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#1
Alright, so I'm watching 60 Minutes, and they're discussing a publishing house in Alabama that has taken a common problem among schools-having Huckleberry Finn as a great novel, but viewing it as unteachable due to the excessive use of the "N-word"-and they have given a solution of publishing the book without the n-word and instead using the word slave.

It brought up interesting questions while watching it. There was a college professor on who was against it, saying that not only does the use of the word show how they spoke back then, but it also brings a teachable moment by putting the word in your face. He argued slave doesn't have the same power or connotation as the n-word (obvious because I'm not saying the s-word), and that it weakens the impact of the friendship between Huck and Jim.

It's just interesting to me, how when confronted with an uncomfortable subject we'd rather ignore it, and our past, instead of facing it. I also feel like, when discussing this word, we need to discuss rap music, and the liberal use of the word among young blacks.

I was just bringing this to you guys as I thought I thought it'd be an interesting discussion.
Due what you want as long as you vote Due!
#2
I think it's pretty much indefensible to censor any historical text; it's an anti-slavery book which uses the N-word in a manner which it is entirely appropriate to teach kids about within its historical context.
#3
Fun fact: I was at a Rush concert in September and I saw a guy who looked EXACTLY like Mark Twain.

People need to get over the word ******.
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#5
Quote by Kumanji
I think it's pretty much indefensible to censor any historical text; it's an anti-slavery book which uses the N-word in a manner which it is entirely appropriate to teach kids about within its historical context.


But when it's standing in the way of teaching kids due to outrage within the community? The problem I had with 60 Minutes, and the teacher, was that they seemed to put the censorship at the feet of the publishing house. I didn't see it that way, I think they just saw a business opportunity. The problem is with the schools and communities who banned the book due to the word. It bothers me how sensitive we've become.
Due what you want as long as you vote Due!
#7
I think you watched a repeat cause I made this thread 10 months ago.
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#8
Quote by Kumanji
I think it's pretty much indefensible to censor any historical text; it's an anti-slavery book which uses the N-word in a manner which it is entirely appropriate to teach kids about within its historical context.
This.

Alternatively, they could teach the book using the hipster version.
#9
I disagree. The best solution for any problem is shielding ourselves from it and pretending it doesn't exist.
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#10
Quote by tayroar
But when it's standing in the way of teaching kids due to outrage within the community? The problem I had with 60 Minutes, and the teacher, was that they seemed to put the censorship at the feet of the publishing house. I didn't see it that way, I think they just saw a business opportunity. The problem is with the schools and communities who banned the book due to the word. It bothers me how sensitive we've become.

Then the people who are outraged never read the book. But if they want to change something that's sympathetic to the slaves, that's cool, too.
Quote by vintage x metal
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#11
Quote by tayroar
But when it's standing in the way of teaching kids due to outrage within the community? The problem I had with 60 Minutes, and the teacher, was that they seemed to put the censorship at the feet of the publishing house. I didn't see it that way, I think they just saw a business opportunity. The problem is with the schools and communities who banned the book due to the word. It bothers me how sensitive we've become.

That's not the book's fault or Mark Twain's fault - that's 'communities' (or, more accurately, small numbers of highly agitated individuals) allowing their own personal foibles get in the way of teaching children how to be tolerant people.
#12
Quote by Jack Off Jill
Then the people who are outraged never read the book. But if they want to change something that's sympathetic to the slaves, that's cool, too.


Well, yeah, that's the problem. I think parents have too much power over schools, and schools cower a little too much at a parent's outrage. It's funny because I read something earlier about Stephen King commenting on his books being banned from a school, and he urged kids to read books being banned, to find out what your parents don't want you to know. To ban something seems to suggest that it presents such a better alternative to what you have to offer, that you're afraid of it.
Due what you want as long as you vote Due!
#14
Quote by metalh3ad88
Censorship is never good, regardless of context.


Because there's nothing wrong with exhibiting pornographic material to a 5 year old child.
#15
Quote by tayroar
Well, yeah, that's the problem. I think parents have too much power over schools, and schools cower a little too much at a parent's outrage. It's funny because I read something earlier about Stephen King commenting on his books being banned from a school, and he urged kids to read books being banned, to find out what your parents don't want you to know. To ban something seems to suggest that it presents such a better alternative to what you have to offer, that you're afraid of it.

