extra note between all 7 letters, as that would make 14 notes. Thus, we don't put anything between B and C or E and F.