#1
Hey, I have a questions about modes. Oh no!! :O

Let's take C major scale ( C D E F G A B C )

From what I learned today, in modes you just start with the next note and add another note from the end right << Playing scale descending or ascending (Whatever it is called when you are playing from low to high )

So Ionian would be ( D E F G A B C D ) right?
and Dorian would be ( E F G A B C D E ) ?
etc.......

Someone pls explain modes!!! :S
#2
I posted something similar yesterday, asking a question regarding what looked to me like a weird major scales, and was later told that I was playing a C# major scale, but I started it on F, making that my root note. People told me that was the Phyrgian mode so...I guess you're on the right track.
#3
Nope. Ionian is the natural major, R-2-3-4-5-6-7-R (in the case of C, C D E F G A B C). The next mode is Dorian, R-2-b3-4-5-6-b7-R (D E F G A B C D).

So:
1. Ionian: R-2-3-4-5-6-7
2. Dorian: R-2-b3-4-5-6-b7
3. Phrygian: R-b2-3-4-5-6-b7
4. Lydian: R-2-3-#4-5-6-7
5. Mixolydian: R-2-3-4-5-6-b7
6. Aeolian (natural minor): R-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7
7. Locrian: R-b2-b3-4-b5-b6-b7

The numbers mean what note you start on, for example Phrygian is the third mode, so in C major (all white keys on the piano) you would start on the third note, E, and play from E to E, all white keys. It may take a little while to memorize them all, but just like key signatures you eventually don't even think about them.

Hope this helped!
#4
In the key of C Major, the modes are as follows:


1. Ionian (Identical to the major scale of that key) - CDEFGABC
2. Dorian - DEFGABCD
3. Phrygian - EFGABCDE
4. Lydian - FGABCDEF
5. Mixolydian - GABCDEFG
6. Aeolian (Relative minor) - ABCDEFGA
7. Locrian - BCDEFGAB

In other words, the modes are just rearranged scales. This holds true for all keys, meaning that in the key of G for example, the modes are:

1. Ionian) - GABCDEF#G
2. Dorian - ABCDEF#GA
3. Phrygian - BCDEF#AB
4. Lydian - CDEF#GABC
5. Mixolydian - DEF#GABCD
6. Aeolian (I's relative minor, the key of E minor) - EF#GABCDE
7. Locrian - F#GABCDEF#

Think of modes as just different positions of playing scales on the fret board of the guitar. For example, if you play an C major scale at the Oth fret (Open strings), you are playing the phyrigian mode in the key of C major. as seen in the tab below


|------------------------------0
|------------------------0-1-3--
|--------------------0-2--------
|--------------0-2-3------------
|--------0-2-3------------------
|--0-1-3------------------------

^ If you were to convert the tab to sheet music you would see that the notes played are EFGABCDE, all notes that are IN the scale/key of C major, but ARRANGED diffferently. Because they are arranged differently, the intervals are different, giving each mode a different "feel", such as the phyrigian mode sounding very dark (It is one of the most commonly used modes in metal, look no further than the intro to Metallica's Harvester of Sorrow to see this mode in use).
For more information, the website http://www.zentao.com/guitar/modes/ has very good in depth explanation of modes.

Hope that helps
Last edited by The Baconator at Jun 13, 2011,
#5
Quote by The Baconator


Think of modes as just different positions of playing scales on the fret board of the guitar. For example, if you play an C major scale at the Oth fret (Open strings), you are playing the phyrigian mode in the key of C major. as seen in the tab below

No! No! And a thousand times NO!

Modes are nothing to do with patterns, positions, what order you play things in, where you start from or indeed any physical aspect of playing the guitar or any other instrument.

Most of the information in this thread regarding the names of the modes and the purest definition of them is technically correct. However the problem is that information is utterly useless to anyone unless they also understand the musical context in which those modes will apply.
Actually called Mark!

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#7
Quote by steven seagull
No! No! And a thousand times NO!

Modes are nothing to do with patterns, positions, what order you play things in, where you start from or indeed any physical aspect of playing the guitar or any other instrument.

Most of the information in this thread regarding the names of the modes and the purest definition of them is technically correct. However the problem is that information is utterly useless to anyone unless they also understand the musical context in which those modes will apply.


In our defense, he only asked about the technical definitions... hee hee. fail on my part.
#8
Seriously..why even think of modes in relation to their 'relative' major scale, whats the point? they just get confusing and make modes seem easier for beginners to understand when infact they just make them more confusing.

