#1
I'm looking to put the Duncan SH2n + SH4 set in my Epiphone SG to replace the stock pickups. The stock ones have a very unusual gain response in comparison to my other guitars, as when my ST-2 distortion pedal's "loud" knob is set to 12o'clock, the level of the guitar is more than doubled from clean to distorted. It only has a similar level when I reduce the distortion pedal to a very minimal setting, whereas my LTD responds perfectly when it's at 12.

I was hoping someone could tell me whether the Duncan's have a similar response, or one which is more similar to my LTD?

Thanks
PRS SE Chris Robertson
PRS SE EG
PRS SE Angelus Custom
Yamaha SF1000 (Both of 'em)

Laney L20H Lionheart
Marshall 1936 w/ Eminence

Rather large pedalboard..
#2
What?

what do you mean by... the level of the gutiar is more than 2x from clean to distorted. I'm having some trouble visualising the change... can you put it point form?
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#3
^ i think he means when the pedal's volume is at 12 o'clock, when he kicks the pedal on, he gets a massive jump in volume.

i wonder might there be a dodgy solder joint in your epi or something? either that or maybe just the specific output those epi pups have are causing that with the way you have your amp and pedal set up.

fwiw personally i wouldn't put a jb/jazz set in a lp-style guitar. while the LP-style guitar can help ameliorate some of the "scream" or harsh treble that a lot of people don't like in the JB, it can get muddy very quickly, and can sort of leave you with a tone that's very hard to work with- it can still be pretty bright but if you try to compensate with amp settings things can get muddy very quickly. Also the big mid push that the JB has can make LPs sound very honky.

these are all things that make me not much like the JB in most guitars, but in the LP it can be hard to work with them, whereas in other styles of guitars (say, superstrats) you can sorta find a workaround.

Also the jazz is very warm, which again could be too much of a good thing in a LP.

Not saying they can't work, or be usable, just they wouldn't be my choices.
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I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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#4
Quote by Dave_Mc
^ i think he means when the pedal's volume is at 12 o'clock, when he kicks the pedal on, he gets a massive jump in volume.

i wonder might there be a dodgy solder joint in your epi or something? either that or maybe just the specific output those epi pups have are causing that with the way you have your amp and pedal set up.


Ahhh I see. Hmmm without testing the guitar + pups... and assuming that there are no problems, I believe the issue lies with the EQ of the pups, what could be happening is that the pups have a strong lower-mid response.

Hence when you engage the pedal, and it boosts the lower-mid frequencies, the additional frequency boost from the pedal added to the frequency emphasis of the pups could be causing a jump in volume.

However, thinking of this again... any boost would be relatively moderate, subtle at best... so i'm not sure if this could be the case.

Also, +1 to Dave's comments on the Pups... what amp do you have and how do you want to tweak your tone?
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#5
yeah... i'm not sure either. i could certainly see a bit of a difference, but a gigantic one?
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#6
The stock pickups in the SG already are very trebly and not great for mid responses, have awful sustain, and an incredibly low output + the massive volume jumps in response to distortion. I want to use it more often rather than using my LTD like 99% of the time, which has great mids, great sustain, and decent output level and response to distortion. The pickups in the LTD are duncan designed HB-102, and when I tried to find them I ended up getting a lot of feedback saying to try the JBs if I liked those once so much. It all seems good to me, I've heard loads of good reviews and all the demos and samples I've heard sound pretty good to me, a hell of a lot better than the stock ones, I can't stand them :L I can live with them for now, but only when I tweak my pedal settings to the extreme..
PRS SE Chris Robertson
PRS SE EG
PRS SE Angelus Custom
Yamaha SF1000 (Both of 'em)

Laney L20H Lionheart
Marshall 1936 w/ Eminence

Rather large pedalboard..
#7
You're probably getting a different response because the LTD's pickups compress the signal more being wound with a finer gauge of wire.... That's all I can guess.
Then there's this band called Slice The Cake...

