#1
Budget? - $300-$400

Genres? - Fuzzy indie rock, ala Dinosaur Jr, Mudhoney

New or Used? - As long as it is in good condition, it can be used.

Home or Gig? - Mostly at home

Closest City? - Chicago, IL

Current Gear? - Fender J Mascis Jazzmaster, Fender Hotrod Deluxe, EHX Germanium OD, EHX Big Muff

I'm looking for a Low-Watt, High-Gain tube amp head. One that does NOT sound "METAL". Something with an almost fuzz-like crunch and a very warm, intact low-end would be awesome. Just so you know how un-metal I'm talking, I play a Jazzmaster... I don't think I've ever seen anyone "shred" on a Jazzmaster.

I'm thinking something that gives a sound like Black Sabbath, Kyuss, or Mudhoney (with the help of a Big Muff of course). I know I named two bands that are considered metal, but come on... they aren't squealing away at a B.C. Rich. They were the only bands I could think of that have a nice fuzzy sound without pedals.

I'm currently looking into the Orange Tiny Terror (7/15 watts)... would this fit that definition or am I on the wrong track? I've seen them go as low as $300 on eBay and that would be a good price for me. If you have any suggestions of something that would be just as plentiful on eBay...it would be appreciated.

Sidenote: I do not need a "clean" sound period and I have a very jangly guitar if that helps anything.
Last edited by poopiedeloopie at Jun 1, 2011,
#2
Quote by poopiedeloopie
I'm looking for a Low-Watt, High-Gain tube amp head. One that does NOT sound "METAL". Something with an almost fuzz-like crunch and a very warm, intact low-end would be awesome. Just so you know how un-metal I'm talking, I play a Jazzmaster... I don't think I've ever seen anyone "shred" on a Jazzmaster.

I'm thinking something that gives a sound like Black Sabbath, Kyuss, or Mudhoney (with the help of a Big Muff of course). I know I named two bands that are considered metal, but come on... they aren't squealing away at a B.C. Rich.

I'm currently looking into the Orange Tiny Terror (7/15 watts)... would this fit that definition or am I on the wrong track? I've seen them go as low as $300 on eBay and that would be a good price for me. If you have any suggestions of something that would be just as plentiful on eBay...it would be appreciated.

P.S. I will be running this head through my Fender Hot Rod Deluxe.


or do you just mean the speaker section? if so make sure you know how to set that up

gigging?
location?
new/used?
budget?
periphery/bulb!

gear:
Ibanez RG7321 w/ D-sonic in bridge

Peavey 5150 mk ii & b52 4x12 cab

line 6 podxt for recording

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#3
Quote by nutinpwnsgibson
or do you just mean the speaker section? if so make sure you know how to set that up

gigging?
location?
new/used?
budget?


It has an effects loop and someone told me that I could use that to plug an amp head into. Are they horribly wrong?

Gigging: Yes, but I will probably just be using this head at home and recording only. My Hot Rod Deluxe is way too loud at home and doesn't have a good dirty section, so I'm mainly looking to remedy those two.
Location: Chicago area.
New/used: New or great condition
Budget: About $300-$400

I'm looking to avoid Craigs List and skew more towards eBay, I've had great luck with eBay for guitar gear over the years.

I'm mainly looking for company/model names to check out that fit the bill.
Last edited by poopiedeloopie at Jun 1, 2011,
#4
Quote by poopiedeloopie
It has an effects loop and someone told me that I could use that to plug an amp head into. Are they horribly wrong?

Gigging: Yes, but I will probably just be using this head at home and recording only. My Hot Rod Deluxe is way too loud at home and doesn't have a good dirty section, so I'm mainly looking to remedy those two.
Location: Chicago area.
New/used: New or great condition
Budget: About $300-$400

I'm looking to avoid Craigs List and skew more towards eBay, I've had great luck with eBay for guitar gear over the years.

I'm mainly looking for company/model names to check out that fit the bill.

yes it is totaly wrong, you will need to go directly to the speaker,not in the f/x loop.
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#5
Quote by Robbgnarly
yes it is totaly wrong, you will need to go directly to the speaker,not in the f/x loop.