I had Johnny the Homicidal Maniac taken from me at school based on the language and violence in it when my principal looked through it. I pointed out that we had Stephen King in the school library, and he did not consider that a reasonable argument. So I wound up just taking it out of his desk later that day. Son of a bitch.
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#16
Quote by blake1221
Because there's nothing wrong with exhibiting pornographic material to a 5 year old child.



A 5-year-old couldn't give less of a fuck about seeing porn, brah.
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#17
Quote by StewieSwan
A 5-year-old couldn't give less of a fuck about seeing porn, brah.


Seeing those images wouldn't have any kind of effect? Let's say for the sake of argument, it's like fucked up shit we're talking about here.
#18
Quote by blake1221
Seeing those images wouldn't have any kind of effect? Let's say for the sake of argument, it's like fucked up shit we're talking about here.



This is a debate for another thread. Let's not derail it and get it closed.
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#19
Quote by StewieSwan
This is a debate for another thread. Let's not derail it and get it closed.


Mmhmm. Just what I thought.

Confronted with a serious issue that's affecting our nation, and you'd rather just ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist.

It's people like you Stewie..


People like you.
#20
Quote by blake1221
Seeing those images wouldn't have any kind of effect? Let's say for the sake of argument, it's like fucked up shit we're talking about here.

I remember when I was a boy, I went rooting around my parent's bedroom looking for weaponry. I discovered a bunch of porno magazines beneath his mattress. Fairly normal stuff, except one of them was nothing but fat chicks. I asked him about it and he explained that when you buy a three pack of porno mags they hide the weird ones in between so it seems like you're getting a good deal. I told my friend David about it, and we ridiculed him relentlessly.

As the years went by, and we got the internet, I learned how to check history. Mainly to delete my own. And I'd always see fat chick porn on there. I didn't bring it up until a few years ago. Probably when I was around 21. My dad finally admitted that he has a thing for fat chicks.

Anyhoo, long story short: It didn't bother me any.
Quote by vintage x metal
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#21
Quote by Spartan101400
I think people need to quit bitching about WORDS, because they're just WORDS!

Words are words but it's silly to pretend like their connotations aren't important.

That said, it's even sillier to say "WHOA, 'the n-word' is way too offensive, and I'm not gonna read any books that use it."
#22
Quote by StewieSwan
This is a debate for another thread. Let's not derail it and get it closed.


I think it's a totally fair conversation for this thread. There must be something harmful about the things we censor for those younger than us, otherwise we wouldn't censor it. I was wondering about this earlier. If you do show these things to a child, what are the effects?
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#24
The trouble is that people are morons. Not the kids who are being exposed to the text but the people who are trying to stop them being exposed to it. It's irritating but never in life can you truly defeat the morons
#25
Quote by blake1221
Because there's nothing wrong with exhibiting pornographic material to a 5 year old child.


It's the duty of the 5 year old child's parents to prevent said child from viewing pornographic material.

There is no justifiable context in which censorship could be applied to legal adults. Happy now?
#26
What I think is interesting is the younger black community's liberal use of the N-word, though they have no direct connection to it. Their parents, who lived through the civil rights movement, don't use the word because they have in many cases heard it used towards them or their friends in a negative, derogatory manner. I feel as though if these people had more of a direct connection with the word, they would want to let it disappear like the older generation does.
#27
Quote by metalh3ad88
There is no justifiable context in which censorship could be applied to legal adults. Happy now?

High school kids aren't legal adults; the problem persists.
#28
Quote by tayroar
I think it's a totally fair conversation for this thread. There must be something harmful about the things we censor for those younger than us, otherwise we wouldn't censor it. I was wondering about this earlier. If you do show these things to a child, what are the effects?

Depends on context. If you give a kid Huckleberry Finn and expose him to the word negatively, he'll look at it negatively. I've used this as an example many times, but I was always allowed to watch violent movies and television. One of my first memories is watching Hellraiser with my dad. But he was always good about explaining how the make up was done, that it was imaginary, and no different than playing with my friends but with a bigger budget. I think it'd be the same thing, honestly.
Quote by vintage x metal
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#29
Quote by metalh3ad88
There is no justifiable context in which censorship could be applied to legal adults. Happy now?


I'm fucking ecstatic.
Quote by Jack Off Jill
Depends on context. If you give a kid Huckleberry Finn and expose him to the word negatively, he'll look at it negatively. I've used this as an example many times, but I was always allowed to watch violent movies and television. One of my first memories is watching Hellraiser with my dad. But he was always good about explaining how the make up was done, that it was imaginary, and no different than playing with my friends but with a bigger budget. I think it'd be the same thing, honestly.

