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#1
Hey Guys, I`m with a terrible problem, decide witch tube amp to buy.
1. i´m a bedroom player, sometimes playing with a band, small shows, that´s why I think in a 15 or 20w amp.

2. I play metallica and others metal bands.

3. Looking for an Amp Head to play METAL, a high-gain all tube amp, until 15/20w

4. I have some in mind, but you can suggest more. ENGL e315 gigmaster 15w , H&K Tubemeister 18w , Orange Dark Terror 15w , Vox Night Train 15w.
#2
for the metal id have to say the ENGL i want one soooo bad.
for playing with a band i think it would be ok.
small shows should be fine
and obviously big shows would have to be mic'd
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#3
Night train WONT do metal, I'd go the engle or H&K.

also a 15w amp while able to play shows at that volume will start getting into power tube distortion, which is not desirable for metal.

Bigger amps can be used at home, they have volume knobs so you can turn them down.

and finally it'd be a huge help if you have us your budget
#4
my dual terror can hang with the big boys (in my studio splawns), and do quite well as long as you don't want sparkeling cleans, i say DT.
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#5
Orange or ENGL.

Other choices are invalid.

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#6
-Old Monkeys: "start getting into power tube distortion, which is not desirable for metal."


Why not?

Talking about money, I have something arround 600 EUROS, foget to say I´ll buy in Europe.
Last edited by vinascardoso at Jun 1, 2011,
#7
Because power tube distortion will give you a warmer, looser sounding distortion, which is generally the opposite of what you want for metal.
#9
Wattage has very little to do with perceived volume as well.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Feel free to express yours so I can make an informed judgement about how stupid you are.
#11
The ENGL will probably suit you best, although I haven't heard of that H&K until now. Still, IMO the Gigmaster is the way to go.
#12
I read something about ENGL gigmaster 15w could not be an ALL tube amp, but a hybrid, is this true?
#13
Blackstar HT-20
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#14
I´ve seen othres, it will be good?

1.Hayden Mofo 112 30w
2. Blackstar ht-20 20w
3. Engnater rebel 20w

Just to remember that it is for METAL.
#15
Get a JCA20 with a boost, you'll get as much high gain as you need.

There's also the ENGL Gigmaster to consider. If you can fork out the moolah, you can also look at the Mesa TransAtlantic 15 for the singing gain.

Quote by vinascardoso
I´ve seen othres, it will be good?

1.Hayden Mofo 112 30w
2. Blackstar ht-20 20w
3. Engnater rebel 20w

Just to remember that it is for METAL.


The Hayden Mofo is a mid-gain amp, I liked it a lot for the blooz and sparkling cleans, but you'd need a powerful OD or front end push to get it for the brootz.

The Blackstar 20 is quite an aweseom amp. Definitely worth considering, I think it has got good enough gain for early metal, but you might need a TS9 to push it for modern high gain, altho some people feel it has got enough gain for metal as it is.

The Egnater Rebel 20 again will need a TS9 to OD its front end for metal.

Also I forgot, you can look at the Krank Rev Jr Pro 20, by itself it has got more than enough gain for death metal. Although it takes a bit of tinkering to get a good tone due to the sensitivity of its Sweep knob. Also its tone can be a little divisive, some people like it some don't.

The other issue with the Krank is that its clean channel can be a little dry and lacking in sparkle, but no other amp compares to it for high gain without a boost. Def one of the best high gain amp in the 20 watt range.
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Last edited by ragingkitty at Jun 1, 2011,
#16
Quote by vinascardoso
I read something about ENGL gigmaster 15w could not be an ALL tube amp, but a hybrid, is this true?



yeah i think so. I mean it only has one 12ax7 preamp tube. At they very least, it'd need to have two 12ax7s to be all-tube (one for the phase inverter and one for the preamp), assuming it didn't have one of those older-style PI designs which can work with only one triode.

Plus with the amount of gain it has, again for it to be all-tube it'd probably need another preamp tube to get that much gain.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
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Et tu, br00tz?
#17
Blackstars ht series are pretty similar to the gigmaster apparently as well.. with the solid state clipping thing as well..

honestly if you can go for a higher wattage amp (have the room for it/afford it - there are many affordable options used though) do it. My peavey ultra plus has yet to leave my bedroom and thats a 120 watt tube amp and it sounds great for metal at house friendly volumes... People blow these things out of proportion a bit.. EVEN at low volumes if i whack it on its half power switch i just loose a bit of low end.. not much volume. high wattage amps just sound better for metal IMO and certain ones do sound great at bedroom levels. I mean most do benefit from being turned up a tad on the master so they are able to breath a bit but alot still sound great at house levels.
Last edited by coolstoryangus at Jun 1, 2011,
#18
Bad for me then, I can not afford one xT Based on othesr said above, the Krank Rev Jr Pro 20w, the Blackstar HT-20 and the H&K Tubemeister could be good options, Lets restrict to these three, witch one do you prefer?
Last edited by vinascardoso at Jun 1, 2011,
#19
i haven't tried any of those, but i think the krank one might actually be all-tube.

now obviously that doesn't matter if it sucks and sounds worse than the others, lol.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#20
I don't think anyone has heard the H&K yet, so if you buy, you'll be going in blind methinks. Although admittedly the features are really interesting and it does seem quite powerful, altho that can be due to the creative marketing.