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Mod in UG's Official Gain Whores
#8
yeah it might be something like the higher output pickups are a lot more compressed.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#9
so if the higher output are more compressed, is that why they're higher output? as in, does compression = high output? in which case, would any high output pickups have a better gain response?
PRS SE Chris Robertson
PRS SE EG
PRS SE Angelus Custom
Yamaha SF1000 (Both of 'em)

Laney L20H Lionheart
Marshall 1936 w/ Eminence

Rather large pedalboard..
#11
Quote by makutoid
so if the higher output are more compressed, is that why they're higher output? as in, does compression = high output? in which case, would any high output pickups have a better gain response?

It's not gain response, it's what the pedal does to the signal.

And you can't put a compressor on a guitar and expect it to be higher gain. Compression evens out the dynamics, basically making the louds softer and soft stuff louder. With a lower output pickup that doesn't compress the signal as much, you have more DYNAMICS! Therefore, bigger volume boost..

An increase in gain (signal strength) increases compression because as a signal gets hotter, it has less room to move up or down.

The whole thing about the wires in the pickup coils is more complex than you may understand at the moment, and it's too complex for me to be arsed to type out right now. Look up the info on this site (check out the GB&C) and on google for more info.

Long story short though, I would definitely get the new pickups, and try them out in the SG. Don't like em? Put them in your LTD and put the Duncan Designed pickups in the SG, and see if you like that any better. If not, sell the DDs and get something that better suits your SG.
Then there's this band called Slice The Cake...

Bunch of faggots putting random riffs together and calling it "progressive" deathcore.
Stupid name.
Probably picked "for teh lulz"

Mod in UG's Official Gain Whores
#12
Quote by TheQuailman
Wtf is supposed to be the problem, just turn down the volume on the pedal.


Firstly, thanks for being an a-hole, much appreciated <sarcasm off> Ever heard of switching guitars? It's a pain in the ass to do so effectively and quickly when you've gotta reset all of your pedals with each swap. With a digital multi-effects pedal its fine cause you can save the different sound banks but not when you're using a bunch of analogue too.

Shinozoku, you've actually been pretty damn helpful, thanks :P
PRS SE Chris Robertson
PRS SE EG
PRS SE Angelus Custom
Yamaha SF1000 (Both of 'em)

Laney L20H Lionheart
Marshall 1936 w/ Eminence

Rather large pedalboard..
#13
Quote by makutoid
so if the higher output are more compressed, is that why they're higher output? as in, does compression = high output? in which case, would any high output pickups have a better gain response?


well, probably the other way round, in that higher output pickups tend to be more compressed, but yeah, that's about the height of it.

though as quailman says, you could always just turn down the volume on the pedal
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#14
Quote by Dave_Mc
well, probably the other way round, in that higher output pickups tend to be more compressed, but yeah, that's about the height of it.

though as quailman says, you could always just turn down the volume on the pedal


I did just address that.. I do that when I'm only using the SG, but it means it's a bitch to swap guitars cause I have to change the settings on 3 pedals >.<
PRS SE Chris Robertson
PRS SE EG
PRS SE Angelus Custom
Yamaha SF1000 (Both of 'em)

Laney L20H Lionheart
Marshall 1936 w/ Eminence

Rather large pedalboard..
#15
yeah i wrote that before i saw your post.

I guess that is a problem... i guess you could go for similar pickups in all your guitars. but then you have the problem that all your guitars will sound similar...
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#16
That's cool

To be honest, I don't really mind them sounding similar due to the pickups as obviously the placement of the pickups, type of string, scale length, tuning, and build of the guitar will all effect the sound of it as well, but the pickups would then mean they'd all be similar output and gain response which is really what I want. Plus the main reason I want to use my SG more is just cause I love the feel of it and the look of it, and I'd love it to sound as good as my LTD so that I'd use it more.
PRS SE Chris Robertson
PRS SE EG
PRS SE Angelus Custom
Yamaha SF1000 (Both of 'em)

Laney L20H Lionheart
Marshall 1936 w/ Eminence

Rather large pedalboard..
#17
yeah, you're right, i mean in different guitars they won't sound identical. though they may sound fairly similar.

but i mean if you're ok with that, and actually want that because of the output thing, then that's fine.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#18
Sounding fairly similar isn't a problem for me as I absolutely love the sound of my LTD and it's taken me ages to find a guitar with that sound. Some of that is down to the guitar itself but the pickups make it too. It's the mids that bother me with the SG, as it results in an overall very treble heavy sound with a little bit of bass.