Dammit. Is that something that is fairly complex to do? I feel like such a guitar-noob right now
#6
Not at all, provided the amp has the speaker connected by a speaker cable.
Current Gear:
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Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#7
not realy, got to your local store and tell them that your wanting to make you speaker unhookable if it isn't already?not extreamly familiar with fender amps. But they should get you the parts pretty cheap.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#9
On a lot of combos there is a visible cable at the back connecting the amp to the speaker. You can use that cable to plug in an amp head. Not the FX loop.

Try the vox night train. There's a low watt model. Its got the tight bottom end you're looking for but isn't what you'd call fuzzy. I would say its warm though.
#10
You can also go from the FX send (or line out) of the head into the FX return of the Fender. Just don't plug the speaker outs of an amp into the input of anything but a speaker.
It's rather pointless though, don't you want the power amp from the head to be driving the speakers and not the power amp of the Fender? Just make up a cable with a phono on one end and spade connectors on the other and go straight from head to the speakers themselves.
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Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at Jun 1, 2011,
#11
Quote by Icarus Lives
On a lot of combos there is a visible cable at the back connecting the amp to the speaker. You can use that cable to plug in an amp head. Not the FX loop.

Try the vox night train. There's a low watt model. Its got the tight bottom end you're looking for but isn't what you'd call fuzzy. I would say its warm though.


I looked at PGS's video of the Vox Night Train ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxL04_EKUdI&NR=1 ) and I don't think its what I'm looking for. I know its a bad habit to judge things based on youtube demo videos, but sometimes its the only way. Does this video just not do a good job at showing the sound I'm talking about or does this demo do a pretty spot-on job at showing what the amp can do?
#12
Quote by Cathbard
You can also go from the FX send (or line out) of the head into the FX return of the Fender. Just don't plug the speaker outs of an amp into the input of anything but a speaker.
It's rather pointless though, don't you want the power amp from the head to be driving the speakers and not the power amp of the Fender? Just make up a cable with a phono on one end and spade connectors on the other and go straight from head to the speakers themselves.


What I was thinking was... not using the line out at all and just putting the amp head through the FX return, but I don't know anything about Amps and apparently thats not possible
#13
The Orange Dual Terror?
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#14
Quote by ragingkitty
The Orange Dual Terror?


That is the higher priced version of the Tiny Terror, correct? What are the noticeable differences? I need to keep my rig at bedroom level though, does it have a 7 watt mode?
#15
Quote by poopiedeloopie
That is the higher priced version of the Tiny Terror, correct? What are the noticeable differences? I need to keep my rig at bedroom level though, does it have a 7 watt mode?

I belive its the 2 ch version.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#17
Quote by polishedbullet
I'd get a decent fuzz pedal and just pair it up with a Tiny Terror. Should work just fine for what you're looking for.


Sweet. I can only imagine how great a bigmuff would sound through a Tiny Terror with both at full gain. Sweet, sweet, fuzzy, muffly bliss
#18
high gain but not metal does not compute.

I guess have fun with your high gain blues
Guitars
Amps
#19
Quote by poopiedeloopie
That is the higher priced version of the Tiny Terror, correct? What are the noticeable differences? I need to keep my rig at bedroom level though, does it have a 7 watt mode?


O.o erm, we're here to help, not spoon-feed, a simple question like "does it have a 7 watt mode" could have easily been googled.

Whatever the case, the DT is basically double the wattage of the Tiny Terror. It also has several step-down wattages, I'll leave the exact research up to you.

In any case, the difference between the DT's several wattages is not going to have a massively perceivable difference in volume levels. What you'll have is difference in headroom.

Higher wattage = more headroom
Lower wattage = less headroom

Just so you know, 20 watts does not have double the volume of 10 watts.
Quote by Blompcube
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#20
Quote by ragingkitty
O.o erm, we're here to help, not spoon-feed, a simple question like "does it have a 7 watt mode" could have easily been googled.

