#1
This may be a dumb question, but when I move up, or down one string when alternate picking, I move to the opposite -either inside, or outside picking. Example.
3--4--5- ----------------
-2---5-------5---4---3-
----------------4----4--


I start the section inside picking, but as soon as I switch strings, I without thinking switch to outside picking, is that correct?? Or should I be consistent with inside or outside picking when skipping strings? For me inside picking is so much easier than outside picking, I am not sure when I should use outside picking, it only feels right to use it when I skip strings.
Quote by AeolianSeventh
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Last edited by cooper1965 at Jun 13, 2011,
#2
I'm not 100% sure I understand the question to be honest... really though it depends what you're doing in terms of picking surrounding the string change. If you economy pick you'll often find that most string changes become inside picking and if you're strict alternate picking it depends entirely on whatever stroke came before it and so on.

I don't know if that helps or not...
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#3
I personally prefer outside picking, so that's a taste thing, but if you're going for strict alternate picking, then yes, you would switch from one to the other in this scenario. If you stayed inside picking for both then it would be closer to a form of economy picking, so it really depends what you're aiming for. If you want strict alternate picking (like Paul Gilbert) then change, but if you want economy picking (like John Petrucci (I think)) then do inside for both.
#4
Quote by theknuckster
if you want economy picking (like John Petrucci (I think)) then do inside for both.


'Trooch is a pretty damn pure alternate picker, he only economy picks anything if he's doing full blown sweeps.
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


Album.
Legion.
#5
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
'Trooch is a pretty damn pure alternate picker, he only economy picks anything if he's doing full blown sweeps.

My bad, I know he plays a lot of legato stuff, and I guessed that'd include some economy picking. Who are some famous economy pickers then, come to think of it?
#6
Quote by cooper1965
This may be a dumb question, but when I move up, or down one string when alternate picking, I move to the opposite -either inside, or outside picking. Example.
3--4--5------------------  
-2---5-------5---4---3-
----------------4----4--



I start the section inside picking, but as soon as I switch strings, I without thinking switch to outside picking, is that correct?? Or should I be consistent with inside or outside picking when skipping strings? For me inside picking is so much easier than outside picking, I am not sure when I should use outside picking, it only feels right to use it when I skip strings.

Quite honestly, there really isn't such a thing as correct for inside and outside picking. Ultimately, it comes down to what feels most comfortable. There isn't a real difference in sound, so inside vs. outside picking is a matter of comfort and personal discretion. If switching works for you, that's fine. The only question of right and wrong here is whether or not how you're playing is causing you any tension or discomfort playing. If it is, it's wrong. If not, you're fine.

Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
'Trooch is a pretty damn pure alternate picker, he only economy picks anything if he's doing full blown sweeps.

For a while, I managed to convince myself that literally everything he has ever played was alternate picking. I imagine if he could, he would. Does he sweep anything besides the Glass Prison arpeggios?

Quote by theknuckster
My bad, I know he plays a lot of legato stuff, and I guessed that'd include some economy picking. Who are some famous economy pickers then, come to think of it?

That isn't legato. That is one-handed alternate picking.
#7
Thanks for the info guys. Do you believe there is a huge need for me to really develop my outside picking? I could always use the economy approach when skipping strings to get back to inside picking. Or is it important to develop both equally? I'm really struggling on outside picking, and I would hate to waste a huge amount of practice time on it if it really isn't necessary. Thanks again for the input.
Quote by AeolianSeventh
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#8
I really don't see it as necessary. If you already have the skills to play what you want to without investing time learning another ultra-specific technique to do the same thing, I don't see a reason to learn to do outside picking as well.
#9
I start the section inside picking, but as soon as I switch strings, I without thinking switch to outside picking, is that correct?? Or should I be consistent with inside or outside picking when skipping strings?


I'm not really sure I understand the question. As soon as you switch strings? You mean after the first pickstroke or after moving the D and G strings?

If you strict alternate pick that lick (as many people would), you'll end up inside picking the first notes and outside the second half - because you're just going down-up no matter what. That's how you alternate pick.

If you're noticeably worse at one or the other you probably want to even out the difference a bit, you'll need to be good at both to pick well.

Does he sweep anything besides the Glass Prison arpeggios?


He picks those.

He sweeps a few other things though, can't remember what atm.
#10
Quote by Freepower
He picks those.

I've seen a number of videos of him sweeping them live. I figured he used sweep picking because it's a lot easier to do consistently live and it doesn't sound so different in a live situation that the fans would turn into a rabid mob or anything. But I've gotten way off topic.
#11
Yeah, the new string would start the outside picking. I am maintaining the up down , up down pattern. I guess I do need to even it out a bit, if I plan to correctly alternate pick. Outside picking just seems to go against economy of motion for me, my brain keeps saying "do inside picking, its faster" but I guess some situations will require outside picking for best speed results. I think I am over thinking this, or under thinking this..... Am i crazy?
Quote by AeolianSeventh
Maybe there are gnomes in your air conditioning vents using out-of-phase parabolic speakers to deaden vibrations from a distance.
Last edited by cooper1965 at Jun 13, 2011,
#12
Just stick with what is most comfortable. If you're able to play it cleanly at the tempo you want without tension and without discomfort, I don't think you can really justify learning to do something different.
#13
Quote by Geldin
Quite honestly, there really isn't such a thing as correct for inside and outside picking. Ultimately, it comes down to what feels most comfortable. There isn't a real difference in sound, so inside vs. outside picking is a matter of comfort and personal discretion. If switching works for you, that's fine. The only question of right and wrong here is whether or not how you're playing is causing you any tension or discomfort playing. If it is, it's wrong. If not, you're fine.


