#1
Hello all.

This song by Paul Gilbert scarified has got this weird thing in the first lead line.
It's that he plays a major triad then moves the root one half step up and made it a dim.
Is this just an accidental, or is there a story behind the whole thing?
Also where would I find this in anything else, I think classical.
Cya!
#2
...here we go.... haha only joking. what is the next note he moves to? chances are he's going Major-Dim-Major/minor with the diminished chord acting as, well either a diminished chord, or a dominant 7th in a new key, i don't know the song but my guess would be on the supertonic? it's just a V-I (or vii*-I) in another key, but a funky way o doing it. and yes there's LOTS of this in classical music, check, well just about anything.

edit: look for pivot chords. we could look at the first chord as I, but how about looking at it as VII? then we have VII-vii*/V7-I in the new key? sound ok?
Last edited by gavk at Jun 1, 2011,
#3
Quote by gavk
...here we go.... haha only joking. what is the next note he moves to? chances are he's going Major-Dim-Major/minor with the diminished chord acting as, well either a diminished chord, or a dominant 7th in a new key, i don't know the song but my guess would be on the supertonic? it's just a V-I (or vii*-I) in another key, but a funky way o doing it. and yes there's LOTS of this in classical music, check, well just about anything.

edit: look for pivot chords. we could look at the first chord as I, but how about looking at it as VII? then we have VII-vii*/V7-I in the new key? sound ok?

He plays D major to D# dim and then E major to E#dim then he makes a bend from E to F# then a rest comes and he plays something else.
#5
Well, the tune is in F#m, so it's VI viiº/VII VII viiº i. This kind of harmonic motion is common in sequences - Gilbert plays a partial sequence here (he plays full sequences in other parts of the tune). The E natural is used as a delay of resolution in a kind of blues-style (as opposed to the E# going straight to F#), with a whole-step bend up to F#.

The chromatic notes are NOT passing tones (as they are chord members); they are temporary leading tones pointing to the next chord. This is commonly called tonicization. Again, the way Gilbert uses it here is sequential.
#6
I believe the term for that is "Secondary Leading Tone Chords".
Because deep down, I know you want to:

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Constructive criticism is always welcomed.
#7
Look at the key. Look at the chords. Look at the notes he plays, see any connection?

Also I'm still waiting for that analysis of Knocking on Heavens Door.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#8
Quote by Harmosis
Well, the tune is in F#m, so it's VI viiº/VII VII viiº i. This kind of harmonic motion is common in sequences - Gilbert plays a partial sequence here (he plays full sequences in other parts of the tune). The E natural is used as a delay of resolution in a kind of blues-style (as opposed to the E# going straight to F#), with a whole-step bend up to F#.

The chromatic notes are NOT passing tones (as they are chord members); they are temporary leading tones pointing to the next chord. This is commonly called tonicization. Again, the way Gilbert uses it here is sequential.


THIS ^^^ +1
#9
Im guessing you mean the the part that goes D, D#dim7, E, E#dim7 F#m...

Simple chromaticism, the diminished 7ths resolve by step, a nice build up. The following melody is a harmonization of a Bach prelude if i remember correctly.
#10
Quote by Harmosis
Well, the tune is in F#m, so it's VI viiº/VII VII viiº i. This kind of harmonic motion is common in sequences - Gilbert plays a partial sequence here (he plays full sequences in other parts of the tune). The E natural is used as a delay of resolution in a kind of blues-style (as opposed to the E# going straight to F#), with a whole-step bend up to F#.

The chromatic notes are NOT passing tones (as they are chord members); they are temporary leading tones pointing to the next chord. This is commonly called tonicization. Again, the way Gilbert uses it here is sequential.


this is quite common, the dim chord can also lead to a ii-7 chord, "Have You Met Miss Jones" is a good example note that this does not imply a modulation
#11
Quote by AlanHB
Look at the key. Look at the chords. Look at the notes he plays, see any connection?

Also I'm still waiting for that analysis of Knocking on Heavens Door.

He makes a chromatic line with the roots.
And on who are you still waiting for an analysis of knocking on heavens door?
I never said I was going to but perhaps I'll try.
#13
Quote by liampje
He makes a chromatic line with the roots.
And on who are you still waiting for an analysis of knocking on heavens door?
I never said I was going to but perhaps I'll try.


Oh I requested it ages ago in another thread of yours. It would be good to see how you go with something simple before you go for advanced stuff.

Notice how the chords also progress chromatically?
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#15
Its a bunch of V-I modulations after the first chord. The dim7 chord is built off the M3 of the V7 preceding the next major chord.

I can be thought of as D->B7->E->C#7->F# etc...

It's a common vehicle in Jazz, albiet the target chords are more diatonic in jazz.
Last edited by MikeDodge at Jun 2, 2011,
#16
Quote by liampje
I hear alot of classical stuff happening here.
Can anyone give me a link to a solid basic of classical music.

Classical, you say? I think you'd enjoy barock music like Bach. His work with Skid Row was great.
#17
Quote by Jesse Clarkson
Classical, you say? I think you'd enjoy barock music like Bach. His work with Skid Row was great.


...not sure if srs...
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