Between the Blackstar and the Krank, you really have to try them yourself. The Krank really has a love it or hate it tone, whereas the Blackstar seems to be more generally well-liked.

IN comparison, while the Blackstar has the ISF feature, the Krank has a Sweep knob that will allow you to shift the mid range focus.

IMO both amps are fairly versatile, it really depends on which tone you prefer.

Quote by Dave_Mc
i haven't tried any of those, but i think the krank one might actually be all-tube.

now obviously that doesn't matter if it sucks and sounds worse than the others, lol.


The Krank is all tube, but it uses a solid-state rectification, so take what you will. I liked it when I liked the tone, but it kinda fell out of favour after I got my Mesa. That said, it is being compared to a Mesa Mark V, so YMMV.

One thing is for sure tho, the Krank channel can really bring the br00talz. I'd go as far as to say that it can definitely go toe to toe with my MkV's channel 3.

Of course, like I said the tone of the Krank can be really really divisive, hence preference for this amp is really a YMMV issue.
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Last edited by ragingkitty at Jun 1, 2011,
#21
far as i'm concerned ss rectification is fine. it's the signal path where the problems are. I mean if you're after high gain you probably don't want tube rectification.

But agreed about kranks' being a bit polarising- i haven't tried the jr, but i tried the (older version) of the rev and krankenstein and didn't like them much.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#23
buy a used mesa boogie dc2 or 3. i´ve bought one some weeks ago and it is a very good amp for metal. very good tone.
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#24
Hey guys, I liked very much the tone and the gain of Krank Rev Jr Pro 20w, but in the website forum of krank they suggest the Krankeinstein Jr 20w to play Metallica, what do you think? is it a good amp too?
#25
Dave_Mc : "far as i'm concerned ss rectification is fine. it's the signal path where the problems are. I mean if you're after high gain you probably don't want tube rectification."

So, witch one do you suggest man?
#26
Most inexpensive "metal" amps in the sub-20 watt range are going to have some opamp trickery, just a fact of life. Usually can't get that kind of preamp gain in such a tiny package. Thus the prevalence of Blackstar amps.

There are some well designed low watt pure tube amps that are suitable for high gain, however. Orange DT would probably get you there. Krank Rev Jr would definitely get you there. Jet City JCA22H would definitely get you there as soon as it comes out.
#28
when you're in a bedroom situation, it doesnt matter whether you have 15 watts or 500 watts, you wont be able to crank them either way; even 1/4 of a watt is way too loud to turn up comfortably at bedroom volume. just get an amp that sounds good to you and suits your needs, regardless of wattage, since at bedroom volume no amp will reach saturation anyway, so wattage is nothing to worry about; wattage is only worth paying attention to when you'll be playing at gigging volumes and you're deciding whether you want an amp that will break up or stay clean/tight at those volumes
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#29
Quote by vinascardoso
What about the Krankeinstein Jr 20w?


I'd take the the Rev Jr Pro over the Krankenstein Jr any day. The Krankenstein is basically a Rev+ (which is the head the Rev Jr Pro is based on), re-voiced to Dimebag's preference for his tone in his latest band (Damageplan IIRC). The Rev+ and the Rev Jr Pro were essentially Krank's flagship product, and the one they were promoting very strongly when they first started off.

Personally I found the Krankenstein too beefy, too meaty. I know its hard to atttach sonic differences to the terms beefy and meaty, but that's how the Krankenstein sounds to me... beefy.

Essentially I found the Krankenstein TOO oriented towards Dimebag's sound. I didn't find it's voicing character very versatile.

That said, YMMV.

Quote by nutinpwnsgibson
when you're in a bedroom situation, it doesnt matter whether you have 15 watts or 500 watts, you wont be able to crank them either way; even 1/4 of a watt is way too loud to turn up comfortably at bedroom volume. just get an amp that sounds good to you and suits your needs, regardless of wattage, since at bedroom volume no amp will reach saturation anyway, so wattage is nothing to worry about; wattage is only worth paying attention to when you'll be playing at gigging volumes and you're deciding whether you want an amp that will break up or stay clean/tight at those volumes


True, but in this situation, most metal genres don't really need power amp distortion.

