#1
Hey there guys!

I have a couple of questions as I have never really gone to music school but am mostly self taught.

I started playing on an acoustic and then after the basic chords went into electric.
I know the pentatonic scale and can play a few songs:
A few blues
a few from GnR
3 from Led Zep
3 from Santana
1 Hendrix
etc

I am mostly a bedroom player (in more ways than one ) but I think a bit later I would like to jam with others.

Been playing 2-3 years on and off but practicing more now.
I find I can learn an entire new song (for example November Rain in 2-10 days) via something like lick library or guitar pro.

My question is... as I have never been to a guitar school and have had no formal training, what is the "path" to follow to become a good guitarist?

Where should i go from here? what theory / scales etc do I need to get into my head? I know I have to learn what "modes" is but... Any other links, books, videos or something else you recommend?

Thank you for your time.

Cheers!

Gear:
US Standard strat
Washburn pro e
Floor pod plus
Roland cube
Computer
“God gave men both a penis and a brain, but unfortunately not enough blood supply to run both at the same time.”
(My hero) - Robin Williams
Last edited by MusicGu7 at Jun 6, 2011,
#2
Lots of different ways, but personally I'd go with a teacher. I did this after like 1 year and being around the same as you. Really helped me out and changed my view of things.
Blog Of Awesome UGers.
Quote by OddOneOut
I seem to attract girls.
Which is annoying, cos I'm a girl and I like cock.

Quote by IRISH_PUNK13
Being an idiot should be illegal too.
#3
I really don't have time to go for normal classes (or quite honestly the money as its pretty expensive here) plus I learn pretty well by myself and the main problem:
it's hard to find a good teacher and even harder to know which one is good.

Some can play really well but cant teach, others show you what you want to see but thats all they know
“God gave men both a penis and a brain, but unfortunately not enough blood supply to run both at the same time.”
(My hero) - Robin Williams
#4
In my opinion learning songs from some lick site means that you followed well enough to become a well trained parrot. Playing in those songs will give you some timing practice, pitch collection and some lick and arrangement ideas. Does that make you a good guitarist? No, not imo, but maybe for the limited scope of what you do know, you are a good guitarist. How do you define a good guitarist? Many people may decide differently.

From just the information and comments you have made in this post, to me you resemble the typical DIY'r who wants to piecemeal everything they learn from the internet and mostly free resources, and there's a million like you out there on that path.

Try Mike Dodge's website. But also try defining your goals and needs.

Best,

Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at Jun 6, 2011,
#5
Quote by MusicGu7
I really don't have time to go for normal classes (or quite honestly the money as its pretty expensive here) plus I learn pretty well by myself and the main problem:
it's hard to find a good teacher and even harder to know which one is good.

Some can play really well but cant teach, others show you what you want to see but thats all they know

Hmm that's very true. Perhaps a better guitar player you know could teach you some stuff?

Like Sean said it's not the greatest thing just learning from dvds etc, but I do think it's a good way to start, try learning as many new songs as possible, even writing your own ideas etc.

Some music theory websites might be a good substitute for a teacher.
Blog Of Awesome UGers.
Quote by OddOneOut
I seem to attract girls.
Which is annoying, cos I'm a girl and I like cock.

Quote by IRISH_PUNK13
Being an idiot should be illegal too.
#6
Quote by MusicGu7


My question is... as I have never been to a guitar school and have had no formal training, what is the "path" to follow to become a good guitarist?



Play guitar often, listen, study & don't take yourself too seriously.

+ time.


Quote by MusicGu7
I really don't have time to go for normal classes (or quite honestly the money as its pretty expensive here) plus I learn pretty well by myself and the main problem:
it's hard to find a good teacher and even harder to know which one is good.

Some can play really well but cant teach, others show you what you want to see but thats all they know


"not enough time", " teachers suck", " you learn well by yourself".....= cop outs

lots of good teachers out there.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jun 6, 2011,
#7
Quote by ShiningEntity
Trust me, no you don't. Ignore all the idiots who hype them up as some sort of "Holy Grail" of music theory/guitar playing. Wait till you have an extremely good grasp of tonal theory before even considering looking at them. Even then, they are hardly necessary.



well, there is no need to write them off as unnecessary. They are definitely worth knowing about, and add more to the palette.
shred is gaudy music
#8
Not sure why you listed your gear, as It has no bearing on how good a musician you are :L

I've been trying to work this out myself, become more musical and all that.

