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#1
..No, this honestly isn't a troll thread. Let me explain:

My band plays a couple of covers which were originally recorded on solid state amps (such as this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jmIYyskDM8) and pretty much require that linear sort of tone, but the trouble is i don't want to take 2 amps to a gig, and i need more tube tones than solid state tones, as you'd expect, so what i need to do is find a way of emulating solid state tones through a tube amp.

i mean, you could say "lol, just use a tube amp, it sounds bettar!" but, no matter how much more pleasing and musical it may sound, it doesn't sound "right", if you know what i'm saying - there's too much dynamic response in the tone. it just sounds nothing like how it's meant to sound, through a tube amp

I'm guessing that the most logical way to achieve this would be with a distortion pedal into the clean channel, but i don't know of any particular distortion pedals that will do what i'm looking for, and it seems a lot of distortion pedals are designed to give a bit more dynamic response than a vintage (or should i say "retro"?) solid state tone

Basically i want something that is going to completely kill the dynamic response, provide a very sharp-edged crunch, without sounding thin or piercing. I've tried using my Boss DS-2 like that and it was just too shrill with the tone control past a certain point, but didn't have quite enough 'edge' with the tone turned back enough to take off the shrillness.

anyone have any ideas?
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#2
Errrrmmm... metal zone?

Could you just bring something like a Pod and go straight into the PA for this purpose?
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#3
Channel volume down master volume up? Less tube breakup means the distortion would be more sterile. Rolling up the gain would also compress the tone and make it less dynamic.
#4
Quote by Tyler.Allain
Channel volume down master volume up? Less tube breakup means the distortion would be more sterile. Rolling up the gain would also compress the tone and make it less dynamic.


That would give more poweramp clipping... which brings him further from the SS sound IMO.

I think one of the first things that needs to be addressed is the pick attack dynamics of a tube amp... and other than a different preamp section, I'm not sure what would do it.
Quote by Blompcube
it's so cool to hate Gibson, even the federal Department of Justice hates them.

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( . .) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
C('')('') signature to help him gain world domination.
#6
Quote by ragingkitty
Errrrmmm... metal zone?

Could you just bring something like a Pod and go straight into the PA for this purpose?


+1 matter of fact that's the only way short of bringing a second amp.
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Quote by FatalGear41

Right now, there are six and a half billion people on earth who don't care what kind of tubes you have in your amplifier
#7
Yeah a light compressor and an EQ after the preamp section set to knock out some low-mids and boost the treble would nail it, I would think. Or if your clean channel has a gain control, you could push that just a little and use a really cheap distortion pedal for most of the tone. A DS-1 or whatever the cheapest Digitech pedal is. So you could get most of the tone from the pedal with just a hint of tube gain to round off the tone and give it that more vintage vibe instead of clearly just being a cheap pedal.
#10
why do you need to get every tone of every cover exactly right. I used to cover RHCP, ACDC, metallica, GNR and many others using only a fender frontman and a few pedals. maybe it isn't exactly what you have in your head but in a live situation it is compeletely fine for the guitar tone to sound different from the original.
#12
this is speculative, and i haven't done this, so just an idea, so i figure i will try to help.

if you are looking to minimize dynamics, you could run your guitar into a 'metal' distortion pedal with the volume significantly higher than the volume on the channel, gain to where desired, and completely cliping via the distortion prior to V1 which in result in clipping V1, you wouldn't have the dynamics, but you would have the saturation, which if you tweak the EQ in the distortion pedal and on the amp you may be able to dial out a little bit.

again, sorry if this isn't right, its just an idea.
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#13
Pod into a PA sounded like the best idea so far. Tbh you gotta remember these songs were still recorded onto tape and possibly through tube preamps anyway which affects the dynamics and the sound on everything anyway.

I know that song, i think i've heard my dad playing it, but why do you need a SS amp for it? You could easily play all that and it would sound fine on a tube amp too :S It's not like when you've got earplugs in, and everyones banging away that you'll even be able to tell too much, and the mostly drunk audience won't either.

Quote by Matt15f
my god who would want to cover garbage like that


wtf, this is dr feelgood -_-
Last edited by Zoot Allures at Jun 17, 2011,
#14
Blomp? Srsly or trollin'?

Really?
I've bought, sold, and traded more gear than I care to admit.
#15
Quote by Zoot Allures
It's not like when you've got earplugs in, and everyones banging away that you'll even be able to tell too much, and the mostly drunk audience won't either.


I agree with this Blomp, the returns for emulating the SS tone is simply not worth the effort and costs. I really doubt the greater majority of the audience will be able to tel anyway.
Quote by Blompcube
it's so cool to hate Gibson, even the federal Department of Justice hates them.

( )( )
( . .) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
C('')('') signature to help him gain world domination.
#17
if anything i would plug in a compressor set to a pretty squishy setting. enough to kill most of your dynamics so you have that very flat tone
Originally posted by primusfan
When you crank up the gain to 10 and switch to the lead channel, it actually sounds like you are unjustifiably bombing an innocent foreign land.


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#20
A cheap comp like a boss CS-3, or the magnum 44 with a A/B switcheroo. (If you have a soldering iron I'd reccommend making a switcher as its super simple and will save you a bit of money).
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Quote by alans056
Maybe the price tag is clouding your judgment ?
yeah probably. Or the circuits.
#21
Thanks for the replies so far - i like some of these ideas

for the time being it's difficult for me to really test things unless they are in our rehearsal space where we can play at the same sort of volumes we're gigging at.

I know it's probably me being a bit picky about it, but if i'm being paid i want to do it just right, even if nobody notices.

