#1
Hey dudes, my band has a gig coming up and after not being able to hear ourselves last time we've decided to do it properly. The venue we are at has a basic P.A setup, including a mxing desk, two foldbacks and speakers on each side of the room (for the crowd). Last time we played there we just had everything raw and only ran vocals through the P.A.

I've seen bands before using their line outs to plug into the P.A. This is obviously easier than setting up a mic on an amp, but are their any drawbacks? If not then do you just run a line out into the mixer then everything is fully controllable? Do mixers only take XLR cables or do 1/4" cables work too?

If we were to mic up each amp, what is the easiest and best sounding way to do it?

We also have keyboard to amp up. Is this simply a matter of going straight from the output of the keyboard into the P.A?

What is the minimum needed to mic up drums? (would we be ok with a snare, bass and overhead)

Also any suggestions on who should be hearing what from the monitors would be very helpful

Thanks for any answers!
Jackson DK2M
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Last edited by sammo_boi at Jun 15, 2011,
#2
Miking the cab sounds far better than using a line out.
The keyboards will be fine straight into the desk. Most mixers will have both balanced XLR's and unbalanced 1/4" jacks. Normally the XLR's are for mic level and the 1/4" jacks are for line levels though on some desks you can switch the 1/4" jacks to handle either signal level.
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#3
I dunno it sounds pretty basic... usually venues that have a pa big enough to mic everything will have a sound engineer there to mic everything..
#4
They do have guy there running the P.A. Last time was our first gig so we figured that they would do it all for us, but when we got there all we were concerned about was getting it over and done with. I just make sure we get it right
Jackson DK2M
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#5
I've never been to a venue that didn't mic everything up without asking. That's odd.
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#6
The keyboard will be fine straight into the PA. There's no point in buying a keyboard amp and mic'ing it. I play my keyboard direct into my PA all the time, and it sounds great.

As far as line out vs mic'd amp.... depends on your amp. The line out on the mark IV sounds VERY good. In fact, it sounds so good I'd be hard pressed to tell a difference between it and putting an SM57 on the cab. But I know not all line outs are created equal. Maybe just try it out during sound check and see which you prefer.

How big is the venue? most of the time you won't need to mic the drums unless it's a pretty big place.

Whoever is singing will want their vocals to cut through their monitor mix more than anything else. Most bad singers are bad because they can't hear themselves, and get off key. Other than that it's all preference... As a guitarist, as long as I can barely hear myself I'm ok. I actually prefer to have the vocals come through the monitor louder than the guitar. To me it makes it easier to stay on track in a song... But like I said, it's all preference. If you don't really know what to have in the monitor, just ask the sound guy how bands usually mix the monitors for that venue.
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#7
Quote by MatrixClaw
I've never been to a venue that didn't mic everything up without asking. That's odd.


Not sure if serious.

Quote by jpatan
The keyboard will be fine straight into the PA. There's no point in buying a keyboard amp and mic'ing it. I play my keyboard direct into my PA all the time, and it sounds great.

As far as line out vs mic'd amp.... depends on your amp. The line out on the mark IV sounds VERY good. In fact, it sounds so good I'd be hard pressed to tell a difference between it and putting an SM57 on the cab. But I know not all line outs are created equal. Maybe just try it out during sound check and see which you prefer.

How big is the venue? most of the time you won't need to mic the drums unless it's a pretty big place.

Whoever is singing will want their vocals to cut through their monitor mix more than anything else. Most bad singers are bad because they can't hear themselves, and get off key. Other than that it's all preference... As a guitarist, as long as I can barely hear myself I'm ok. I actually prefer to have the vocals come through the monitor louder than the guitar. To me it makes it easier to stay on track in a song... But like I said, it's all preference. If you don't really know what to have in the monitor, just ask the sound guy how bands usually mix the monitors for that venue.


It's a pretty small venue. It's a small hall, made from weatherboard (hardwood or something idk what you'd call it) so it can't be extremely loud. That does make sense, I'd like to be able to distinguish the difference between my guitar and the rhythms guitar, but that is about all. And if I'm playing a solo I have to be able to hear it

Does anyone know what the line out is like on the Bugera 333xl or GSP1101?
Jackson DK2M
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Peavey 6505
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#8
The advice given so far is good. Let the engineer take care of micing the amps up. I'm more of a fan of micing the guitar amps, bass can usually get away with going direct or line out through their amp.