Learn your standard chords (major and minor triads) in 6th string root, 5th string root etc...
Until you can play them anywhere on the fretboard. Learn the CAGED system too, there's bound to be a lesson on the site somewhere.

Instead of using lick library, try learn stuff by ear. Learn some pop songs and easy guitar solos by listening to them.

When you practice scales don't just play them straight up and down. Play them in thirds (instead of c,d,e,f,g,a,b,c play c,e,d,f,e,g,f,a,g,b,a,c,b,c) fourths, fifths...

try playing a note (say C) then try and sing a 5th above it. Then play the 5th and see if you got it right. Try playing a phrase, but sing ahead so you're predicting the note with your voice. good ear training!

also take a gander at www.musictheory.net Some handy ear drills there.

This is some stuff I try and do, when i'm focused (which granted isn't all that often) but it helps a little. If you practice it a lot it'll probably help a lot!

good luck!
#9
Thanks for the replies guys!


> a well trained parrot.

It's also a way to pay homage to the greats who came before me and got me interested in the art in the first place.

Like you said its a good place to get the very basics down as well, like some timing, pitch and lick arrangements.

> and there's a million like you out there on that path.

I would guess more.
But I don't see your point.
Whats "wrong" in learning from various places and by yourself? It may not be as quick as going to a coach but it cannot be all that much longer anyway. A lot of the "greats" learned by themselves.

Besides, I dont claim to have all the answers nor do i think I will find it by just using a search engine... that is why I posted this here, where more experienced guitarists can chip in.

> Try Mike Dodge's website

URL please...

.....

> Perhaps a better guitar player you know could teach you some stuff?

I'm sure he could, but I just don't have any friends who are players.

>try learning as many new songs as possible, even writing your own ideas etc.
Will do, thanks for the tip!

> Some music theory websites might be a good substitute for a teacher.

URLs please...


> Play guitar often, listen, study & don't take yourself too seriously.


> "not enough time", " teachers suck", " you learn well by yourself".....= cop outs
Honestly, they are not. I really do not have a lot of time nor money to go for classes.
Was born well hung and handsome instead of rich

> lots of good teachers out there.
I'm sure they are, but finding one is not easy... nor cheap.

> Wait till you have an extremely good grasp of tonal theory
Gimme some URLs or books, DVDs please...


@shmeegle,
Thanks for the tips! I dont think I will try to voice the notes as I don't sing at all (or even try to) when playing (def not a singer!) but the rest sounds good.

Cheers!
R
“God gave men both a penis and a brain, but unfortunately not enough blood supply to run both at the same time.”
(My hero) - Robin Williams
#10
I'm not giving you URLs because I suggest you find sites and learn from various ones that suit you.
Best of luck though

Blog Of Awesome UGers.
Quote by OddOneOut
I seem to attract girls.
Which is annoying, cos I'm a girl and I like cock.

Quote by IRISH_PUNK13
Being an idiot should be illegal too.
#12
Learn theory and listen to good music. Learn how to make up a major scale, the circle of 5ths, relative maj and min keys, the 3 common minor scales, intervals, triads and chord theory. Once you're confident in all of this, check out intervallic formulas to the diatonic modes if you're still curious.
by the time you read this you will be wasting your time because it doesnt say anything
#13
@HT,
Thanks!

I know how to make the major scale, but the circle of 5ths really did open my mind as to why certain progressions work and how they are related!

While learning the circle of 5ths i was linked to the 3 common minor scales so that was another good one!

Already knew triads, intervals and chord theory.

This is why I come here and ask questions rather than go to an instructor.

What could he tell me differently than what you guys are telling me and guiding me? It's the same except I save on time and money. I think I have learned this (circle of 5ths) in more detail and more accurately than one person could have taught me as well as the wiki and youtube vids were contributed by many talented people.

It also answered my questions as to why you have flats *and* sharps instead of just sharps of just flats (old question I had in my head but never asked), had no idea of "enharmonic" or "diatonic" meanings before. The major and the harmonic/natural minor scale makes much more sense to me now.

Google + (Google resulting website) + UG + Wikipedia + UG + Youtube (rinse and repeat) = winning combination and money/time saved.

