#1
Not sure if this belongs here but..
Im pretty keen to start playing jazz
But (with much debate) I understand its a pretty difficult genre to play, in terms of theory etc.
Is there a sort of list of essential theory or some other such like for me to know before i get started? And then... How do i actually get started with jazz? Simply learn other jazz pieces? Thanks for any help
#2
listen to jazz. lots of it because jazz is mostly improvisation. i tried doing jazz with minimal listening and turned out badly. once i started listening to miles, wes, etc.. it gave me a much better feel for the genre.
#3
Definitely listen to as much jazz as possible.

Get a Fake book (the most abundant one would be "The Real Book") and try to learn some tunes from it, there are loaads in there.

I'm sort of in the process of learning Jazz so I'm not the best to consult, but when it comes to soloing, you're going to want to know arpeggios and chords inside out!
#4
Quote by Punk_Ninja
when it comes to soloing, you're going to want to know arpeggios and chords inside out!


I'm guessing that means extensions and inversions >.<
I know pretty simple chords, the basic maj, minor, 7s and 9s but not much else.

What musicians/pieces would be good to listen to.. i really have little knowledge of the genre. I know it sounds silly to want to play something you know little about but hey
#5
Quote by greeneyegat
What musicians/pieces would be good to listen to.. i really have little knowledge of the genre. I know it sounds silly to want to play something you know little about but hey


For jazz guitar, it simply doesn't get better than the classic Wes Montgomery recordings, specifically Boss Guitar, The Incredible Jazz Guitar of Wes Montgomery, and Smokin' at the Half Note.
Get baked, study theory.

Quote by :-D
Why are you bringing Cm into this?
Last edited by Instrumetal at Jun 14, 2011,
#6
Jazz is the most eclectic kind of music there is and while it is quite difficult to accomplish, it is admirable to try at the very least. If you want to get started, I'd suggest obtaining the numerous books, mostly by Hal Leonard, about Jazz technique and theory as well as a copy of Rik Emmett's sensational Jazz masterpiece Swing Shift, since it features one song for every style of Jazz there is.

Bebop Jazz
Swing Jazz
Acoustic Jazz
Hardbop Jazz
Driving Jazz
Modal Jazz
Latin Jazz
Free Jazz

And of course, the best Jazz style of them all: Smooth Jazz
Everybody Dies
Ignorance is NOT just what you DO NOT know but what you WILL NOT know

MY Soundcloud
Tears for toda la alegría que teníamos
Tears for todo el dolor
Las lágrimas de invierno que llevan dentro
Siempre gritar tu nombre
Estas lágrimas de invierno , voy a llorar por ti
Estas lágrimas de invierno , son solamente para usted
Last edited by AllJudasPriest at Jun 14, 2011,
#8
....Good point... im not actually sure what kind of jazz i even want to play.. Is it common for a musician to play several different kinds of jazz or focus on one kind of jazz?
#9
jazz is a language. learn it accordingly. immersion, baby steps and constant application.
#DTWD
#10
Quote by greeneyegat
....Good point... im not actually sure what kind of jazz i even want to play.. Is it common for a musician to play several different kinds of jazz or focus on one kind of jazz?

Yes. I don't really do lead (I hate arpeggiated soloing so it's never been something for me), but I love jazz rhythm. I play everything from smooth jazz to gypsy jazz to new orleans jazz. Learn different genres, and figure out how they developed.
Quote by EndTheRapture51
who pays five hundred fucking dollars for a burger
#11
Know all you can about theory. It cannot hurt you. You may not use it every song, but you won't get far without it, in terms of understanding what you are doing. You don't need theory to learn Jazz, as you can certainly play jazz and develop through imitation, but I'd argue that it's far better to know what's going on.

Best,

Sean
#12
Quote by Sean0913
Know all you can about theory. It cannot hurt you. You may not use it every song, but you won't get far without it, in terms of understanding what you are doing. You don't need theory to learn Jazz, as you can certainly play jazz and develop through imitation, but I'd argue that it's far better to know what's going on.

Best,

Sean


I've already thought about this, and i know i need to make theory a higher priority, but i'm not sure basically what to learn? I know intervals chords etc, although i'm not particularly good at working these things out by sight reading. Is sight reading necessary to play jazz? Also i know jazz usually involves 'playing the changes' like chord changes, key changes etc but im not sure how to go about this either?
#13
You're going to want to learn inversions of chords. You may know how to play a Cmaj7 chord, but can you play it in every position on the fretboard? You'll also want to learn major, minor, pentatonic, blues and harmonic minor scales in every position on the neck, in which case knowing finger patterns of different modes will help tremendously. You'll need to know more scales eventually but those are the basic ones to start with.


