#1
I'm curious about how they are able to fit the song perfectly with the movie.
Do the get to view the movie before, or get an idea of what it's all about?
I'm currently listening to the Inception soundtrack and it's so perfect!

So how do they do it?
#2
I would assume they watch the scene then write music that fits the scene in time with what's happening.
#3
Ever see Forgetting Sarah Marshall? The guy does that for a living, and he watches the scene then writes the music.
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#5
yeah it's superimposed over the shots as far as i know, i think sometimes there can be leeway with making bits a second longer or shorter if it's needed, although you could always speed up the music too if it's film music. i don't really know, but that's what i hope to do when i grow up (more), that's not a good sign.....

edit: a LOT of it is thematic material. it's important to understand theory and orchestration and be able to make the one melody sound different, convey slightly different moods etc, with the same notes. listen to the in bruges soundtrack or pan's labyrinth etc. it's the same melody over and over with different orchestration. quite interesting, it's like the modern sonata from/way to convey meaning in the music from existing music.
Last edited by gavk at May 31, 2011,
#6
When the film is cut, it is sent to the composer with no sound. The composer and director will discuss where and when music should be played, and what mood/style it should be in.

The composer will write most of the music when he has seen the picture, he might come up with some leitmotifs from looking at the script or by going off the directors description of characters but most of the music is composed in accordance to the visuals on screen. 99.99% of the time, the music is written to the film (the only example of this not happening was in the final chase scene in ET where after many takes of doing it to the visuals Steven Spielberg re-edited the scene to fit John Williams score, to let the music be natural and get the most out of the scene.

Gavk - In Bruges is a great film
#7
lol i'm actually from Bruges, kinda sucks here, with all these old buildings and stuff.

Anyway, thanks for the clear responses!
Last edited by toine at May 31, 2011,
#8
This is actually where we get the standard MP3 from.

the Motion Picture Expert Group defined several layers of encoding for digital video for cable and other forms of distribution.

1 layer is actual video
another layer is scene audio -- usually dialogue
yet another layer (the 3rd) is music

When John Williams got the pre-print of Star Wars he watched it, composed music and then assembled an orchestra in a studio with the film being projected and conducted the music -- just like it had been done way back when since motion pictures included a soundtrack.

Now it is all done in software -- well, the editing anyway.
#9
Quote by Zen Skin

When John Williams got the pre-print of Star Wars he watched it, composed music and then assembled an orchestra in a studio with the film being projected and conducted the music -- just like it had been done way back when since motion pictures included a soundtrack.


This would be so epic to watch
#10
I think there are many if not almost all movie that use two kind of musical elements.

1. Song instrumental or singing. Pop or another genre.

2. Music that imitates or supports the vibes of the scene or the things that happen.

Like a stringorchestra hit for a slammed door.

Or Violin on high range for screaming psychotic moments.

Drums for War and epic Landscape....impressions...

I guess there is a piece of creativity but also a lot of comformity...we are all conditioned....


The Question is what Movie it is.
A trash pop teenie film might need more songs. Punk Rock alt emo...etc...
but less things like György Ligeti....experimental....

Independent film will need more like this....wierd sounds for weird moods....

Hans Zimmer is a good example of how to be good at sounds and songs....

THe pirates song is just catchy and awesome....

The Dronebass of Inception is just emphasizing the feeling....
The Film is a Tripp and the Sound is just Perfect.....

So you need to know I guess where you wanna be more active....
The Sound is actually the more Moviemusicwriter-thing....
Because we all can write progressions and hit licks but a sounds is often not theorectical
Analyseable.....

Philip Glasses e.g. uses a lot of simple progression....only variates motifs....

The Subtile sound inside a movies is the magic. the Hit is just the harlot.

XD
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Last edited by BlackmetalGitar at May 31, 2011,
#11
Quote by toine
I'm curious about how they are able to fit the song perfectly with the movie.
Do the get to view the movie before, or get an idea of what it's all about?
I'm currently listening to the Inception soundtrack and it's so perfect!

So how do they do it?


according to an article i read about modern composition, usually film composers write according to the dialogue of the script. videogame composers write to the action (usually)
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#12
Quote by griffRG7321
When the film is cut, it is sent to the composer with no sound. The composer and director will discuss where and when music should be played, and what mood/style it should be in.

The composer will write most of the music when he has seen the picture, he might come up with some leitmotifs from looking at the script or by going off the directors description of characters but most of the music is composed in accordance to the visuals on screen. 99.99% of the time, the music is written to the film (the only example of this not happening was in the final chase scene in ET where after many takes of doing it to the visuals Steven Spielberg re-edited the scene to fit John Williams score, to let the music be natural and get the most out of the scene.

