#1
Im going through it and it basically covers intervals. I ran into this sentence and I'm not sure if its a typo or just worded weird.

So basically, is a diminished interval relatively different from a diminished chord? If one were to dimish the major 3rd of C, it'd be a D. But if you were to write a diminished chord, that would be C Eb Gb.

So I'm a little confused.
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#2
In the circled example it is referring to the quality of the chord, such as a major or minor 3rd. In this case a diminished third is 2 half steps smaller than a major 3rd. A diminished 4th is a half step smaller than a perfect fourth, and a dim 5th a half step smaller than a perfect 5th. The worksheet isn't very clear on this.
#3
^Yeah, that's a very poorly written worksheet.. I would write false next to that statement..

Unless it's talking about chords like Paq said^ But I don't see that.. Blasphemy!
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#4
I agree it's not the best worded worksheet, but nothing it said is wrong. A diminished third is two half steps smaller than a major third. Intervals and chords are different things. A diminished chord does not have a diminished third in it. It's two stacked minor thirds or root-minor third-diminished fifth.
#5
Quote by jazz_rock_feel
I agree it's not the best worded worksheet, but nothing it said is wrong. A diminished third is two half steps smaller than a major third. Intervals and chords are different things. A diminished chord does not have a diminished third in it. It's two stacked minor thirds or root-minor third-diminished fifth.


Yep, whoever wrote it is stupid, but it is only about intervals. Nothing about chords on that one.
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#7
Quote by Calibos
Isn't 2 half steps below a Major 3rd a Major 2nd?


Yes exactly.

But only if its a different letter. It doesn't take the time to explain that part, and that's why books suck at teaching theory.

For example, if you have G as a major 7th to an Ab Major Scale, and you go down a half step, you now have Gb as a b7 and down again, makes Gbb a diminished 7th. The letter name is the same, however its equivalent/enharmonic in pitch to an F.

If a 6th is B, then a b6 is Bb and dim 6 is Bbb - yes 2 half steps away from a Major interval of the SAME Letter...which is pooooooooorly explained in that example.

It does say "Compared to a Perfect Interval with...the same letter names" but that's weak, it gave a fact but didnt stress its importance nor anticipate that this would be a common self-taught error. Fact relating isnt the same as teaching....Teaching anticipates the needs and commits to resolving them.

Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at Jun 8, 2011,
#8
Quote by Calibos
Isn't 2 half steps below a Major 3rd a Major 2nd?


Technically yes. But in terms of thirds it would be a diminished third.

If i wrote C and E as an interval it would be a major third.
But if i instead wrote C and Ebb it would be a diminished third.
I could also write that interval as C and D (because they are enharmonic equivalents)
It all has to do with how it's written down on the staff.
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#9
i don't see how it's poorly worded at all. i think it's clear.

you don't use a diminished third in a diminished chord. that's the prerequisite knowledge you're missing.

if you absolutely had to have a diminished third in C, it'd be Ebb, not D. even though they sound the same, they're different notes and function differently.
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#10
Quote by AeolianWolf
i don't see how it's poorly worded at all. i think it's clear.
I think the part where it says "Diminished - Two semitones smaller than major or perfect" is at best poorly worded and at worst totally wrong because a diminished 4th or 5th is only one semitone lower than a P4/P5.
Last edited by 12345abcd3 at Jun 8, 2011,
#13
So what I've picked up from this is that...

Diminished chords and diminished intervals arent the same thing

Diminished major intervals are 2 semitones lower, and have enharmonic major equivelents.

So a diminished 2nd would be an enharmonic to a unison?

And diminished perfect intervals are only 1 half step smaller, including diminished minor intervals?

I just want to wrap my head around this because im a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to learning theory related stuff so thanks for the helps.
#14
Quote by Sean0913

If a 6th is B, then a b6 is Bb and dim 6 is Bbb - yes 2 half steps away from a Major interval of the SAME Letter...which is pooooooooorly explained in that example.

It does say "Compared to a Perfect Interval with...the same letter names"

Sean


Didn't see the part in italic, makes sense now.


Quote by 12345abcd3
Sorry, I meant semitones instead of steps, the error is still there however.


I think you're having the same problem as me, read seans post above.
Last edited by Calibos at Jun 9, 2011,
#15
Quote by supercoolperson

Diminished major intervals are 2 semitones lower, and have enharmonic major equivelents.

So a diminished 2nd would be an enharmonic to a unison?

And diminished perfect intervals are only 1 half step smaller, including diminished minor intervals?


I think you're confusing this a little bit. There's not really a "diminished major" or "diminished minor" interval. There's minor, major, perfect, diminished and augmented intervals. 4ths and 5ths are never major or minor, all others (2, 3, 6, 7) are never perfect. A major third is four half steps, a minor third is three half steps and a diminished third is two half steps, but all are between the same two notes (A-C#, A-C, A-Cb (note: A-Cb, same thing as A-B with a different name). You don't diminish a major interval or augment a perfect interval, you simply half types of intervals that are a set number of half steps.

Does that clear anything up?
#16
Quote by 12345abcd3
I think the part where it says "Diminished - Two semitones smaller than major or perfect" is at best poorly worded and at worst totally wrong because a diminished 4th or 5th is only one semitone lower than a P4/P5.


right, but it clears that all up at the bottom.

diminished is one step smaller than perfect, but two steps smaller than major.

i agree that it's not the BEST worksheet on intervals i've ever seen, but i guarantee you that it's far from the worst.

TS, let me spell it out for you.

you have a C major scale: C D E F G A B C. music gets no simpler than this.

your intervals here (from the root) are): P1, M2, M3, P4, P5, M6, M7, P8.

if you were to diminish intervals:

- you would lower the perfect intervals one semitone. so a d4 would be Fb, a d5 would be Gb, since the P4 and P5 are F and G, respectively.

- you would lower the major intervals TWO semitones (since a major interval reduced by one semitone is a minor interval), so a d3 is Ebb, a d6 is Abb, since a M3 and a M6 are E and A, respectively.

augmentation is much simpler, you augment EVERYTHING by one semitone. an A4 and an A6 are F# and A#, since a P4 and a M6 are F and A, respectively.

here's a little chart to sum it all up:

diminished < minor < major < augmented

- and -

diminished < perfect < augmented

got it? if not, let me know and i'll try to elaborate on it.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
Last edited by AeolianWolf at Jun 9, 2011,
#17
Thanks guys, I understand it now.

I was mostly confused by the whole diminished intervals and diminished chords being seperate things.

you simply half types of intervals that are a set number of half steps.

I'm guessing the 'half types' is a typo to 'have types'?