Whatever the case, the DT is basically double the wattage of the Tiny Terror. It also has several step-down wattages, I'll leave the exact research up to you.

In any case, the difference between the DT's several wattages is not going to have a massively perceivable difference in volume levels. What you'll have is difference in headroom.

Higher wattage = more headroom
Lower wattage = less headroom

Just so you know, 20 watts does not have double the volume of 10 watts.


I wasn't really asking, I was more hinting at the fact that it might be a bit too much wattage. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I don't need any headroom at all since I just want it for its dirty channel.

So the Tiny Terror would be quieter than my current 40 watt Fender Deluxe though the same speaker, right?
#21
Quote by Matt15f
high gain but not metal does not compute.

I guess have fun with your high gain blues


Is it really that much of an oxymoron? And when I say "metal" I'm talking about Pantera and stuff not Classic Heavy Metal from the 70s. Theres a very large difference between those two in my eyes. Theres also great bands like Dinosaur Jr.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLIPTOUH51I
Last edited by poopiedeloopie at Jun 1, 2011,
#22
Santana uses stacks of gain in his solos to get all that natural compression he's famous for and that's hardly metal.
Gilchrist custom
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Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#23
This thread makes my brain hurt...

When I think high gain, the bands that come to mind are not mudhoney or dino jr... but whatever. I'd think pretty much any amp with a good crunch channel could do what you want.

And plugging a big muff into a high(ish) gain amp and wrapping the gain knobs on both to the stop would generally sound like hell. And not in an awesome devil horns way. I have a big muff pi, and if I'm not on my clean channel when I kick it on it sounds pretty ass.

If you're after a thick fuzz sound why not just try a big muff through the clean channel on the amp you have? The BMP has quite a lot of gain. In fact, I usually keep the gain on mine as low as it will go, and it's STILL almost too much sometimes
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#24
Anybody know how much the Dark Terror is over there?

It's pretty much the dirty channel from the Orange TH30. I'm guessing maybe some fatter caps though.



It'd deffinately do what you want.

The dual terror is a weird design, it's pretty much two tiny terrors (No shit...) with seperate circuit paths, the only difference between the two is the fat side has bigger caps. You could just get a TT and make the caps bigger for the same sound I believe.
#25
Hmmm they have a contour knob on the dark terror... that's a new one.

Quote by poopiedeloopie
I wasn't really asking, I was more hinting at the fact that it might be a bit too much wattage. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I don't need any headroom at all since I just want it for its dirty channel.

So the Tiny Terror would be quieter than my current 40 watt Fender Deluxe though the same speaker, right?



1. The wattage is an indication of headroom, not so much volume. Yes generally speaking, more wattage, at similar levels does lead to higher volumes, but the change in volume is not going to be a direct linear relationship to the increase in wattage. However, its comparatively more correct to say that with higher wattages, you can stay clean louder.

Whether its too much / little wattage or too much / little volume, is going to be up to you. That's what a master volume is for. Sure bands use 100 watters in a stadium situation, but I also use a 90 watter Mesa solely for bedroom play and I keep the volume down.

Your use and application of the amp matters more than the technical specifications.

2. I would refrain from saying you don't need this or don't need that. You need to choose an amp for how you'd use it, not how you WILL NOT use it. Buy a Tiny Terror because you want the power tubes to break up early, NOT because you don't need the additional headroom.

If you had a Dual Terror going at $450, and a Tiny Terror going for $420. Are you going to get the Tiny Terror just because you don't need the additional features?

Determine what you need, and then buy to suit that need.

3. In theory yes. However, you also need to take into account the fact that the 7 watts is an indication of loud your amp will go before it gets power tube distortion.

For example, if the circuit (or bias) of a 30 watt amp is such that it can it takes longer than a 40 watt amp to saturate its power tubes, then the 30 watter can in theory be louder than the 40 watter.

Yes I know the assumption doesn't seem intuitive but it is possible.
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Last edited by ragingkitty at Jun 2, 2011,
#27
Quote by beckyjc
^Yeah so does the TH, its not great, but much better than a simple tone control.