Thanks guys!
“God gave men both a penis and a brain, but unfortunately not enough blood supply to run both at the same time.”
(My hero) - Robin Williams
Last edited by MusicGu7 at Jun 10, 2011,
#14
Quote by Sean0913
In my opinion learning songs from some lick site means that you followed well enough to become a well trained parrot. Playing in those songs will give you some timing practice, pitch collection and some lick and arrangement ideas. Does that make you a good guitarist? No, not imo, but maybe for the limited scope of what you do know, you are a good guitarist. How do you define a good guitarist? Many people may decide differently.

From just the information and comments you have made in this post, to me you resemble the typical DIY'r who wants to piecemeal everything they learn from the internet and mostly free resources, and there's a million like you out there on that path.

Try Mike Dodge's website. But also try defining your goals and needs.

Best,

Sean


I feel like after you post, that there isn't much to say.. coincidence? No.
"Could everyone please stop sounding like everyone else that's trying to sound like meshuggah?"

-Emil Werstler

Quote by damian_91
Kurt Cobain, the best guitarist to ever live.

#15
Quote by brandon2784
I feel like after you post, that there isn't much to say.. coincidence? No.


??
“God gave men both a penis and a brain, but unfortunately not enough blood supply to run both at the same time.”
(My hero) - Robin Williams
#16
Quote by MusicGu7
@HT,
Thanks!

I know how to make the major scale, but the circle of 5ths really did open my mind as to why certain progressions work and how they are related!

While learning the circle of 5ths i was linked to the 3 common minor scales so that was another good one!

Already knew triads, intervals and chord theory.

This is why I come here and ask questions rather than go to an instructor.

What could he tell me differently than what you guys are telling me and guiding me? It's the same except I save on time and money. I think I have learned this (circle of 5ths) in more detail and more accurately than one person could have taught me as well as the wiki and youtube vids were contributed by many talented people.

It also answered my questions as to why you have flats *and* sharps instead of just sharps of just flats (old question I had in my head but never asked), had no idea of "enharmonic" or "diatonic" meanings before. The major and the harmonic/natural minor scale makes much more sense to me now.

Google + (Google resulting website) + UG + Wikipedia + UG + Youtube (rinse and repeat) = winning combination and money/time saved.

Thanks guys!


Respect for coming forward and owning it, at least!

You get what you put into it. Let us know how it works out for you!



Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at Jun 10, 2011,
#17
Quote by Sean0913
Respect for coming forward and owning it, at least!

You get what you put into it. Let us know how it works out for you!



Sean


That sounds kind of snide.

Like I said before, I admit I am taking the longer route and wish I could afford private classes and had time for private classes as well - but since I cannot and do not, mind telling me what I am missing out on instead of just being cryptic?
“God gave men both a penis and a brain, but unfortunately not enough blood supply to run both at the same time.”
(My hero) - Robin Williams
#18
Quote by MusicGu7
That sounds kind of snide.

Like I said before, I admit I am taking the longer route and wish I could afford private classes and had time for private classes as well - but since I cannot and do not, mind telling me what I am missing out on instead of just being cryptic?


I understand that not everyone can afford lessons. I would be interested in following your progress. I'd suggest that if you find things that worked along the way note them, as you can be a real help to others who are taking the self-help longer route. I do tend to wonder one thing though:

UG has thousands of lessons, and virtually everyone knows of YouTube, and Justin Sandercoe if they've ever run a search, and most people have public libraries in their town, and my question is, if all that actually worked...why are so many still coming here posting looking for help, and usually wrong in the things they say they "know"?

That's why I feel you have a unique opportunity to compile what's worked for you, and what continues to work for you, and spread the love to others here.

Sean
#19
I'm in college for music right now, and there are many things that go into turning yourself into a better musician.

It is of course necessary to be proficient at your instrument, so practice! Do those scales, learn new chords, and challenge yourself. It would also be good to actually know something about music, so some basic theory knowledge would help you since it translates to all instruments and forms of music.

This being said, it's also very important to have a real love for music. I feel like lots of guitarists say they love music, but they don't know what MUSIC really is. There's so much history in music and so many different forms that you should explore to be called a musician.
#20
I don't think anyone's actually said it - or maybe I've just missed it - but in my opinion you really need to start making your own music in order to become 'a musician'.

I had a pretty limited understanding of music until I started writing my own stuff. I'd been just playing other people's songs for two years. Once I began working toward original music I got so much better at everything.