Scales, chord inversions, maj7, min7 and dom7 arpeggios, and ii-V-I patterns are the basics I started with, as well as learning and memorizing the most common standards like All The Things You Are, Autumn Leaves, How High The Moon, Satin Doll, etc. Listen to a lot of jazz, watch videos of jazz players, and PLAY WITH OTHERS!


and yes, learn to read music. Sight reading isn't absolutely necessary unless you're gigging or in an ensemble or something, but the more songs you learn by reading music, the better you will get at sight reading.
Last edited by MeGaDeth2314 at Jun 16, 2011,
#14
Thanks man thats a pretty huge help. I know the major scale all over the fretboard-ish, and hence the minor scale. I know positions more than notes, although im completely capable of finding notes etc. I can usually hear if what im playing is right. I know a couple of positions of arpeggios and such. I dont have much experience with inversions, although i've experienced them a few times and been capable of figuring out what the chord was. This has all been quite helpful to help me get started Thank you all
#15
Quote by Banjocal
Yes. I don't really do lead (I hate arpeggiated soloing so it's never been something for me), but I love jazz rhythm. I play everything from smooth jazz to gypsy jazz to new orleans jazz...
Um, since when has any Jazz lead playing anything but abstract bent back knuckle chords? The lead phrasing in most Jazz are just chords, so I am a little confused here.
Everybody Dies
Ignorance is NOT just what you DO NOT know but what you WILL NOT know

MY Soundcloud
Tears for toda la alegría que teníamos
Tears for todo el dolor
Las lágrimas de invierno que llevan dentro
Siempre gritar tu nombre
Estas lágrimas de invierno , voy a llorar por ti
Estas lágrimas de invierno , son solamente para usted
#16
Quote by AllJudasPriest
Um, since when has any Jazz lead playing anything but abstract bent back knuckle chords? The lead phrasing in most Jazz are just chords, so I am a little confused here.

A lot of jazz soloing uses arpeggiation over the chords in the progression that the solo plays over. I dislike arpeggiated playing, so I stick to rhythm playing.

And can I ask what the hell "abstract bent back bare knuckle chords" are?
Quote by EndTheRapture51
who pays five hundred fucking dollars for a burger
#17
Quote by Banjocal
A lot of jazz soloing uses arpeggiation over the chords in the progression that the solo plays over. I dislike arpeggiated playing, so I stick to rhythm playing.

And can I ask what the hell "abstract bent back bare knuckle chords" are?
Well, in my years of studying Jazz I have noticed that almost every songbook dedicated to Jazz, rather it be a 1950's songbook or a 2011 Hal Leonard songbook, it seems entirely dedicated to chord playing.

Me and someone else here recently had a discussion about the origins of Jazz and Blues and you know what, Blues did not always play first position chords as their rhythmic player. Most early Blues, from what I heard, used these very difficult chords where you had to bend your wrist so far wide and back that most of the notes are dampened by your knuckles bending back and dampening the other notes in the chord.

Listen to Mickey Baker or Bo Diddley to get this effect very often. But if you want to see this live and up close I will post the video again that I did before about Bebop Jazz that not only incorporated the Abstract Bent Back Knuckle chords, but also shows how 99% of all Jazz lead soloing is nothing but these types of chords.

Taste Of Steel

After watching that I refer you to this instructional video by the same guitar master and listen closely to his lesson regarding Jazz playing/composition and techniques after he shows how it is done live. The lesson starts at 1:31.
Everybody Dies
Ignorance is NOT just what you DO NOT know but what you WILL NOT know

MY Soundcloud
Tears for toda la alegría que teníamos
Tears for todo el dolor
Las lágrimas de invierno que llevan dentro
Siempre gritar tu nombre
Estas lágrimas de invierno , voy a llorar por ti
Estas lágrimas de invierno , son solamente para usted
Last edited by AllJudasPriest at Jun 16, 2011,
#18
^I nearly fell for that.

EDIT: finished watching the video now: okay: those chords are not particularly difficult, and barring an A-7 with your ring is not bare knuckle whatchamacallit, it is barring a chord with your ring, middle or pinkie finger. It is merely a different voicing of the chord to make it easier to move between chords (particularly ii v i progressions), and it omits the v of the chord in that particular A- voicing. those chords are not complex - they are just different voicings. as for blues using these chords, it is fairly obvious that blues musicians use and have used chords other than straight major chords and 7th chords.