I suppose so, but I never really liked contour knobs... it seems to make it muddier rather than adding cut to the sound. Then again, the only contour knobs I've come across tend to be on cheap SS amps.
Quote by Blompcube
it's so cool to hate Gibson, even the federal Department of Justice hates them.

( )( )
( . .) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
C('')('') signature to help him gain world domination.
#28
It's not strictly a contour knob, since it doesnt just effect the mid frequencies. Left is all mids no treble and bass, right is all treble and bass no mids.

Either extremity sounds pretty wank, but it allows for some sweet spots. 11oclock is usually the one.
#29
Quote by jpatan
This thread makes my brain hurt...

When I think high gain, the bands that come to mind are not mudhoney or dino jr... but whatever. I'd think pretty much any amp with a good crunch channel could do what you want.

And plugging a big muff into a high(ish) gain amp and wrapping the gain knobs on both to the stop would generally sound like hell. And not in an awesome devil horns way. I have a big muff pi, and if I'm not on my clean channel when I kick it on it sounds pretty ass.

If you're after a thick fuzz sound why not just try a big muff through the clean channel on the amp you have? The BMP has quite a lot of gain. In fact, I usually keep the gain on mine as low as it will go, and it's STILL almost too much sometimes


So is there a difference between an amp having a lot of "Gain" and a boat load of "Crunch"?
#30
Quote by jpatan
This thread makes my brain hurt...

When I think high gain, the bands that come to mind are not mudhoney or dino jr... but whatever. I'd think pretty much any amp with a good crunch channel could do what you want.

And plugging a big muff into a high(ish) gain amp and wrapping the gain knobs on both to the stop would generally sound like hell. And not in an awesome devil horns way. I have a big muff pi, and if I'm not on my clean channel when I kick it on it sounds pretty ass.

If you're after a thick fuzz sound why not just try a big muff through the clean channel on the amp you have? The BMP has quite a lot of gain. In fact, I usually keep the gain on mine as low as it will go, and it's STILL almost too much sometimes


I disagree with everything you have said.

High gain can cover anything from Cannibal Corpse to The Black Keys, it's an arbitrary term.

My Big Muff sounds great on top of a bit (or a lot) of distortion especially for stoner and indie rock, where you WANT the out of control sound sometimes, and the insane feedback, and the way the gain reacts when you push a fuzz on top of it.

Indie rock, stoner, etc. aren't all about low gain, really, and I don't consider Sabbath particularly low gain, for instance. At the time they were pretty radical in their sound, and bands like Sleep and Kyuss get pretty heavy themselves gain-wise.
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Last edited by Raijouta at Jun 2, 2011,
#31
Quote by Raijouta
I disagree with everything you have said.

High gain can cover anything from Cannibal Corpse to The Black Keys, it's an arbitrary term.

My Big Muff sounds great on top of a bit (or a lot) of distortion especially for stoner and indie rock, where you WANT the out of control sound sometimes, and the insane feedback, and the way the gain reacts when you push a fuzz on top of it.

Indie rock, stoner, etc. aren't all about low gain, really, and I don't consider Sabbath particularly low gain, for instance. At the time they were pretty radical in their sound, and bands like Sleep and Kyuss get pretty heavy themselves gain-wise.


I like you. Good music knowledge too.

So like I was just asking... is a really good "crunch" considered "gain", or would that be put in a separate category?
#32
Quote by beckyjc
Anybody know how much the Dark Terror is over there?

It's pretty much the dirty channel from the Orange TH30. I'm guessing maybe some fatter caps though.

It'd deffinately do what you want.

The dual terror is a weird design, it's pretty much two tiny terrors (No shit...) with seperate circuit paths, the only difference between the two is the fat side has bigger caps. You could just get a TT and make the caps bigger for the same sound I believe.


It seems like they are marketing it more as a Metal amp from the videos I have seen. Its hard to find info on it though. Isn't it already released?
Last edited by poopiedeloopie at Jun 2, 2011,