Gavk - In Bruges is a great film


========================================

Quote by Wikipedia
"Some of the music was written before the film, which is unusual. Leone's films were made like that because he wanted the music to be an important part of it, and he often kept the scenes longer simply because he didn't want the music to end. That's why the films are so slow - because of the music."

It also happened with A Fistfull of Dollars and its sequels.

(My post is formatted weird because the forum is spazing out a bit. It says my message is too short).
^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^


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Last edited by rockingamer2 at May 31, 2011,
#13
I'm not sure if you guys have ever checked out the "special features" section of a dvd before, but quite often there is a part which covers the music. It's quite clear that the music is written AFTER the final cut is made. It's extremely uncommon for everything from the script to be filmed, and everything filmed to make it into the final cut after editing. Once the "final cut" has been decided, then the post-production stages can start which include CGI, visual effects, mastering and (you guessed it) music. The director or composer may have some ideas in mind, but they have to make it fit the music.

Of course simply writing and playing the score to match the film is not the end of the process - anybody who's recorded professionally could tell you that.

Edit: And In Bruges, that movie was crap
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#14
I am a film scoring major, so this is totally my bag!

First of all, when writing for film, we can't really do anything until the late stages of productions because we have to wait until everyone else finishes shooting and editing. This means composers usually get the short end of the stick and has to haul ass to get it done before the street date, no matter how inconsiderate of time everyone else is.

When they finally do finish putting a work print of the movie together, we then sit down and watch it a few times through and start taking down notes regarding musical considerations: timings, moods, effects, purpose/function, and equally important, where NOT to write music.

After we get a good idea, then we start creating what's called a cue list, in which we pin down the exact timing for every cue (instance of music) down to the frame (based on SMPTE timecode).

Then we actually write the music based on all these plannings. Some people do it the traditional way by writing at the piano and writing a sketch score by hand or notation program. Others play into DAW's using MIDI directly to generate ideas. The actual goals of media music (films, ads, games, etc) are very different from absolute music (sonatas, symphonies, fugues, etc). The visual is the most important, and the music has to support it. In absolute music, the structure of the music is supremely important, and that is what we base the composition around.

In the modern environment, we are also expected to sequence the music into a DAW using MIDI and try to create as realistic of a performance as possible. This is called a mock-up. This is what we hand to the client so that they have an accurate impression of the music. In lower budget productions, the mock-up is often times the final product (eg Stargate SG-1 theme).

With a bigger budget/better musical appreciation, we are then able to hire an orchestra and record a real performance on the scoring stage. A conductor (often times the composer) has a screen which displays the videos as well as punches/streamers and click track to keep timing precise while conducting the ensemble. The recording then finally gets mixed, mastered, and then dubbed into the movie along with all other sounds.

Last but most importantly, we get $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


I have a few personal examples of the whole process if anyone is interested.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#15
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This would be so epic to watch

I hate Star Wars, but I agree; that would be awesome.
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#16
Quote by Xiaoxi
I am a film scoring major, so this is totally my bag!

First of all, when writing for film, we can't really do anything until the late stages of productions because we have to wait until everyone else finishes shooting and editing. This means composers usually get the short end of the stick and has to haul ass to get it done before the street date, no matter how inconsiderate of time everyone else is.

When they finally do finish putting a work print of the movie together, we then sit down and watch it a few times through and start taking down notes regarding musical considerations: timings, moods, effects, purpose/function, and equally important, where NOT to write music.

After we get a good idea, then we start creating what's called a cue list, in which we pin down the exact timing for every cue (instance of music) down to the frame (based on SMPTE timecode).

Then we actually write the music based on all these plannings. Some people do it the traditional way by writing at the piano and writing a sketch score by hand or notation program. Others play into DAW's using MIDI directly to generate ideas. The actual goals of media music (films, ads, games, etc) are very different from absolute music (sonatas, symphonies, fugues, etc). The visual is the most important, and the music has to support it. In absolute music, the structure of the music is supremely important, and that is what we base the composition around.

In the modern environment, we are also expected to sequence the music into a DAW using MIDI and try to create as realistic of a performance as possible. This is called a mock-up. This is what we hand to the client so that they have an accurate impression of the music. In lower budget productions, the mock-up is often times the final product (eg Stargate SG-1 theme).

With a bigger budget/better musical appreciation, we are then able to hire an orchestra and record a real performance on the scoring stage. A conductor (often times the composer) has a screen which displays the videos as well as punches/streamers and click track to keep timing precise while conducting the ensemble. The recording then finally gets mixed, mastered, and then dubbed into the movie along with all other sounds.

Last but most importantly, we get $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


I have a few personal examples of the whole process if anyone is interested.


