#1
ok so i find it very confusing between typess of bypass pedals.

buffered - i know they used a digital buffer to maintain signal quality and no high frequency loss as well as commonly have gain adjustments. i know that these can at times preserve your tone. NO POWER = NO SIGNAL

fake true bypass - what 90% of pedals toda claim. however, as people often say, they arent really true bypass in that you can still loose signal clarity and tone because the electronic components are connected to the input/output jacks, and signal can bleed into the pedal.

NO POWER = ?????? with no battery and no supply, can you have signal?

true bypass - 100% no inteference with signal when pedal is not on, correct? the pedal components are COMPLETELY disengaged from the signal chain. i hear that n issue iswith too many of them, you get high frequency loss. thus, it might be bettery to use some true bypass and some high quality buffered pedals.

NO POWER = ????? im guessing with no battery and no supply, signal still goes through???
#2
buffers are generally analogue. but aside from that, yeah, no power = no signal even in bypass mode.

with that half-assed bypass (as i call it- what you call fake true bypass), no power = signal in bypass.

and yeah in proper true bypass you get signal with no power too.

all disconnecting the power does is tell you if the pedal is buffered or not- it doesn't tell you if it's true bypass or half-assed bypass.

and yeah, if you have too many true bypass pedals you're gonna notice some treble loss. a good buffer would help.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
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#4
thanks. so i guess only buffers stop the signal, but half assed bypass ca degrade signal but let it through, and true bypass both keeps signal intact and lets it through.
#6
yeah basically, that's the way i see it.

Also you generally want as few buffers as possible, just in case they start interacting and messing with the tone too.

i'd agree- good buffer>true bypass>bad buffer, but if you have 15 pedals you probably don't want a buffer in each pedal, lol. if you're using a couple of TBP pedals you probably only need one buffer, if you're using a few more you *might* need one at the start of your chain and one at the end.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#7
really? thought boss pedals were pretty standard with buffers. havetn heard many compliants, and i cant tell the difference.

pretty sure my dunlop cry baby has a BAD buffer. fairly well known they suck a tiny bit of tone.

worst ive ever seen is behringer. those things have a noticably bad effect on your tone. i refuse to touch em.
#8
yeah i mean it's entirely possible i'm overthinking it.

I don't much like the boss buffers myself. it could be psychological, but i think i can "feel" they're there.

but i mean the #1 rule is if you can't hear any difference, it's fine.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#10
yep, exactly.

also i think some of the boss pedals have different buffers. could be wrong.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#11
I would not at all say that a good buffer is better than true bypass.
The downside of true bypass is that you have a longer signal chain, but the downside of buffers is that they start to interact with other pedals. Even a good buffer on its own will often induce strange reactions in other pedals, especially wahs and fuzzes.

If you have one pedal on, the benefits of a buffer go away completely. If you have one buffer on your board, the benefits of another buffer elsewhere in the board go away completely. If you have a short cable run from your pedals to your amp, if you use good cables, or if you don't mind or even prefer a little treble attenuation over your cable runs, the benefits of a buffer are severely reduced.

So my assessment is that in some cases, one buffer pedal in the chain can be useful - but my preference is towards true bypass, because they provide the fewest drawbacks in the greatest range of situations. Buffered pedals provide only one useful feature in a narrow range of situations, and many potential issues across a broad range.
#12
yeah, exactly, I agree.

I think I said something very similar in the last thread that came up on this issue. TBP may have issues, but they're issues that you can (normally) deal with. the issues caused by buffers tend to be a lot harder to solve.

EDIT: the big problem is that you have so many darn bandwagons and counter-bandwagons that you don't really know where you are any more.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Jun 9, 2011,
#13
Right, that's my dislike for buffered pedals in a nutshell. TBP pedals' issues can be sorted out by simple addition - better cables, clean boost, line driver, one buffer - but buffered pedals' issues cannot. If you've got a bad buffer, or two interacting buffers, there's nothing you can do to fix it aside from removing the buffer by some method. That means either modding the pedal, not using the pedal, or using a TBP loop (the irony!).

I have never gotten a board to sound acceptably tone-neutral if it's got more than 2 buffered pedals. There are very few buffers that play nice with most wah or fuzz pedals, too. I just don't think they're a good solution for most people.


Completely agreed on the bandwagoning thing. It seems like the 'good' options get labelled as less desirable because there are a few situations in which they're not that useful. TBP is the 'neutral' option, but since buffers can improve on their performance in a few rigs, they're somehow magically better all the time.
#14
yeah.

i generally work on the basis of getting as many of my pedals to be true bypass as possible- ideally all of them. then add a buffer.

Normally that buffer's in a pedal as i use a decimator, but it's a pretty decent buffer.

I guess if i got really pernickety i could put it in a tbp loop.

EDIT:

yeah here's a post from me on a previous thread on the topic:

Quote by Dave_Mc
agreed. though i'd say it's maybe even slightly more complicated than that... more like:

the right number of good buffers in the correct place in the chain > true bypass > a bad buffer/good buffer in the wrong place/too many buffers

I *think* you generally want the minimum number of buffers, and in the correct place in your chain so they maximise their effect, and also don't interact with pedals which don't like them, or with each other.

That's why I like true bypass, it gives you the most control. Worst case scenario you can always buy a standalone buffer which is known to be good and put it exactly where you want it.


that's more like what I mean, rather than the first post or two i posted in here I got lazy, lol
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Jun 9, 2011,