Get a copy of Frank Gambale's 'Modes - no more mystery', if you're serious about learning them you won't learn them from free lessons off the internet which are 95% wrong and buy the DVD.
#10
I find it interesting the amount of lessons/videos that start with "the modes in the key of C major". It's interesting because in the key of C major, modes don't apply. PARADOX!
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#12
Quote by MadDogM
Nope. Ionian is the natural major, R-2-3-4-5-6-7-R (in the case of C, C D E F G A B C). The next mode is Dorian, R-2-b3-4-5-6-b7-R (D E F G A B C D).

So:
1. Ionian: R-2-3-4-5-6-7
2. Dorian: R-2-b3-4-5-6-b7
3. Phrygian: R-b2-3-4-5-6-b7
4. Lydian: R-2-3-#4-5-6-7
5. Mixolydian: R-2-3-4-5-6-b7
6. Aeolian (natural minor): R-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7
7. Locrian: R-b2-b3-4-b5-b6-b7

The numbers mean what note you start on, for example Phrygian is the third mode, so in C major (all white keys on the piano) you would start on the third note, E, and play from E to E, all white keys. It may take a little while to memorize them all, but just like key signatures you eventually don't even think about them.

Hope this helped!


Thanks m8. I am starting to understand.


Quote by The Baconator
In the key of C Major, the modes are as follows:


1. Ionian (Identical to the major scale of that key) - CDEFGABC
2. Dorian - DEFGABCD
3. Phrygian - EFGABCDE
4. Lydian - FGABCDEF
5. Mixolydian - GABCDEFG
6. Aeolian (Relative minor) - ABCDEFGA
7. Locrian - BCDEFGAB

In other words, the modes are just rearranged scales. This holds true for all keys, meaning that in the key of G for example, the modes are:

1. Ionian) - GABCDEF#G
2. Dorian - ABCDEF#GA
3. Phrygian - BCDEF#AB
4. Lydian - CDEF#GABC
5. Mixolydian - DEF#GABCD
6. Aeolian (I's relative minor, the key of E minor) - EF#GABCDE
7. Locrian - F#GABCDEF#


Pretty sure this is wrong. :P


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This post is bad and wrong ... stop now!!!!!


What is? :P
#13
Quote by MaddMann274

Pretty sure this is wrong. :P


It isn't. That is exactly the same as what the guy you agreed with said.
#14
You have the modes. Applying them is one of the hardest things that you'll ever do. Any way that you do it will not be playing with modes.

Every way you try and use them will most likely be simply playing in Major/minor keys. And they will be only major keys or minor.

Exception is when you understand theory enough to apply them, or play to a single bas note drone and nothing else. Like an A Bass note that doesnt change, and you play A whatever...then that's playing modally.

The advice I would give you is regardless of what they call it, you can only play it as a major/minor scale, and in any key all you are doing is playing in that key, be it major or minor. Nothing you do in that, is modal. Its just a major/minor scale.

The reason is tonality. Modal progressions and chords are very limited and tend to not find easy resolution. If you start changing chords, say in Am to whatever, you've lost the tonality of the mode and it will pull to resolve somewhere else.

I have a student who also has toured around the world with bands and is good friends with the dudes in Dream Theatre. He's an amazing Progressive metal guitarist who's studied with Ron Jarzombek and Greg Howe. In other words, he can flat out smoke me. That's all well and good.

He's talking to me about his solo and demonstrating something one day (he's still learning other things from me we haven't even hit modes) and he says "I especially love this Mixolydian thing..." and rips a cool sounding lick.

"That's not Mixolydian..." I said quietly after he finished.

"What...yes it is, it's right here."..and he plays it again.

I said, "OK so what did you do...." He says "Well I played a G Mixolydian pattern right here but I started on the A note because it really sounds cooler".

"And what is the key of the song?"

"It's in A" (I knew this already).

Now he's looking at me with a strange mixture of disbelief and curiosity, as I explained that the scale that he started on the A note in G Mixolydian was actually an A Minor scale that he'd been playing all these years. I'll never forget the response...when it dawned on him all these years that he had NOT been jamming his lead in Mixolydian.

The he showed me his F Lydian Vai inspired licks...and I explained that those were in C Major, no matter how Vai-Like they sounded. After a while, his world was flipped. He's doing better now, and we've come a long way since then. But, modes are misunderstood and misapplied and miscalled by almost everyone that names them.


Best,

Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at Jun 14, 2011,
#16
Quote by TrueBlues
It isn't. That is exactly the same as what the guy you agreed with said.


I meant the formulae for the modes? :P
#17
Quote by MaddMann274
I meant the formulae for the modes? :P


I don't know what you mean by that.
Nothin that you quoted was technically wrong.