Very interesting! Yes, i would love to see the process!
#17
Oh -- just a side note -- saw the film "Katyn" by Andrzej Wajda ... if you can deal with reading subtitles in two languages (whenever anyone speaks Russian or German the English subtitles get moved and Polish subtitles appear), the music is by Krzysztof Penderecki and is f'ing amazing.

Also -- if you do not know the story of the Katyn massacre -- it's good history.

Xiaoxi, please give us links??

Cheers!
#18
Example of a compiled cue sheet. This is the original cue sheet for Hellboy II. The "underscore" label is the one that require original music.



Setting up the scoring project and syncing the video so that I can pinpoint the exact timecodes and make markers for hitpoints.




After creating the musical and timing layout, I export the layout track to Sibelius to actually write the music and produce the score presentation. Video is synced here as well.



After I'm finished with writing, I export all tracks back to the DAW for the mock-up sequence. Here is where MIDI editing is done to get a real performance. In this shot I was finished with the editing for an orchestral sequence and now focusing on the mix.




The finished product:
http://vimeo.com/23199704
Compare that to the same video without music. Movies are so flat/awkward without it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxdZ5jtVXSs


Here's a mock-up of a cue from John William's ET:
http://soundcloud.com/xiaoxiwan/wan-xiaoxi-et-delivery


Practicing conducting to picture in front of a MIDI keyboard ensemble. Notice the timing signals in the film:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otlbsyArY84

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#20
Quote by Meelad360
Holy shit that's a lot of work.

Ya. A 2-5 minute cue from start to finish could take 10-20 hours. The average movie needs about 50-70 minutes of aggregate music....


...modes and scales are still useless.


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#21
Quote by Xiaoxi
Example of a compiled cue sheet. This is the original cue sheet for Hellboy II. The "underscore" label is the one that require original music.

And pics


You wouldn't believe how close I was to deleting this message and banning you as a spambot, it just looks the same

Otherwise interesting stuff! Hellboy 2 rocks, really hope they conclude the trilogy.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#22
Here is something I found on Youtube:

The Process of Film Scoring

And another http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlkqqtjfbzE&feature=related

Just look around Youtube for stuff.

This story may be in one of the videos, but it is a great example of film scoring.

The composer had seen a clip which involved the protagonist falling on something. There were a few frames that showed some part of the crew/equipment, just barely. They figured it was fine since the attention of the audience was directed to something else.
Recording time comes and they eventually find out that the music is not syncing up with the movie. They try and figure out what was wrong, turns out those few frames showing the crew/equipment were cut out of the film. It screwed up the timing of the music. The composer then quickly goes and fixes the problem, all the while the orchestra is sitting in the recording room, getting paid for their time. That small mistake added a lot of money to the cost of recording, since every member is getting paid handsomely. Now multiply that by a whole orchestra.
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#23
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You wouldn't believe how close I was to deleting this message and banning you as a spambot, it just looks the same


...modes and scales are still useless.


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#24
Quote by rockingamer2
Here is something I found on Youtube:

The Process of Film Scoring

That's my professor!! Reminds me I have some assignment due for his class tomorrow...


The composer had seen a clip which involved the protagonist falling on something. There were a few frames that showed some part of the crew/equipment, just barely. They figured it was fine since the attention of the audience was directed to something else.
Recording time comes and they eventually find out that the music is not syncing up with the movie. They try and figure out what was wrong, turns out those few frames showing the crew/equipment were cut out of the film. It screwed up the timing of the music. The composer then quickly goes and fixes the problem, all the while the orchestra is sitting in the recording room, getting paid for their time. That small mistake added a lot of money to the cost of recording, since every member is getting paid handsomely. Now multiply that by a whole orchestra.

Yep, it's a very tough industry. You literally can't afford to make a single mistake. 1 wrong note in somebody's part = thousands of dollars lost. That's why we have to be extremely meticulous.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#25
Quote by Xiaoxi


It looks like it was made on the same template as a bot telling us how to rip dvds.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#26
Quote by AlanHB
It looks like it was made on the same template as a bot telling us how to rip dvds.

Ah, now I know I'm supposed to feel insulted.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#27
Quote by Xiaoxi
That's my professor!! Reminds me I have some assignment due for his class tomorrow...


Yep, it's a very tough industry. You literally can't afford to make a single mistake. 1 wrong note in somebody's part = thousands of dollars lost. That's why we have to be extremely meticulous.

Brilliant!

As is In Bruges TS

The best soundtrack I think I've ever heard is for a horror film called Mirrors, it wasn't a particularly good film but it had Asturias by Albeniz playing throughout, was really fitting. Music wasn't original but didn't matter.
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