However, I'd like to point out that for the Krank amps, below level 3 - 4, the amps can sound a little thin and fizzy.

While at Level 3 (not 3 o'clock), the amp is really starting to sound really good, setting the master at 3 is still a somewhat comfortable home level, it will be too loud if you're playing at night.
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#31
Quote by vinascardoso
Anyone else knows the Jet City JCA22H??? What to say about it?


Not out yet AFAIK.

It's a "revision" of the JCA20H, which is fairly popular. The 22 is 2 channels and has an effects loop. The second channel is based on the Soldano SLO100.
#32
Quote by vinascardoso
Dave_Mc : "far as i'm concerned ss rectification is fine. it's the signal path where the problems are. I mean if you're after high gain you probably don't want tube rectification."

So, witch one do you suggest man?


no idea, i've only tried very few of them. far as i'm aware, all of the ones listed have ss rectification. obviously ss recftification doesn't necessarily mean an amp is aimed at metal (LOL).

Quote by Seref
(a) Most inexpensive "metal" amps in the sub-20 watt range are going to have some opamp trickery, just a fact of life. Usually can't get that kind of preamp gain in such a tiny package. Thus the prevalence of Blackstar amps.

(b) There are some well designed low watt pure tube amps that are suitable for high gain, however. Orange DT would probably get you there. Krank Rev Jr would definitely get you there. Jet City JCA22H would definitely get you there as soon as it comes out.


(a) well you can, but it's expensive. and most manufacturers figure that at that kind of money most people would probably just plump for the 50 or 100 watter. Plus the whole needing headroom for metal thing, a lot of players might prefer the tone of the 100 watter anyway, even at lower volumes.

That's probably what you meant, though, and you just didn't bother to type it out

(b) yeah those'd probably be the ones to look at, if you do want it to be all-tube (i haven't tried any of them, though ).
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#33
Not sure if they ship to other countries, but the Carvin V3M would be a great choice.
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#34
Quote by ragingkitty



True, but in this situation, most metal genres don't really need power amp distortion.

However, I'd like to point out that for the Krank amps, below level 3 - 4, the amps can sound a little thin and fizzy.

While at Level 3 (not 3 o'clock), the amp is really starting to sound really good, setting the master at 3 is still a somewhat comfortable home level, it will be too loud if you're playing at night.


my point wasn't that all amps are going to sound bad since you can't turn them up, its just that ts should get an amp regardless of wattage; if it sounds good at bedroom volumes and its 120 watts go for it, if it sounds good at bedroom volumes and its 15 watts go for it
periphery/bulb!

gear:
Ibanez RG7321 w/ D-sonic in bridge

Peavey 5150 mk ii & b52 4x12 cab

line 6 podxt for recording

Quote by AsOneIStand
Head and Cab for $130? You don't need a head and cabinet, you need a psychological examination.
#35
Carvin V3M vs. Jet City JCA22H

Some Help please, terrible doubt! hauhauhauhauahu

Just to remeber, METAL tone, like Metallica.
Last edited by vinascardoso at Jun 2, 2011,
#36
Quote by nutinpwnsgibson
my point wasn't that all amps are going to sound bad since you can't turn them up, its just that ts should get an amp regardless of wattage; if it sounds good at bedroom volumes and its 120 watts go for it, if it sounds good at bedroom volumes and its 15 watts go for it


Ah fair enough, then I'm in strong agreement with you on this point. Esp getting the amp for what it is regardless of its wattage.

Quote by vinascardoso
Carvin V3M vs. Jet City JCA22H

Some Help please, terrible doubt! hauhauhauhauahu

Just to remeber, METAL tone, like Metallica.


OK, then when's Metallica? We can be talking about a ProCo Rat boosted JCM 800, A Mesa Boogie MkIII, a Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier, a Randall.

Why not consider on of the Randall MTS series and then getting the MTS preamps to get the sounds you want?
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#39
Surprised no one's posted these yet:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6ruiUprMt4&hd=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fDoe2t42gw

EDIT: Between the two, the V3M is the only one that I've heard extensive demos of. The 22H hasn't had as many demos. The V3 sounds pretty good.

For MoP I think the Jet City might be the way to go still. Soldano started hot rodding Marshalls and then started building circuits, so you can get a sort of similar vibe to that early boosted and scooped Marshall with a Jet City.
Last edited by Seref at Jun 2, 2011,
#40
Someone knows if the also new H&K tumemeister 18 can be used for metal tone? it seems very useful to me because of the wattage switch function and the quality of a H&K that is excelent...
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