#1
Ok so I've always thought the added 9th is equal to the note 2 frets above the root of the chord, therefore if the chord is E, the added 9th is F#, so shouldn't an Em9 be E-G-B-D-F#?

But if we look at the C major scale: C-D-E-F-G-A-B, the E is minor, and if we take the 1,3,5,7,9 from it we get: E-G-B-D-F

What's going on here???

Also, guitar sites show Em9 as having an added F# instead of an added F..
#2
You're using the wrong scale.
A callous exterior isn't an uncommon way of protecting ideals; it hides the idealists from the derision of fools and cowards. But it also immobilizes them, so that, in trying to preserve their ideals, they risk losing them.
#3
^ This.

The key of Eminor (or Gmajor) has 1 sharp. F#.

E,F#,G,A,B,C,D

What you are looking at is actually an Em b9th chord in the key of C. From C D E F G A B

Someone correct me if i'm wrong.
Last edited by Rahguzar at Jun 7, 2011,
#4
Quote by -TM-
Ok so I've always thought the added 9th is equal to the note 2 frets above the root of the chord, therefore if the chord is E, the added 9th is F#, so shouldn't an Em9 be E-G-B-D-F#?

But if we look at the C major scale: C-D-E-F-G-A-B, the E is minor, and if we take the 1,3,5,7,9 from it we get: E-G-B-D-F

What's going on here???

Also, guitar sites show Em9 as having an added F# instead of an added F..

Because what you have is the phrygian chord (or the iii), which has the b9... . Your 9ths would work with the ii and the vi...

And you mention an added 9th... this would mean there would be no b7. The Em9 (which includes the b7) would be available to you in the keys of D and G. Unless, of course, you want to add an accidental and forget about the iii chord's function altogether... no harm in that. Or just term it as extra flavouring.

Hope it helps ya
#5
the Emi9 is correct as EGBDF#...it does not have to be in the key of C to be an Emi9...if you change the key to D...then it becomes a "diatonic" chord to that key...chords formed just using the notes of a key are "scale formed chords"..using a simple method of "every other note" to form the chords...example...in the key of C..CDEFGAB...and you want a Dmi9..its every other note starting on D..DFACE...

sometime acommodatete the melody-or just for color..some chords are formed with notes outside the key your in..they can be called "borrowed" notes or "passing tones" or altered and substitute chords..

a further study of theory and harmony will show you how chords formed from notes outside the parent key can be used ... you will see this type of thing alot..very few songs just use scale tones

play well

wolf
#6
The third chord in a diatonic major (ionian) mode is the phrygian, which has a minor second (semitone above the root) as opposed to a whole tone second.

You'll notice if you play basic triads, the chords are:

C Major (CEG)
D Minor (DFA)
E Minor (EGB)
F Major (FAC)
G Major (GBD)
A Minor (ACE)
B Diminished (BDF)

BUT! The other tones in the scale vary depending on the key you play in, so for example in the key of C major:

C (Ionian) has no sharps or flats
D (Dorian) has a flat 3rd and a flat 7th
E (Phrygian) has a flat 2nd, a flat 3rd, a flat 6th and a flat 7th
F (Lydian) has a sharp 4th
G (Mixolydian) has a flat 7th
A (Aeolian) has a flat 3rd, a flat 6th and a flat 7th
B (Locrian) has a flat 2nd, a flat 3rd, a flat 5th, a flat 6th, and a flat 7th

You'll notice all the majors have a major 3rd and a perfect 5th, the minors have a minor 3rd and perfect 5th, and the diminished has a minor third and diminished 5th.

to put these scales in the 'order of flats':

Lydian: #4
Ionian: N/A
Mixolydian: b7
Dorian: b3 b7
Aeolian: b3 b6 b7
Phrygian: b2 b3 b6 b7
Locrian: b2 b3 b5 b6 b7

these scales sound progressively darker as you descend
#7
Quote by Rahguzar
^ This.

The key of Eminor (or Gmajor) has 1 sharp. F#.

E,F#,G,A,B,C,D

What you are looking at is actually an Em b9th chord in the key of C. From C D E F G A B

Someone correct me if i'm wrong.

Oh wow, I was taught that, much like a harmonized major scale in sevenths, i.e.,

IMaj7-ii7-iii7-IVMaj7-V7-vi7-vii*m7b5

that to get the particular 9th/11th/13th chord you just tag it on to 7th chords, i.e.,

IMaj9-ii9-iii9-IVMaj9-V9-vi9-vii9m7b5


But it turns out when you harmonize in 9ths it doesn't quite work like that? The "iii" isn't a m9 chord at all, it's a m7b9 chord?
#8
Quote by -TM-
Oh wow, I was taught that, much like a harmonized major scale in sevenths, i.e.,

IMaj7-ii7-iii7-IVMaj7-V7-vi7-vii*m7b5

that to get the particular 9th/11th/13th chord you just tag it on to 7th chords, i.e.,

IMaj9-ii9-iii9-IVMaj9-V9-vi9-vii9m7b5


But it turns out when you harmonize in 9ths it doesn't quite work like that? The "iii" isn't a m9 chord at all, it's a m7b9 chord?



Basically you got it.

I believe the convention is you that you will not mention the 7 in the 9th chords NAME. The presence of a b7 is implied and understood.

The exception to this is if it were a Em addb9 . In which case you would omit the b7 and simply add the highest tone i.e the b9 (F) to your regular minor chord.

E G B F is Em add b9

E G B D F is Em b9th


Someone Correct me if i'm wrong.
#9
Quote by -TM-
Oh wow, I was taught that, much like a harmonized major scale in sevenths, i.e.,

IMaj7-ii7-iii7-IVMaj7-V7-vi7-vii*m7b5

that to get the particular 9th/11th/13th chord you just tag it on to 7th chords, i.e.,

IMaj9-ii9-iii9-IVMaj9-V9-vi9-vii9m7b5


fire whomever taught you that.

there's no easy trick to doing this kind of thing. just learn the notes and learn extended chord construction -- it's really not difficult at all.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#10
Quote by AeolianWolf
fire whomever taught you that.

there's no easy trick to doing this kind of thing. just learn the notes and learn extended chord construction -- it's really not difficult at all.


Yeah it's amazing how this thread has gotten derailed, firstly concerning 9ths and drifting off into phyrgian and harmonising the major scale in 7ths, I don't even know where it's going next.

I'll just say that a 9th chord is a chord with an added 9th. So make a chord, ad a ninth. The only mistake you made was that you referred to the tonic of the key, rather than the root of the chord. So the ninth is in relation to the E, and not the C.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#11
Quote by AlanHB
Yeah it's amazing how this thread has gotten derailed, firstly concerning 9ths and drifting off into phyrgian and harmonising the major scale in 7ths, I don't even know where it's going next.

I'll just say that a 9th chord is a chord with an added 9th. So make a chord, ad a ninth. The only mistake you made was that you referred to the tonic of the key, rather than the root of the chord. So the ninth is in relation to the E, and not the C.


9th chord implys having the 7th, add9 implys only the triad with an added 9th
#12
Quote by jayx124
9th chord implys having the 7th, add9 implys only the triad with an added 9th


Too true
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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