I learned the basics of music theory (keys, scales, intervals, chords) and then looked at songs/styles I knew, and worked out how the principles had been applied. I think that's a step that a lot of people miss out - they learn the theory, but don't ever realise how it's applied. It's what you might call composition/songwriting I guess.

While doing that I also started trying to write. I don't mean anything fancy; I just mean playing some chords and creating a melody over the top, or recording a loop over a bassline, or punching something into Guitar Pro, etc. It all gave me a good functional knowledge of the theory, and just how music works.

People may disagree, but I found learning the (relevant) theory very easy once I started using it. At the moment I'm teaching someone, and they're having a hell of a time with it, simply because he won't sit down and use that theory they've learned.

I think I may be rambling by now... But my point is that in order to learn anything you have to actually do it, and learning is always much easier when you can see what it's going to lead to. Also, there's a difference between 'musician' and 'guitarist'. A guitarist understands guitar, a musician understands music as a whole, and that's something you can't understand unless you're writing entire pieces.

I'm definitely rambling by now. So. That's what I did. I picked up guitar five years ago (at age of 16), began writing songs about three years ago, and am now halfway through a music degree, playing in a band and starting my own solo music project.

By the way, what the guy before me said is very true; You need a real love of music. Not just 'I want to flop my hair around on a stage'. A proper love, where you're actually motivated to create music out of a passion. And as for modes: no. You won't need them. And if - for some crazy reason - you ever find you do need them, you'll be able to work them out on the fly with the knowledge you already have.

I had a much better point to make, but the wine hit me halfway through. Any questions, just ask.
#21
Hope I got your name right.

I am also self taught, but with what knowledge I have I have taught others. Through that, I eventually ran into some students that surpassed me for skill, so I had to gain more knowledge. Music theory saved my day...also guitar pro computer program. The more I explored theory, the more confidence I was able to gain. I play with bands sometimes, and I found that giving myself to a lot of hard work and study got me closer to my goal. I don't call myself a guitarist yet, but I am closer than I was.

I can play some songs by Trivium, one by Breaking Benjamin, one by Taproot....that's it for now. I can figure out a lot more stuff by ear, using barre chords to find where the notes are...that came through theory.
#22
I agree with writing your own music. I have also written several songs...not all got to be played before an audience, but they were written never the less. Doing this gave me more confidence, and I believe stage presence. Writing your own music also helps you to understand how music is built...like painting and drawing helps you understand art.

I really liked what you had to say. I am so glad to talk about music.
#23
One more thing, (after reading your replies to people's quotes)...don't give up on finding the right teacher for you. I have taught many things as well as guitar, and sometimes it is a matter of finding the person that clicks well with you...in other words, their brain is like yours. I have had to learn very differently from other people, and I had to find what worked for me. Honestly, I never had time for a teacher very much. But, enough of that. The book I found extreemly useful was The Complete Idiot's Guide to Music Theory Second Edition by Michael Miller. And again, start trying to write your own as much as you can. Out of all of the students that I have ever had the opportunity to work with that had the most potential for success, it was those that were not afraid to step outside and use their own creativity. So, use whatever you have at your disposal now, and keep pushing yourself until you have a solid break through.

You know, always ask yourself how badly do you want to improve...how badly do you want to become a musician?
#24
@sean,
I think I can answer your question...

Nearly everyone knows of YT true, and there is a wealth of info there probably covering the A-Z of guitar theory BUT... and this is a big but... it's pretty jumbled.
There is no real "path" from A to Z, add to that that many people have a different "style" of teaching and it gets pretty complicated pretty fast.
Then there is also the frustration of learning the "same thing" from video 3,4,5 that you learned from video 1 and 2 when you switched to someone elses channel.

Coming to UG and asking questions gets you answers from different people who also look at what the previous person has posted and usually refine some points or add to the post.

It also helps if you know the basics of what you are asking for (for example how to make the major scale or X ) and then get tips and suggestions from everyone, I find by the time the thread ends you end up much better rather than worse.

Unlike a couple of other people I do not depend on UG to have all my answers but use it in a combination with Google, Wikipedia, YouTube etc...
Longer route? Sure. More work, yep! But pretty detailed as well.

> and usually wrong in the things they say they "know"?
Everyone is wrong at some point in the life with different things. Usally the older you get the wiser you get... if you have taken the time to actually look into these things and keep an open mind to change what you thought was right to what is proven to be right.