This.

End of thread.
#14
Quote by Freepower

He picks those.

He sweeps a few other things though, can't remember what atm.

He picked them in the studio, but mostly he sweeps them now. He used to pick them live every time they played it.

As for his sweeps, the solos to Stream Of Consciousness, As I Am, Endless Sacrifice, Fatal Tragedy, Constant Motion, and Dark Eternal Night all have sweeps, among others.
Quote by Geldin
Junior's usually at least a little terse, but he knows his stuff. I've always read his posts in a grouchy grandfather voice, a grouchy grandfather with a huge stiffy for alternate picking.
Besides that, he's right this time. As usual.
#15
Quote by cooper1965
I guess I do need to even it out a bit, if I plan to correctly alternate pick. Outside picking just seems to go against economy of motion for me, my brain keeps saying "do inside picking, its faster" but I guess some situations will require outside picking for best speed results. I think I am over thinking this, or under thinking this..... Am i crazy?

You sound very much like I was, and I don't believe you are over-thinking it at all.
In the end, your guitar playing is a direct result of all the most basic skills and habits you learned (or didn't learn) along the way.

My own experience... I eco picked for years because (1) outside picking seemed illogical / inefficient to me (2) some good players told me that eco picking was "better" (3) I had no teacher.... So I thought I was actually being smart about it.

Eventually it became very clear to me that I had imposed severe limitations on myself. And I ignored that fact for years anyway.
I could still be ignoring it, but instead I chose to fix it once and for all.

Completely re-learning how to pick, while simultaneously breaking many years of bad instincts... is a very hard, long road. It f---ing sucks.

I realize that you are not exactly like me, and you don't hav to change anything unless you want to.

But my message is that if you have any doubts or questions about how your are picking, and decide you want to change - do it right now. Don't put it off.
hope that helps.
#16
Quote by cringer
You sound very much like I was, and I don't believe you are over-thinking it at all.
In the end, your guitar playing is a direct result of all the most basic skills and habits you learned (or didn't learn) along the way.

My own experience... I eco picked for years because (1) outside picking seemed illogical / inefficient to me (2) some good players told me that eco picking was "better" (3) I had no teacher.... So I thought I was actually being smart about it.

Eventually it became very clear to me that I had imposed severe limitations on myself. And I ignored that fact for years anyway.
I could still be ignoring it, but instead I chose to fix it once and for all.

Completely re-learning how to pick, while simultaneously breaking many years of bad instincts... is a very hard, long road. It f---ing sucks.

I realize that you are not exactly like me, and you don't hav to change anything unless you want to.

But my message is that if you have any doubts or questions about how your are picking, and decide you want to change - do it right now. Don't put it off.
hope that helps.

Thanks for your insight, it was what I needed to hear really. I started guitar pretty late "comparitively speaking" , became obsessed ,and I just really want to learn as much as possible, and begin new things with the correct technique the best I can. I would hate to realize I wasted xxx # of years of practice and training only achieve a certain "level", when if I had used the correct technique from the begining I would be much further.
Many members here have corrected me on so many things as far as my technique goes, I could not be more gratefull to those. Although its hard to weed out the "opinions" from the "real advice". I do thank you all.
Quote by AeolianSeventh
Maybe there are gnomes in your air conditioning vents using out-of-phase parabolic speakers to deaden vibrations from a distance.
Last edited by cooper1965 at Jun 14, 2011,
#17
If you want to pick really well you have to learn to outside pick really well or economy pick really well. I would suggest to try both out and listen to how they sound.

The important thing is to be really consistent. If you are keeping it "down-up" constantly then you're doing it right for alternate picking, you just need to practice a few licks to work on your outside picking. Most Paul Gilbert exercises focus on this, it's probably the trickiest movement in alternate picking.

Practice makes a huge difference. I used to prefer inside picking, then after practising outside, my preference was outside. Now I'd even hybrid pick a lot of things instead. You can adapt!

Although its hard to weed out the "opinions" from the "real advice". I do thank you all.


If in doubt, ask "why?". A lot of people simply parrot. A parrot can't answer that question and you learn the reasons behind things.

Just stick with what is most comfortable. If you're able to play it cleanly at the tempo you want without tension and without discomfort, I don't think you can really justify learning to do something different.


and if you don't think you'll need to play any better any time soon.

That's why I teach my pupils what I consider good technique - I don't insist on everyone following it, but it's important to avoid things that can be massive roadblocks later on.

One of the biggest roadblocks out there is inconsistent picking technique. I have a pupil who always does two consecutive upstrokes in certain lines - he will never play those lines at a really high standard unless he corrects that. It's a wall.

So, yeah, you're right, but those are big ifs in your statement and generally it's better to adopt technique which has more long term potential.
#18
I was having a simaler conundrum with simaler stuff a bit ago with alternate picking i think you need to be able to outside pick and inside pick i think weather u start with an up or a down pick and you keep the up and down going as you move around the fret board it works out youl end up doing both at differant times.

my problem i didnt realise i was already doing it properly but i was inconsistent big time with eather starting on a down pick or an up pick.


i just decided id try start evrything i do with a down pick becouse my teacher uses down picking and i discoverd that before i was doing both and with me being a begginer it was confusing my hands no end on how i was suposed to go to other strings n stuff.


i think thats right for alternate picking correct me if im wrong. hope that helps anyways

Last edited by asmileyfish at Jun 14, 2011,