#1
written a song with progression: C minor - Eb major - Bb major - F major

Is it a "I-iii-vii-IV" in C minor with a major fourth (some mode maybe? idk)
or a "ii-IV-I-V" in Bb major?

both Bb major and C minor scales sound ok over the progression but just wondering.

thanks in advance for your help
#3
C minor probably seems to work, because it looks alot like the Bb major scale, but the actual fitting scale would be c dorian, its basically the C minor scale, but with a major 6th.
#4
Quote by rkmad
written a song with progression: C minor - Eb major - Bb major - F major

Is it a "I-iii-vii-IV" in C minor with a major fourth (some mode maybe? idk)
or a "ii-IV-I-V" in Bb major?


Only you can tell us: listen to where it feels resolved. That is the key of the song.

The major fourth (should it be in C minor) is derived from melodic minor. Notice that you're using the III and VII from natural minor, so don't just use melodic minor over the whole thing (or natural minor for that matter.)

I can see this one going both ways though, both have a IV - cadence, so neither particularly stands out without hearing it.
Nothing that is worthwhile in life will ever come easy.
#5
ok that makes sense... c dorian because of the major sixth which is an a note because that is the major 3rd to F as opposed to minor third...? or am i just making things up?
#6
Given that it starts in the 1st in the Cmin arrangement Im gonna say its in Cmin. I was always taught that songs generally start an finish on the root or 1st note/chord whatever you wanna refer to it as.
#7
Quote by soviet_ska
Only you can tell us: listen to where it feels resolved. That is the key of the song.

The major fourth (should it be in C minor) is derived from melodic minor. Notice that you're using the III and VII from natural minor, so don't just use melodic minor over the whole thing (or natural minor for that matter.)

I can see this one going both ways though, both have a IV - cadence, so neither particularly stands out without hearing it.



i guess as far as resolving c minor feels better, especially with the vocal melody..

i was just trying to figure out for a solo which scale or scales i should use.. your second paragraph has confused me a bit.. what do u mean by "so dont just use melodic minor over the whole thing"?
#9
Quote by rkmad
ok that makes sense... c dorian because of the major sixth which is an a note because that is the major 3rd to F as opposed to minor third...? or am i just making things up?


You've got the reasoning right, but don't think of this as any sort of mode. It's either Bb major or C minor with a chord derived from melodic minor.
Nothing that is worthwhile in life will ever come easy.
#10
Quote by adamlangille
It could also just be in C minor with a borrowed IV chord from the parallel major


The IV of the parallel major would be an Ab major.

I'd go for C dorian here, cause you're starting on a C minor chord.
#11
thanks for all the help guys...

i guess i will probably do a lot of c minor pentatonic because the only difference between the Bb major scale and C minor scale is that A or Ab note..

preciate it
#12
Quote by Lanky24
Given that it starts in the 1st in the Cmin arrangement Im gonna say its in Cmin. I was always taught that songs generally start an finish on the root or 1st note/chord whatever you wanna refer to it as.


No, no, no! while this is often the case, it has no bearing on the actual key. It's resolution that counts.

Quote by rkmad
i guess as far as resolving c minor feels better, especially with the vocal melody..

i was just trying to figure out for a solo which scale or scales i should use.. your second paragraph has confused me a bit.. what do u mean by "so dont just use melodic minor over the whole thing"?


Good, I'm glad you were able to hear it. So, for clarification on my comment:

C natural minor: C D Eb F G Ab Bb
C melodic minor: C D Eb F G A B

So, your chords come from natural minor except for the F major, the major third being the natural A. If you shred/harmonize using only natural minor, hitting an Ab over the F won't sound great. Likewise, using the natural B from melodic minor over the Eb and Bb isn't the greatest idea. Natural minor will sound best over most of this, but be sure to raise the Ab to A when playing along with the F major.
Nothing that is worthwhile in life will ever come easy.
#13
Quote by soviet_ska
No, no, no! while this is often the case, it has no bearing on the actual key. It's resolution that counts.


Good, I'm glad you were able to hear it. So, for clarification on my comment:

C natural minor: C D Eb F G Ab Bb
C melodic minor: C D Eb F G A B

So, your chords come from natural minor except for the F major, the major third being the natural A. If you shred/harmonize using only natural minor, hitting an Ab over the F won't sound great. Likewise, using the natural B from melodic minor over the Eb and Bb isn't the greatest idea. Natural minor will sound best over most of this, but be sure to raise the Ab to A when playing along with the F major.



well said all around, thanks
#14
just a i - III - VII - IV in C minor with IV borrowed from C melodic minor

So it's 3 bars C natural minor and 1 bar C melodic minor or even C major to fool around a bit with the major 3rd.
#15
Quote by Ih5g
The IV of the parallel major would be an Ab major.

I'd go for C dorian here, cause you're starting on a C minor chord.


theoretically, it COULD be, but it's far more likely minor. as was mentioned, the most common analysis of this would treat the F major chord as borrowed from C melodic minor.

you could argue either way without being wrong, but the minor analysis would win out, simply because it falls better with music of the common practice period.
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