I have a feeling you are getting ticked off with the young'uns who think they know everything

The great thing about places like UG is people will tell you where you are wrong... and more importantly: why. Hopefully in a decent way... and not in a condesending one.

@RichardChannell,
I agree with every point you made!
Good luck with your studies and I hope you will share with us (esp guys like me) the knowledge gained there


@Fraz01,
> I don't think anyone's actually said it - or maybe I've just missed it - but in my opinion you really need to start making your own music in order to become 'a musician'.

Good point! But I think I'm a bit away from that (coward? ) , perhaps in the near future.

> I think that's a step that a lot of people miss out
Makes sense and duly noted so that I dont make the same mistake.

@michele knauss
Thanks for the advise and the book title as well!
“God gave men both a penis and a brain, but unfortunately not enough blood supply to run both at the same time.”
(My hero) - Robin Williams
#25
Quote by MusicGu7


Good point! But I think I'm a bit away from that (coward? ) , perhaps in the near future.


No, no, honestly, start as soon as you can. Don't put it off. It's nowhere near as hard as you think it is.
#26
Quote by MusicGu7
@sean,
I think I can answer your question...

Nearly everyone knows of YT true, and there is a wealth of info there probably covering the A-Z of guitar theory BUT... and this is a big but... it's pretty jumbled.
There is no real "path" from A to Z, add to that that many people have a different "style" of teaching and it gets pretty complicated pretty fast.
Then there is also the frustration of learning the "same thing" from video 3,4,5 that you learned from video 1 and 2 when you switched to someone elses channel.

Coming to UG and asking questions gets you answers from different people who also look at what the previous person has posted and usually refine some points or add to the post.

It also helps if you know the basics of what you are asking for (for example how to make the major scale or X ) and then get tips and suggestions from everyone, I find by the time the thread ends you end up much better rather than worse.

Unlike a couple of other people I do not depend on UG to have all my answers but use it in a combination with Google, Wikipedia, YouTube etc...
Longer route? Sure. More work, yep! But pretty detailed as well.

> and usually wrong in the things they say they "know"?
Everyone is wrong at some point in the life with different things. Usally the older you get the wiser you get... if you have taken the time to actually look into these things and keep an open mind to change what you thought was right to what is proven to be right.

I have a feeling you are getting ticked off with the young'uns who think they know everything

The great thing about places like UG is people will tell you where you are wrong... and more importantly: why. Hopefully in a decent way... and not in a condesending one.


I think you make some good points, and I think those points that you refer to as "problems" are the reason that so many flounder, and many fall off.

With few exceptions, most lessons on YouTube that are free are there to "hook you" not teach you.

See, I have a central axiom to being a teacher that I live by: If I teach and you learn, mission accomplished. If I teach and you don't learn, and are motivated TO learn (its a 2 way street) then I have not done what I need to as a teacher.

Videos do not do that, books do not do that. As I have said so many timers, the mere relaying of information, is not equivalent to teaching. Matching the message to the need and ensuring that the understanding is there, anticipating the choke points in ones initial understand and taking measures to help overcome those...that's teaching.

If the end game of teaching isn't that the person learns, then why teach? I live by that. Videos do not. People cannot easily self teach, because who is there to prevent them from falling into error, OR anticipate where you might easily do so?

There's the other thing, if so many other videos have the "same thing" something I heartily agree with you about, by the way, then why didn't the first time work? Why do we need 100 different ways to state what the CAGED system is?

There is SO much redundancy out there, that if the information were effective and easily accessible to start with, then everyone should know this. The truth is, with most people, they got it (understanding theory) only a few ways. School band/music teachers, classes, Private instruction, or self-taught and tenacity. There are a few here that continue to learn that self-taught way and are doing great - TMVATDI is a grand example of a dude that's just hung in there, humbled himself and learned along the way. But' he's doing his own footwork also, investing into his own learning. That's great, but for every one of those, there are 60-80 that arent going to make it. You might be like TMVATDI, who I respect a lot, but what about the rest of these guys that arent gonna make it?

Every week at least once I say to my students, "Do you realize if others in public schools and even people that didnt play an instrument were taught this way, EVERYONE would know theory and guitar, and it would be one of the easiest classes ever!" And they all agree. I got guys that are in Death Metal bands that got here and couldn't tell me the tuning of their strings or any of their notes, and 4-6 months later, are able to explain what a triad is, the notes of that triad or extended chord, all without looking at the guitar! They know every note, and every chord known to mankind in terms of western based music (just in case there are microtonal guys out there that wanna belabor their point). That's what frustrates me...is I know how easy this stuff can be presented.

