#1
I have a few little things that i've been pondering over about music, and I would like to have a little sharing session with you. Here we go:

-Why is it that there is no E#/Fb or B#/Cb until a sharp or flat scale is played? Do they just magically appear?
-How did the "notemakers" designate the notes that we know as such, and why that particular pitch?
-Is piano or guitar a better "bridging" instrument?

And finally:

If there is an afterlife, what kind of jam sessions would be going on? I mean look who you've got: Stevie Ray Vaughn, Jimi Hendrix, Freddie Mercury, Jon Bonham, Jim Morrison.... the list goes on and on and on. Think about it...
That's a Bingo!!! Is that the way you say it? "Thats's a bingo?"

-Cols. Hans Landa AKA The Jew Hunter,
Inglourious Basterds
#2
-E# and b# (and the enharmonic counterparts of them) just dont exist
- Good question, they were bored?
- Id say guitar =P

I think the best band of the dead would be: Dio, The Rev, Jimmy and Dimebag, and some bassist (it doesnt matter)
Rock on or die

Guitarist 5 years, Had purpose in life 5 years

Quote by angusfan16
My name is NOT Anus Fan!
#3
i read in a thread yesterday that the 440a(?) tuning that we use originated in nazi germany. might be true, might not. other countries use different notes and different intervals though, i belive
My sig? Nice.
#4
Quote by nirvanagrunge13
-I think the best band of the dead would be: Dio, The Rev, Jimmy and Dimebag, and some bassist (it doesnt matter)

i think modern man would explode if he heard them play together.
My sig? Nice.
#5
Those notes do exist. They just have a different name according to what scale you're in. Why? Because all the nifty little patterns we use to know and learn musical theory wouldn't work otherwise.
#6
Quote by Kraig82
I have a few little things that i've been pondering over about music, and I would like to have a little sharing session with you. Here we go:

-Why is it that there is no E#/Fb or B#/Cb until a sharp or flat scale is played? Do they just magically appear?
-How did the "notemakers" designate the notes that we know as such, and why that particular pitch?
-Is piano or guitar a better "bridging" instrument?

And finally:

If there is an afterlife, what kind of jam sessions would be going on? I mean look who you've got: Stevie Ray Vaughn, Jimi Hendrix, Freddie Mercury, Jon Bonham, Jim Morrison.... the list goes on and on and on. Think about it...

Blog Of Awesome UGers.
Quote by OddOneOut
I seem to attract girls.
Which is annoying, cos I'm a girl and I like cock.

Quote by IRISH_PUNK13
Being an idiot should be illegal too.
#7
Who cares about the Rev, Avenged Sevenfold isn't even good now. Every one of Sinister
Gates' solos sounds the same, some pentatonic and chromatic licks with some pinch harmonics and whammy work.

As to the E# thing, well in books it says crap about how there's not an F in the scale, there's and E# or some crap, which I totally believe is bull, seeing as THERE IS NO SUCH THING!!!!!!!!
That's a Bingo!!! Is that the way you say it? "Thats's a bingo?"

-Cols. Hans Landa AKA The Jew Hunter,
Inglourious Basterds
#8
Quote by Kraig82
Who cares about the Rev, Avenged Sevenfold isn't even good now. Every one of Sinister
Gates' solos sounds the same, some pentatonic and chromatic licks with some pinch harmonics and whammy work.

As to the E# thing, well in books it says crap about how there's not an F in the scale, there's and E# or some crap, which I totally believe is bull, seeing as THERE IS NO SUCH THING!!!!!!!!



you're such an angry young man.....
#9
Quote by Kraig82
Who cares about the Rev, Avenged Sevenfold isn't even good now. Every one of Sinister
Gates' solos sounds the same, some pentatonic and chromatic licks with some pinch harmonics and whammy work.

As to the E# thing, well in books it says crap about how there's not an F in the scale, there's and E# or some crap, which I totally believe is bull, seeing as THERE IS NO SUCH THING!!!!!!!!


There IS such thing, bro. You've got some more reading to do.
#10
Sort of, just logical
That's a Bingo!!! Is that the way you say it? "Thats's a bingo?"