One thing I'm not sure on though, the SG is quite tight due to a longer scale length, and the sustain sucks. Will better pickups help the sustain, or is that purely down how long the string will vibrate for? I think what I mean is, will better pickups register the sound from the string for longer than cheap ones will?
PRS SE Chris Robertson
PRS SE EG
PRS SE Angelus Custom
Yamaha SF1000 (Both of 'em)

Laney L20H Lionheart
Marshall 1936 w/ Eminence

Rather large pedalboard..
#19
not sure. i'm guessing better pickups will help, but if the sustain's not there from the start...
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#20
It's not that there is no sustain, it's not great when it's not plugged it, but through an amp it does seem worse, which to me implies that the pickups stop receiving when the vibrations decrease passed a certain point. Well obviously.. but you know what I mean
PRS SE Chris Robertson
PRS SE EG
PRS SE Angelus Custom
Yamaha SF1000 (Both of 'em)

Laney L20H Lionheart
Marshall 1936 w/ Eminence

Rather large pedalboard..
#21
yeah, that's possible. i mean if you can determine that the pickups are at fault...
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#22
if i am understanding this thread right (its late here), i would experiment with pickup heights. until you really sit down and experiment with the pickups as far as height of the whole pickup and the treble side vs. the bass side, you are not going to get the optimal tone out of it.

three eithths of an inch can make a huge difference in the tone of a pickup, enough to love or hate.

i got a gibson a while a go (actually quite a few yers ago) that was supposedly setup professionally prior to the sale (CL deal), and it looked like it had some great work done, and i had no reason not to believe it. i was playing it for a while over the weeks/ months and just cound't figure out why i wasn't getting the tone i was out of it. so out of pure experimentation i adjusted the heights, and the guitar really woke up and had bite and the neck bucker was liquid smooth and deeper/bassier.

really sit down for 10 mins, i bet that will change your mind.
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#23
That's something I will try out later, thanks But it doesn't solve the dodgy gain response...
PRS SE Chris Robertson
PRS SE EG
PRS SE Angelus Custom
Yamaha SF1000 (Both of 'em)

Laney L20H Lionheart
Marshall 1936 w/ Eminence

Rather large pedalboard..
#24
ah yeah good call. fiddling with the pickups might do what you want and save you some money. and if it doesn't, no harm done.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#25
Awesome, I'll attack it with a screwdriver tomorrow when I've hooked it up with the rest of my gear, get a decent feel for it then Thanks!
PRS SE Chris Robertson
PRS SE EG
PRS SE Angelus Custom
Yamaha SF1000 (Both of 'em)

Laney L20H Lionheart
Marshall 1936 w/ Eminence

Rather large pedalboard..
#26
Quote by makutoid
Awesome, I'll attack it with a screwdriver tomorrow when I've hooked it up with the rest of my gear, get a decent feel for it then Thanks!


honestly there have been so many guitars i have owned that didn't sound right to my ears that just simply adjusting pickup height, brings out good tone, even with stock pickups in lower end guitars. i have this older washburn dime guitar (keep in mind i was 14), was a relatively cheap guitar, but i just hated the tone of it when i got it. i was like ready to send it back, but i adjusted the height, and it got the tone i wanted. still today whenever i pull the giutar put it sounds pretty damn good, even considering most of my other guitars.

for example i have a gibby with BB's, i find that i cannot tolerate the bridge if i don't lower it quite a bit (keep in mind this is for blues), it just sounds to peaky, but i find that i really like the neck raised higher on the bass side. i t just does what i want.

so try it out. and good luck and i hope this is the quick/easy/free solutoin.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


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youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/