Sure you can chop a tree down with a spoon if you have enough time, and many do a good job of it...but it seems sad to me that it has to be that way.

I don't get upset with people that think they know it all, many if they persist, I leave them to their ignorance...that's a choice they make. But I do speak up for the guy lurking, and that may be persuaded that what this dude just posted was correct. For that guy that never posts, I will speak up for so that he doesn't fall into the same degree of error as the guy posting. That's why I called that guy out in this forum a couple of months back on his explanation of the Modes, and challenged him to post up his composition or shut up (he never came back). Not because he was wrong, but a lot of people were buying into his deal and videos and I had to say something, because his charisma was leading to error for anyone that believed it. I can't sit there and say nothing.

I get contacted regularly by guys like this, and many even become students, who write "I never posted before but I created an account so that I could write you and ask you...." So, I know there are more people that are reading things here, and that cause is worthwhile to me. Bad advice only costs the person who listens to it.

I think there should be a sense of responsibility that we all have when posting, because while you may think you're right, if you're not sure, you could be misleading some guy that knows a little less than you do, and your charisma is just enough to swing his conviction. I wouldn't want to be a dude to mislead someone else...I've been that dude that listened to wrong information. My theory journey took 12 years. I don't wish that upon anyone.

Appreciate your thoughts, and I wish you the best, seriously. I'm not pissed or mad at anyone, but I am passionate about those who have no defense.

Best,

Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at Jun 11, 2011,
#27
Take to heart what Sean says, OP, he's dead-on almost all of the time. As someone who has been where you are, learning songs and trying to figure out the real musical "details", theory, ear training and what have you, through the various internet mediums that are available (and by the way, a combination of google, youtube, and UG, is both more often used and less helpful than you think) I can tell you that it is absolutely no substitute for a good teacher. The bottom line is that as fledgling musicians we can research things and find answers on youtube, etc, but the actual accuracy or helpfulness of those answers are often pretty suspect. Look up any "Expert Village" videos pertaining to playing an instrument for an example of what I mean. Far too frequently people like yourself believe falsely that they have found an answer they were looking for and turn around and make videos or articles themselves to try and teach others, but when the information was flawed to begin with, it just perpetuates confusion. When trying to learn theory via free internet pages I was shocked at the wide range of different answers I found for the same questions. Even small differences can be very confusing.

I went to school for 2 years and got a diploma in Jazz Performance, and from the very get-go, I was amazed at how questions and concepts that had eluded me for years were easily understood once a real person with legitimate knowledge and the ability to realize exactly where I was going wrong was explaining them to me. Like Sean said, the ability for a good teacher to anticipate your pitfalls and tailor the information in a way that will suit you is the difference maker in a learning experience. For that reason, I've always found guitar DVDs pretty useless, despite any insane chops or gigging experience the author may have.

I understand it's difficult to find good teachers, doubly so if you live in an area without many, and maybe you don't really have 'time' to deal with any sort of formal lessons, but consider the amount of time you probably search the internet to find answers to questions that would take a teacher a few minutes to clearly outline for you. Sean is always advertising that he mentors young musicians for free, and from my understanding he does pretty good work teaching via the internet as well, I'd start by talking to him. Like others have said, you get back what you put in, and I can tell you I got way more back in a few years of real person-to-person teaching than I did from years of learning songs out of GuitarWorld and piecing together theory from user-edited wikipedia pages. UG is a great resource to be sure, but at any time you can safely assume that half the posters in a thread don't know what the fuck they're talking about.
Get baked, study theory.

Quote by :-D
Why are you bringing Cm into this?
#28
I wish I could buy you dinner and chill with you brother. Not because of what you've said about me, but because that post as a whole couldn't have been more dead on correct! I can't tell you how many times I'd like to meet those "Expert Village" People face to face...It is sickening. To me that brand is below spam. It represents all that I hate about musical instruction.

Justin Sandercoe is on the other end. As a teacher...TEACHER I admire him, and he puts it all out there because he's passionate about it. The thing is, nothing he teaches is his own. It's the same stuff that's been out there, compiled, placed in the heart of a teacher, and presented with his smiling "come on you can do it" personality, and millions of people love the guy! And that is awesome. I got nothing but respect for that!