-Cols. Hans Landa AKA The Jew Hunter,
Inglourious Basterds
#11
Quote by Kraig82
Sort of, just logical


You need to look up (or ask in these forums) why it sometimes makes more sense to say E# than it does to say F. There really is logic.
#12
From what I've read, they are simply to simplify an already simple thing.........

In other words, they're used to "stay within a key" and thus make it simpler for a musician to actually learn and form the scale, but despite that, what's the point?
That's a Bingo!!! Is that the way you say it? "Thats's a bingo?"

-Cols. Hans Landa AKA The Jew Hunter,
Inglourious Basterds
#13
Quote by Kraig82
From what I've read, they are simply to simplify an already simple thing.........

In other words, they're used to "stay within a key" and thus make it simpler for a musician to actually learn and form the scale, but despite that, what's the point?


Any scale consisting of 7 notes (most of them) is usually written using all 7 letters. So if I'm in the key of C# I would use C#-D#-E#-F#-G#-A#-B#-C#, and not C#-D#-F-F#-G#-A#-C-C#. Why? Because otherwise all of the patterns and tools learned in music theory make no sense and fall to shit.
#14
You need to write a major sixth and an augmented fifth above A on the same piece of sheet music to be played at the same time. How do you do it if there is no such thing as E♯?

EDIT: And if you read the post above and think about how what he's saying applies to sheet music then the logic should become even more clear.
Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at May 30, 2011,
#15
Quote by Kraig82
Who cares about the Rev, Avenged Sevenfold isn't even good now. Every one of Sinister
Gates' solos sounds the same, some pentatonic and chromatic licks with some pinch harmonics and whammy work.

As to the E# thing, well in books it says crap about how there's not an F in the scale, there's and E# or some crap, which I totally believe is bull, seeing as THERE IS NO SUCH THING!!!!!!!!

Are you the kind of person who doesn't believe in oxygen?
Blog Of Awesome UGers.
Quote by OddOneOut
I seem to attract girls.
Which is annoying, cos I'm a girl and I like cock.

Quote by IRISH_PUNK13
Being an idiot should be illegal too.
#16
♯ simply means raise the note one semitone - You can raise any note a semitone including E and B.

♭ means lower the note one semitone.

That is all those tags mean. It's not logical to say you can't lower a C by one semitone just because the resulting note can go by another name. Any note can go by another name.
Si
#17
Quote by nirvanagrunge13
-E# and b# (and the enharmonic counterparts of them) just dont exist
)


They do exist.

Whats a G# Major? G# B# D#

Whats an E Aug triad? E G# B#

Whats a C# Major triad? C# E# G#

What's an A Aug triad A C# E#

Whats an A#m triad then? A# C# E#

They do exist in many instances. In sheet music they would appear differently as well.

@Kraig82 - Believe what you want. They do exist. If you can't fathom their logic, thats fine, just widdle away and spread the word on how Ax7 sucks while we wait for your album that will change the world.

If I were one that cared about sigging ignorant remarks like the one below you'd be the winner:

"As to the E# thing, well in books it says crap about how there's not an F in the scale, there's and E# or some crap, which I totally believe is bull, seeing as THERE IS NO SUCH THING!!!!!!!!"

^

Best,

Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at May 30, 2011,
#18
Quote by Venice King
Are you the kind of person who doesn't believe in oxygen?


I know one of those, only its wheat.

E# and B# exist in some scales, as stated above.

Have fun breathing what ever it is people who dont believe in oxygen breathe.
Understand nothing, in order to learn everything.

Quote by liampje
I can write a coherent tune ... But 3/4? I play rock, not polka.
#19
Quote by Kraig82
Who cares about the Rev, Avenged Sevenfold isn't even good now. Every one of Sinister
Gates' solos sounds the same, some pentatonic and chromatic licks with some pinch harmonics and whammy work.

As to the E# thing, well in books it says crap about how there's not an F in the scale, there's and E# or some crap, which I totally believe is bull, seeing as THERE IS NO SUCH THING!!!!!!!!

Spell out the C# major scale.
^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^


"To know the truth of history is to realize its ultimate myth and its inevitable ambiguity." Everything is made up and the facts don't matter.