I'm not trying to get an exactly solid state tone, i'm just trying to get something a bit closer to the original. It's not just the dynamic response i'm struggling with (maybe if i play it with a bit more of a "stiff" technique i could fix that), it's the overdrive quality too - it's very nearly clean, but it's got that little bit of hard-clipping in the note attack, which is very sharp and gritty sounding, but it's still a very low-gain sound with no saturation at all.

I'll try a few of these ideas though, but i can't really test them properly until the next band practice..

Quote by Matt15f
my god who would want to cover garbage like that

someone who gets paid to do it. like me.
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
Last edited by Blompcube at Jun 17, 2011,
#22
Maybe just a tubescreamer used for it's distortion instead of just as a boost? ie. turn up the Drive on the TS.
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#23
Quote by ragingkitty
Errrrmmm... metal zone?

Could you just bring something like a Pod and go straight into the PA for this purpose?


THe POD will still sound a lot more non linear than an SS amp


No ones suggesting the original Tube Screamer? It doesnt exactly respond to picking dynamics very well....
EDIT: Cath beat me
#24
Why don't you get a POD and plug it into the return of your FX Loop?
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#25
for the time being i'm gonna see what i can do with my fuzz face and the volume control. i found an old recording where i got a slightly similar crunchy tone and i think that was my fuzz face.

i might see if i can get our technician guy to build me a pedal based on the HH IC100 "sustain" ciruit (the HH IC100 is that silver-panel amp you can see behind the guitarist on the youtube clip in the OP). he did offer to build me a treble booster last week, until i requested an OC44 rangemaster clone

Perhaps a proco rat could do the job, too?
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#26
I'm sure he wouldn't mind making you a tubescreamer by the sounds of it. There are TS PCB's available all over the shop. You'd be hard pressed to find an FX kit dealer that didn't have a TS PCB. I got mine from tonepad.com and it's pretty good.
Most overdrive pedals are close to (or outright copies of) a tubescreamer and everybody and their dog knows how to mod them. It's the perfect and easiest starting point. Tweak a few resistor and capacitor values and he'll be able to get just what you are chasing I reckon.
A compressor may be worth building too. Can't hurt and it's always handy to have a compressor kicking around.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#27
Quote by Cathbard
I'm sure he wouldn't mind making you a tubescreamer by the sounds of it. There are TS PCB's available all over the shop. You'd be hard pressed to find an FX kit dealer that didn't have a TS PCB. I got mine from tonepad.com and it's pretty good.
Most overdrive pedals are close to (or outright copies of) a tubescreamer and everybody and their dog knows how to mod them. It's the perfect and easiest starting point. Tweak a few resistor and capacitor values and he'll be able to get just what you are chasing I reckon.
A compressor may be worth building too. Can't hurt and it's always handy to have a compressor kicking around.

i have a marshall compressor - it's ok, but it's not very transparent at all and the bypass seems to take all the detail out of the high frequencies...

i tried the fuzz face and got very close to the gritty but not even slightly saturated overdrive sound by rolling the volume back to almost zero - whether or not it'll cut through when i try with a full band is another matter entirely. the reason i don't use the fuzz face very often outside of recording is because of the way it kills mids.
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#28
i was about to recommend a roland jazz chorus. in fact, im almost positive that is what is being used in that original song.

pretty much one of the best clean amps invented. check out some you tubes. if you dont like the on board crunch, find a pedal that works for you. there are thousands of pedals. 1 will do what you want.

you asically said you dont want tube, solid state or a pedal. you have basically said you cannot play guitar by any means.
#29
Quote by ikey_
i was about to recommend a roland jazz chorus. in fact, im almost positive that is what is being used in that original song.

pretty much one of the best clean amps invented. check out some you tubes. if you dont like the on board crunch, find a pedal that works for you. there are thousands of pedals. 1 will do what you want.

you asically said you dont want tube, solid state or a pedal. you have basically said you cannot play guitar by any means.

it's not a jazz chorus, it's a HH IC100

i think you misunderstood this thread. in its simplest form, i'm looking for a way to get a grittier overdrive tone and less dynamic response out of a tube amp, preferably in the form of a pedal.
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#32
It's a shame you don't have a boss modelling wah tbh, i just thought of that, i've got one that i've borrowed and the wah models are good but it also has a 'drive' , meant to replicate the big muff but it sounds pretty bad , i think that set very low would probably be your money.
#33
http://www.traynoramps.com/products.asp?id=439&cat=56&type=4

*shrug* A more versatile alternative to the EHX 44 Magnum / 22 Caliber. $230 CAD.
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Last edited by Slash_is_a_God at Jun 17, 2011,
#35
^ I've gigged with one and was fine while my YCV40 was on the fritz. *shrug*
Epi Explorer
Squier Vintage Modified Tele

Dunlop Crybaby (modded)
TC Polytune
Marshall ED-1
Vexter Box of Rock
Harmonic Jerkulator (home made)
Boss CE-3
Line6 Echo Park

Modified Traynor YCV40
Fender Super Champ XD
#36
Quote by fly135
Maybe a guitar with some P90's might help.

I dunno if this is a feasible option, but I'll second it. My guitar's got P90's and it can get nice & gritty when I run it straight into my Twin Reverb, & I've got an MXR Dyna Comp that can get me a nice clipping sound. Also bridge pickup & treble up to 10.
#39
Quote by joesix
Take a look at a Mesa Engineering Dual Rectifier. A simple flip of the rectifier switch and the response stiffens substantially. But you still get great tone.

my university has a couple of dual rectifiers... they are pretty versatile but something about them just doesn't do it for me.

I might be getting a 1971 HH IC100 head soon, just because i was gonna get one at some point anyway - needless to say that'll get me pretty damn close to the sound, but i don't know whether or not it'd sound right for the songs that need a bit more of a tube tone. if it does it'd be a bonus but that's not necessarily what i'm buying it for.
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
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