Kick, snare, and overhead is probably the minimum you will want to use on the drums. My band has gotten by with less, but nowadays this is generally our minimum setup for the smallest of venues. One thing I can't stress enough is to always mic the drums. I've been to places where 2 acoustic guitars and 2 vocal mics have drowned out the drums (this was also due to a horrible engineer), so don't let the venue size fool you. Even if the engineer has to turn the drums way down, at least you know they'll be there if you need to raise the levels more.
#9
so far ive had nothing but bad experiences with sound engineers id like to trust them becasue alot of the time itd help, but the ones ive dealt with have pissed me off and given my band bad results.....
#10
ALWAYS mic at least the drumset's kick and snare if you have the opportunity.
#11
Foldback is good - the last couple of gigs I've played I have had to pretty much guess and watch the drummer throughout. Even asking for my monitors to be turned up.
Luckily a friend (who was an engineer) said it still sounded good out front. Although a less experienced band lost it a couple of times later in one of the evenings. You could see the confusion coming over the bassist and lead guitarists faces.

For drums I'd insist on two overheads, something on snare, a mic on kick and another above the floor tom. High hats too, if the board is big enough (played venues that have 8 tracks... not ideal, but them's the breaks).

Guitars and bass - my preference has always been to have them mic'd - never liked the line out signal for live or recording and find it to be a useless inclusion on 99.9% of amps.

For the foldback - the singer needs to hear him/herself and a little guitar. I have the bass and vocals mainly coming through in front of me and our bassist has a little of me and the vocals. Our drummer is content with a side fill feeding him vocals and bass and I usually try to ensure that my amp (depending on how many I am using) is within audible range of his stage position.
It's an opinion. It's subjective. And I'm right, anyway.
#12
Ok thanks, you've given me some really useful info.

The venue only had 6 mics.. so there's a little problem. We can add in one of our own.

We have two singers, so we need one mic for each. Then one for each of our guitarists. That leaves 2 or 3 mics for the rest.

This being the case, what would you recommend for the drums? Keeping in mind it is a really small venue.
Jackson DK2M
ESP LTD M-200FM w/Tone Zone + PAF Pro
Ibanez RG7321
Digitech Whammy IV
Digitech GSP1101
Furman M-10 LxE
Peavey 6505
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#13
2 mics for vocals, 2 for amps, and if you have the option, I would go direct in on the bass amp to save a mic. That leaves 2 or hopefully 3 mics for drums. You'll just have to cover the basics: kick, snare, and overhead. If you only end up with two mics for drums I guess you could try and get by with just kick and overhead.
#14
^this

Kick and snare would be the essential areas to cover with the kit. It not being a small venue and some judicious volume tweaking on the desk to ensure that you're not overpowering the drums and all should be good.

OUt of interest, where in Australia are you? Never know - if it's close I may come...
It's an opinion. It's subjective. And I'm right, anyway.
#15
Quote by sammo_boi
Not sure if serious.

Dead serious. Unless it's like a coffee shop or something
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#16
In most pub gigs the only thing you need to mike up on the drums is the kick drum.

Edit. In Australia very few pubs have an on-site sound engineer, you're lucky if they even have a PA. If you are gigging in Australia you really need your own PA and your own engineer otherwise half of your earnings goes in PA rental.
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Last edited by Cathbard at Jun 17, 2011,
#17
Quote by Cathbard
In most pub gigs the only thing you need to mike up on the drums is the kick drum.

Edit. In Australia very few pubs have an on-site sound engineer, you're lucky if they even have a PA. If you are gigging in Australia you really need your own PA and your own engineer otherwise half of your earnings goes in PA rental.

I ttend to only book where there is a PA available; generally bars and venues with a reputation and equipment.
It's an opinion. It's subjective. And I'm right, anyway.
#18
Well my advice as somebody that's being playing pubs for about 30 years is to buy your own PA. Buying a PA was one of the best decisions I ever made, it opens up the job market substantially. You don't need a very big one to play a pub, 200W per side is enough to fill any pub and pubs are where 90% of the work is. I can't stress it enough - get your own PA.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#19
Quote by Seanthesheep
so far ive had nothing but bad experiences with sound engineers id like to trust them becasue alot of the time itd help, but the ones ive dealt with have pissed me off and given my band bad results.....


Let me share a tip with you. You should be very nice to your Sound Engineer. We control your sound. You piss us off... We turn your sound into pure piss.
I know this from personal experience. I'm a Sound Engineer.

I find it odd that a Sound Engineer wouldn't want to mic everything. I try to mic everything. By everything I mean everything, even the conga drums(Conditional on the venue.). Every single horn has a clip-on mic inside of it.
I don't know why someone wouldn't want full control over the sound.

Micing a cab kicks the shit out of DI any day.
..I was watching my death.
#20
Ok then that really does seem odd that he didn't do it then.

The only thing he said to me all night was to turn my amp down... I wasn't exactly happy

I'm on the sunny coast and our show is at Nambour It's the only place within half an hour that lets metal bands play and doesn't cost $2000 to rent for a night. The link in my sig will get you there.
Jackson DK2M
ESP LTD M-200FM w/Tone Zone + PAF Pro
Ibanez RG7321
Digitech Whammy IV
Digitech GSP1101
Furman M-10 LxE
Peavey 6505
ISP Decimator