MUSIC THEORY LINK
#20
Vocals- Bon Scott
Lead Guitar- Jimi Hendrix
Lead Guitar- Randy Rhoads
Rhythm guitar- Kurt Cobain
Bass- Cliff Burton
Drums- Keith Moon
Backup singers- Freddie Mercury, Janis Joplin
Quote by AlanHB
It's the same as all other harmony. Surround yourself with skulls and candles if it helps.
#21
Quote by 91RG350
Vocals- Bon Scott
Lead Guitar- Jimi Hendrix
Lead Guitar- Randy Rhoads
Rhythm guitar- Kurt Cobain
Bass- Cliff Burton
Drums- Keith Moon
Backup singers- Freddie Mercury, Janis Joplin


I know that posting this here was obviously an accident, but how dare you suggest Freddie Mercury be back up to anybody?!
#22
Quote by BurningTurkey
i read in a thread yesterday that the 440a(?) tuning that we use originated in nazi germany. might be true, might not. other countries use different notes and different intervals though, i belive



This is an internet rumor.

"In 1936 the American Standards Association recommended that the A above middle C be tuned to 440 Hz. This standard was taken up by the International Organization for Standardization in 1955 (reaffirmed by them in 1975) as ISO 16."


It started as an American standard.

Some cathedral organs around Europe will play A above middle C at different pitches and music performed in churches will accommodate. However, orchestral music will almost always be played at A 440 and instruments are manufactured all over the word to play at A 440 with little or no adjustment (think of wind and brass instruments where significant retuning requires fitting the instruments with a special mouthpiece or tubing).

Yes, different local standards were in place prior to the 20th century -- often based on the tuning of a local cathedral's organ. But fixed pitch instruments made in the last century are ready to play at A 440 with minor adjustments for altitude and humidity.
#23
Quote by Kraig82
I have a few little things that i've been pondering over about music, and I would like to have a little sharing session with you. Here we go:
..

-How did the "notemakers" designate the notes that we know as such, and why that particular pitch?
...


Read about Helmholtz, solfege, Guido d'Arezzo .. etc etc etc

A number of countries still use Do Re Mi.

Germans use H for what we call B and B for what we call Bb.

The Guidonian hand used a mnemonic based on a medieval Latin hymn and is the basis for the names of musical pitches we use in Britain and the US.
#24
Quote by Macabre_Turtle
I know that posting this here was obviously an accident, but how dare you suggest Freddie Mercury be back up to anybody?!


This is my version of the dream band in heaven as suggested by TS

I did think long and hard about putting Freddy up front.... but the decision to give Bon the gig stands!
Quote by AlanHB
It's the same as all other harmony. Surround yourself with skulls and candles if it helps.
#25
Quote by Kraig82
-Why is it that there is no E#/Fb or B#/Cb until a sharp or flat scale is played? Do they just magically appear?
This is a convention. Macabre_Turtle is right. Each of the seven letters should be used exactly once. Sharps and flats are added to observe the correct intervals for each key. And except for the unisone, which is not part of a scale, every interval requires a different note name. The underlying reason is that every note of a scale is based on another one.
-How did the "notemakers" designate the notes that we know as such, and why that particular pitch?
It's all based on physics: wave theory. The ancient greeks discovered that there is a relation between relative lengths of vibrating strings and the tones they produce that sound good together. There are records of just intonation systems long before the greeks, but they came up with the pentatonic scale and the modes.

The pitch is not really important, as long as the note frequencies are based on a reference pitch. For a long while each city or even each concert hall had its own reference pitch. At some point it was decided that all reference A pitches should be set to 440Hz. The American Standards Organization was actually instumental in this.
-Is piano or guitar a better "bridging" instrument?
I'm not sure what you mean by bridging. If you mean to teach yourself music in general, I'm biased to say the piano. It depends on your budget, the space you have, and most important which instrument sound you prefer. Both are excellent to learn music theory.
If there is an afterlife, what kind of jam sessions would be going on?
It depends what religion you're talking. Hendrix didn't believe in heaven or hell. Freddie Mercury was a homosexual, so if the Christian faith won, he's not playing upstairs. Jim Morrison believed in shamanism, so he's out too. John Bonham was a catholic, but which church?

Since most religions are exclusive, there's a big chance that the best jam sessions take place in hell. Maybe that's where we should be heading. ;-)