And I'll put Mike Dodge up there as well. That guy shares every experience and observation and passion, till it's dripping out of his pores. He is an example to me, and others here. Not only in what he knows, but in how he teaches it. Mike is a giver.

And then in between, you have people that are "teaching" only to promote their website and get you to sign up, preying upon the ignorant with recycled information that many have no idea about. Making money...getting enough fish in their pond.

I don't have anything else to say there, it is what it is.

Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at Jun 11, 2011,
#29
Quite a lot to reply to but no time right now so will leave a small note and come back to this later.

First off Sean, you might be a bit surprised but we both come from a similar path... I was into magic for years
and thats where I learned that "expert village" is nothing but rehashed crap and crispy goat turd... with a side serving of annoying ads.

I have it on my blacklist so even if I accidently land on their page my plugin will display a warning message.

I'm on Mike Dodges website now... good stuff
“God gave men both a penis and a brain, but unfortunately not enough blood supply to run both at the same time.”
(My hero) - Robin Williams
#30
You were into magic?

Well then you know the difference in instruction between a TT or stripper deck, and Solomon's Aces, or a Dai Vernon routine, or Bro John's Gemini Count and Twins? Doesn't compare.

Where in Magic can you get far without "investment" into earning the secret, and the mentorship (If you were in the TAOM or IBM as I was) of other musicians who respected my drive and willingness to give of myself to respect what they had to do. And I'm not talking about apparatus magic. Then you know that the good stuff is worth investing in. Over time I learned about the magic of audience management, theatre, the suspension of disbelief and so on through my mentors, who turned effects, into presentations and performers into artists.

Paramount in magic is the understanding that secrets are earned, and kept, the common bond was through mutual respect and appreciating of the sacrifice in time, and finances, I mean come on, some manuscripts were completely off the charts for some of the best magic that few in the world will ever see.

Music isn't much different.

Best,

Sean
#31
You should really not have to ask what to do if you're going to become a good musician. Good musicians know they are good and do not have to ask what to do, a good musician drinks art as naturally as water, a bad musician will have to be forced to pick it up and once you leave him alone he will not want to do it anymore.

Here's an example, say you have two toddlers infront of a piano, neither have ever seen a damn thing like a piano in their life until now, toddler one walks up to it and slams his palm on middle C and squashes down some other keys in the process, toddler two uses a single finger and presses down a single key, he knows the piano is connected to his fingers, from that moment on everytime he sees a piano he'll do the same thing and use correct procedure for playing the instrument.

Noise and music is the same thing, you know, it's all noise, it all makes us move forward and do what we were gonna do next, melodies, tampur and lyrics are all COMPLETELY AND 100% objects of cultural approval. It's all procrastination, really, we just mask it with the word "music" and call it something else to make ourselves feel better.

If we didn't care, we could all just listen to a laundry machine and call it Weezer.
#32
Quote by Dansieg

If we didn't care, we could all just listen to a laundry machine and call it Sunn O))).

Fix'd
^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^


"To know the truth of history is to realize its ultimate myth and its inevitable ambiguity." Everything is made up and the facts don't matter.


MUSIC THEORY LINK
#33
Top tips -

Do what it takes to find good teachers and study with them. (this doesn't necessarily mean "pay to learn a tune a week", youtube is a good start, playing in bands with more experienced musicians...)

If you want to be a musician, you need to get performing. Asafp. That's your bread and butter.

General things that will make you better -

Focus on getting as much mileage as you can from simple concepts rather than trying to learn the most complex stuff you can.

Find out how you learn best, work at it.

You need good ears, good chops, and a functional understanding of theory and common musical terms. Get to work on your weak points.

(If you were in the TAOM or IBM as I was)


And BAM! there's another interesting snippet of back story. You were saying about audience management?
#34
Quote by Sean0913
I can't tell you how many times I'd like to meet those "Expert Village" People face to face...It is sickening. To me that brand is below spam. It represents all that I hate about musical instruction.



Agree 10000%!

I genuinely think Expert Village is designed as some kind of sabotage thing to dumb people down. I laughed so hard when I see the people playing on it. In fact, I think some of the people on there were actually paid to make those videos and had never before touched the instrument, so they learn whatever they need in 7 days and then make some shitty video.
: )