Pretty good move by your dad. Mine just stuck with "it's not real, they're actors, don't actually go and kill people."
Last edited by blake1221 at Jun 12, 2011,
#30
Quote by blake1221
I'm fucking ecstatic.

Pretty good move by your dad. Mine just stuck with "it's not real, they're actors, don't actually go and kill people."
Here's one for you: Would rather have a 5 year-old be exposed to a video of some fruitful blonde getting railed doggstyle or some dude getting shot up and dying?

I would personally rather they see the porn, but a lot of people I've talked to disagree.
#31
Quote by due 07
Here's one for you: Would rather have a 5 year-old be exposed to a video of some fruitful blonde getting railed doggstyle or some dude getting shot up and dying?

I would personally rather they see the porn, but a lot of people I've talked to disagree.


I think the violence, since he's going to see a lot more on TV as it is.
#32
Quote by blake1221
I think the violence, since he's going to see a lot more on TV as it is.
I don't mean just violence though, I mean an actual, graphic killing.

I'm just curious as to what people think. So this question is extended to everypony.
#33
Quote by due 07
Here's one for you: Would rather have a 5 year-old be exposed to a video of some fruitful blonde getting railed doggstyle or some dude getting shot up and dying?

I would personally rather they see the porn, but a lot of people I've talked to disagree.


very very good point and a hard question to answer due to americans' cultural sexual squeemishness. Personally, I think the violence would be worse for the child since it encourages a horrible, and illegal act.
#34
Quote by due 07
Here's one for you: Would rather have a 5 year-old be exposed to a video of some fruitful blonde getting railed doggstyle or some dude getting shot up and dying?

I would personally rather they see the porn, but a lot of people I've talked to disagree.


I'd rather my child see neither, because they probably wouldn't understand either, but the argument is that violence isn't common in every day life, or atleast not of that magnitude, and sex is. It also depends on whether or not you're talking about a snuff film where the guy is actually being killed or a movie.
Due what you want as long as you vote Due!
#35
Quote by blake1221
I'm fucking ecstatic.

Pretty good move by your dad. Mine just stuck with "it's not real, they're actors, don't actually go and kill people."

The same method was done with my god children. My god daughter adores Chucky the killer doll because I bought one for her brother. He doesn't want anything to do with it, but she carries it around with her. She was at my house once and my older brother was watching Child's Play 2, and she wasn't bothered by it at all because it was just her buddy.
Quote by vintage x metal
I love you =] I can't say I was very fond of you when we first started talking because you trolled the hell out of my threads, but after talking to you here I've grown very attached to you.

Yeah, write to my fanclub about it, honey.
#36
Quote by due 07
I don't mean just violence though, I mean an actual, graphic killing.

I'm just curious as to what people think. So this question is extended to everypony.


Better question, some dude getting shot up, or expose them to a show that uses ponies to propagate the homosexual agenda, teach sexual innuendo to children, and desecrates the Church's statutes?
#37
Quote by due 07
I don't mean just violence though, I mean an actual, graphic killing.

I'm just curious as to what people think. So this question is extended to everypony.



The question we need to ask yourselves is which of the two we would rather see our children do eventually. Personally, I'd rather my kid bone a hot girl than murder someone.
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#38
A five-year old should be allowed to watch porn & action movies all they please if their parents or guardians deem it worthy.

When the kid turns out in stereotypical fashion and is a general menace or socially impotent, as is to be expected, won't the market have won? Won't capitalism, in all it's unbridled and unregulated win have won the day by truly showing what can happen when the wrong boxes are ticked?

de facto > de jure in this sense, perhaps.
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#39
Quote by StewieSwan
The question we need to ask yourselves is which of the two we would rather see our children do eventually. Personally, I'd rather my kid bone a hot girl than murder someone.

I'm okay with ladies growing up to think anal is acceptable.
Quote by vintage x metal
I love you =] I can't say I was very fond of you when we first started talking because you trolled the hell out of my threads, but after talking to you here I've grown very attached to you.

Yeah, write to my fanclub about it, honey.
#40
Quote by StewieSwan
The question we need to ask yourselves is which of the two we would rather see our children do eventually. Personally, I'd rather my kid bone a hot girl than murder someone.
EXACTLY.
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