#1
Soooo.....I recently decided to be adventurous and dive into the world of chord substitution and things of the like. So to put some of my new knowledge into practice I back cycled in ii - V - I chord progressions and came up with this snazzy (if not common) progression in Eb major (roots only):

Eb, Ab, Db, Gb, B, E, A, D, G, C, F, Bb, Eb.

Now on the website I was learning off, it said that "...back cycling chords should generally be min7th(b5) to dom7(b9) because they resolve to a minor quality chord...".
So, something like this:
...AØ, D7(b9), GØ, C7(b9), F-7, Bb7, Ebmaj. END! YAY!


So now that I'm this far, I have 2 questions.

1) If I want this progression to start Ebmajor, how do I get to the point when I start with the Ø (b9) approach, because to me it sounds quite bizarre jumping from Ebmaj to straight into AbØ, Db(b9) and continuing until the final Ebmajor chord. What chords can be used to help me get there using the notes I have set out above as the roots?
(Now I know there are pretty much endless possibilities, but I'm just looking for a general idea/nudge in the right direction if possible)

2) Again, I'm sure that there are many other possibilities other than the Ø (b9) approach, but what are some other types of chords that I can use in place of these?(again using the notes set out above as the roots)...because it sounds quite repetitive going Ø (b9) Ø (b9) Ø (b9) the whole time.

Help with this would be awesome! :-)
Thanks!
#2
basically, backcycling is a fairly loose term, but can be thought of as adding in aditional chords to a chord progression, that either exist in a ii-V relationship, or have a tonic dominant relationship, or are at the very least a 4th away from the chord your landing on.
for example,
if i start in C major and have (/ for a new measure)

C / F / G7 / C /C / C/ A minor 7/ G7/C
I could do this

C Gm7 C7/ F Am7b5 D7b9/ G7/Em7 A7/ Dm7 G7/ C Bm7b5 E7/ A minor 7/ G7/C
basically, im adding either secondary dominants, or secondary ii-V's before most of the chords (which is essentially what backcycling is).
Find a lead sheet of night train, and one of Blues for Alice. compare the chord changes. blues for alice is riddled with backcycling, wheras night train is a very simple, straight blues (though a 36 bar form, but the first 12 are a 12 bar blues). compare and contrast, and experiment.
to answer your question
a min7 chord is traditionally used in a ii-V to a major chord, when dealing with melodic minor or dorian, or to a dominant chord.
a min7b5 chord is traditionally used in a ii-V to a minor chord (when using harmonic minor or natural minor) or an altered dominant (or as the ii chord when the V is an altered dominant to any chord).
though, if it sounds good, you can use a min7 and min7b5 chord interchangably (though a min7b5 chord is, to me, more associated with a minor chord, or an altered dominant)
all the best.
(insert self-aggrandizing quote here)
Last edited by tehREALcaptain at Jun 14, 2011,
#3
Quote by UnmagicMushroom
....

1) If I want this progression to start Ebmajor, how do I get to the point when I start with the Ø (b9) ..



Depends on the tune.

Backcycling is a turnaround technique -- you are anticipating the Bb7 -> EBMaj7 cadence. So you are asking, in essence, "If I have a V - I cadence that ends on Eb, what should the rest of the progression be?

Backcycling tells you how to reharmonize a ii-V-I, but that is not the full progression -- when you get to EbMaj7 you can go anywhere you like.

Quote by UnmagicMushroom


2) Again, I'm sure that there are many other possibilities other than the Ø (b9) approach, but what are some other types of chords that I can use in place of these?(again using the notes set out above as the roots)...because it sounds quite repetitive going Ø (b9) Ø (b9) Ø (b9) the whole time.


This is where it helps to remember that a 7b9 chord is a diminished chord and you can sub a dim7 on the 3, 5, b7 or b9 of the given chord -- G7b9 = B*7/G = D*7/G = F*7/G = Ab*7/G .

Also a 7b9 is an altered dominant chord -- what else fits the bill? 7#9, 7b5b9, 7b13, 7b5#9b13, etc etc etc.

And this turnaround mirrors vi-iii-ii-V-I closely ... so you can pick chords from that progression as subs and add whatever extensions you like.

HTH