And as for soloing, well...music is about chords. you could apply that whole "jazz soloing is about chords" to any genre which has ever used an arpeggio in a solo. in jazz soloing, many guitar players arpeggiate the notes of the chord it is played over rather than solo just with a scale for the whole solo because arpeggios have more musical relevance to the progression. However, chords do not really come into soloing like that: the progression he played at the start of the instructional video was a chord progression with licks in between, not a solo. To say chords are all that were really used in solos is a bit illogical because I hardly ever hear a strummed solo. In terms of arpeggios it is more accurate, but many jazz players also make use of modes and simple scale licks to play a solo.
Quote by EndTheRapture51
who pays five hundred fucking dollars for a burger
Last edited by Banjocal at Jun 16, 2011,
#19
Quote by Banjocal
^I nearly fell for that.
What do you mean?
Everybody Dies
Ignorance is NOT just what you DO NOT know but what you WILL NOT know

MY Soundcloud
Tears for toda la alegría que teníamos
Tears for todo el dolor
Las lágrimas de invierno que llevan dentro
Siempre gritar tu nombre
Estas lágrimas de invierno , voy a llorar por ti
Estas lágrimas de invierno , son solamente para usted
#20
I'd agree if you were talking about chord melodies, as some of them can be knuckle busters.

But it's nothing to play some Freddie Green compings and throw an extension. I studied with Jimmy Bruno, and he does later have some pianistic chord compings that take a while to manage, but by and large, in an ensemble there are lots of way that a jazz guitarist can make it easier on himself.

Sean
#21
Quote by Banjocal
^I nearly fell for that.


And as for soloing, well...music is about chords. you could apply that whole "jazz soloing is about chords" to any genre which has ever used an arpeggio in a solo. in jazz soloing, many guitar players arpeggiate the notes of the chord it is played over rather than solo just with a scale for the whole solo because arpeggios have more musical relevance to the progression. However, chords do not really come into soloing like that: the progression he played at the start of the instructional video was a chord progression with licks in between, not a solo. To say chords are all that were really used in solos is a bit illogical because I hardly ever hear a strummed solo. In terms of arpeggios it is more accurate, but many jazz players also make use of modes and simple scale licks to play a solo.


Check out the my post of Hal Galper master class
#22
Quote by jayx124
Check out the my post of Hal Galper master class

I looked in the last page but I can't see it: would you mind posting it again?
Quote by EndTheRapture51
who pays five hundred fucking dollars for a burger
#24
Quote by Banjocal
EDIT: finished watching the video now: okay: those chords are not particularly difficult, and barring an A-7 with your ring is not bare knuckle whatchamacallit, it is barring a chord with your ring, middle or pinkie finger. It is merely a different voicing of the chord to make it easier to move between chords (particularly ii v i progressions), and it omits the v of the chord in that particular A- voicing. those chords are not complex - they are just different voicings. as for blues using these chords, it is fairly obvious that blues musicians use and have used chords other than straight major chords and 7th chords.
There is no chord that is hard to play in and of itself, but to solo chords is VERY hard. So I really do not understand the rest of this posts section.
Quote by Banjocal
And as for soloing, well...music is about chords. you could apply that whole "jazz soloing is about chords" to any genre which has ever used an arpeggio in a solo. in jazz soloing, many guitar players arpeggiate the notes of the chord it is played over rather than solo just with a scale for the whole solo because arpeggios have more musical relevance to the progression. However, chords do not really come into soloing like that: the progression he played at the start of the instructional video was a chord progression with licks in between, not a solo. To say chords are all that were really used in solos is a bit illogical because I hardly ever hear a strummed solo. In terms of arpeggios it is more accurate, but many jazz players also make use of modes and simple scale licks to play a solo.
Okay, this I think was different than what I have been referring to. First, I know Blues uses more than just root and first position chords.

Second, a guitar solo in Jazz is nothing whatsoever like a guitar solo in Metal or Blues where there is standard shredding and wanking for the most part. Playing licks in between chords is literally no different than not playing the licks in between chords, by definition, the lick is indispensable. When it comes to Jazz, the ONLY thing that matters are the chords. This is the very reason why a Jazz guitarist can play a solo section for five minutes of nothing but plucking each note of a chord in an appregio fashion. On the occasions where Jazz guitarists will borderline on shredding, it is still JUST chord phrasings as well as chord jumping. Sort Of Like This
Everybody Dies
Ignorance is NOT just what you DO NOT know but what you WILL NOT know

MY Soundcloud
Tears for toda la alegría que teníamos
Tears for todo el dolor
Las lágrimas de invierno que llevan dentro
Siempre gritar tu nombre
Estas lágrimas de invierno , voy a llorar por ti
Estas lágrimas de invierno , son solamente para usted
#25
I think people are getting 'guitar solo' confused with 'solo guitar...'
Quote by metal4all
Just, no. Locrian should be treated like that gay cousin. Just avoid him cuz he's weird, unstable, and is attracted to the wrong thing.


Quote by steven seagull
Big deal, I bought a hamster once and they put that in a box...doesn't make it a scale.
#26
Don't forget Joe Pass, Grant Green, and Herb Ellis!
"You know what's the loudest noise in the world, man? The loudest noise in the world is silence." - Thelonious Monk
#27
#28
Make sure you enjoy listening to Jazz. I doubt you will enjoy it very much if you dont even like listening to it. And Jazz CAN be complicated. There are tons of easy Jazz songs and Jazz musicians who are not very technically skilled.