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#1
Hello all, need your help here.

My guitarist in the band has one of these amps using a les paul studio, but he isnt getting a good metal tone from it, it sounds more heavy rock, not metal.

What is a good way to metal these up, would changing the tubes or even a tube screamer work?
Running through:

Engl Fireball
Engl Slanted Cab
Ibanez Xiphos
Schecter C-1 FR Black
Ibanez GRG (on its way)

Pedals:
Boss Noise Gate, Zakk Wylde Overdrive, Boss Tuner, Zakk Wylde Wah.
#2
Quote by avenge the rage
Hello all, need your help here.

My guitarist in the band has one of these amps using a les paul studio, but he isnt getting a good metal tone from it, it sounds more heavy rock, not metal.

What is a good way to metal these up, would changing the tubes or even a tube screamer work?


I've never personally played one, but from my understanding, and from youtube vids, they can get pretty heavy.

What settings does he use? A tube screamer is always a good option.
Squier Strat
Behringer Fuzz
GFT-90
#3
He uses the same as me what what i can tell, but it just feels very thin compared to my tone, like they is no bite? if you get me?
Running through:

Engl Fireball
Engl Slanted Cab
Ibanez Xiphos
Schecter C-1 FR Black
Ibanez GRG (on its way)

Pedals:
Boss Noise Gate, Zakk Wylde Overdrive, Boss Tuner, Zakk Wylde Wah.
#5
You also have an amp that is almost 3 times the price compared to his.
Squier Strat
Behringer Fuzz
GFT-90
#6
you typically use a tubescreamer to add more gain and tighten up the bottom end; the 333xl has all the gain you'll ever really need. what eq settings does he use? and also, what amp do you have?

edit: engl fireball? good luck matching that tone with a 333xl.
#7
To spice up your metaltone,,I heard the Maxon OD-808 is a really good pedal.
But he should definitely go for Seymour Duncan Blackouts (active) or Seymour Duncan Invaders (passive) to get more of a high gain output.
#8
^ read his sig for his amp.

Yeah probably a tubescreamer would tighten up his tone. Tho I don't really understand why he wouldn't be able to get a metal tone out of a 333XL. They're pretty much built for it.

Maybe his pickups don't match for it? Also he shouldn't be using the same settings as your Fireball, as they're different amps with different characteristics.

Don't expect to be able to clone a Fireball tone with a 333XL.
Last edited by Syriel at Jun 19, 2011,
#9
Your Fireball is basically built for screaming metal tones... while the XXX (which the 333XL is based on) is a bright amp that is designed to be more versatile than metal.

Chances are, I think you're basically drowning the crap outta him, so in relative terms his 333 would sound to be more hard rock when compared to the screaming leads and chug from your Fireball.

Personally... I'd throw an OCD in 18V mode into the mix for the 333XL. However, what will happen is that the two of you will be fighting for space in the soundscape... so what you need to do after that is to sit down and tweak your amps together to find your place in the mix.
Quote by Blompcube
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#10
I'm surprised there hasn't been a joke involving Bugera and a Fireball yet.....

OT: The 333xl isn't designed just for metal where as your amp pretty much is. Like the others have suggested a boost could help. Also another big thing is do not scoop your mids it really won't help.
#11
Quote by dannycasevnx
I'm surprised there hasn't been a joke involving Bugera and a Fireball yet.....

OT: The 333xl isn't designed just for metal where as your amp pretty much is. Like the others have suggested a boost could help. Also another big thing is do not scoop your mids it really won't help.


Where you talking about the Bugera bursting into flames just so it can be called a Fireball as well?

The 333XL not designed for metal? Well it isn't exactly an amp made JUST for metal, but it does it well IMO.
#14
Right my setting are pretty much:

Gain: 2 o clock
Bass: 1 o clock
Mids: 1 o clock
Treble: 1 o clock
Presence: 1 o clock

I think he is using similar, but its thinner. I played my guitar through it and had the same problem.

The sounds do compliment each other. Just his is a lot thinner, but also his is louder.

He is using a Marshall cab
Running through:

Engl Fireball
Engl Slanted Cab
Ibanez Xiphos
Schecter C-1 FR Black
Ibanez GRG (on its way)

Pedals:
Boss Noise Gate, Zakk Wylde Overdrive, Boss Tuner, Zakk Wylde Wah.
#15
Could be the cab. Please don't tell me he's running it through an MG cab... tho I have this gakking suspicion he is.
Quote by Blompcube
it's so cool to hate Gibson, even the federal Department of Justice hates them.

( )( )
( . .) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
C('')('') signature to help him gain world domination.
#16
Quote by avenge the rage
Right my setting are pretty much:

Gain: 2 o clock
Bass: 1 o clock
Mids: 1 o clock
Treble: 1 o clock
Presence: 1 o clock

I think he is using similar, but its thinner. I played my guitar through it and had the same problem.

The sounds do compliment each other. Just his is a lot thinner, but also his is louder.

He is using a Marshall cab


Don't tell me its one of the MG cabs. Those SUCK. No questions asked.

I guess he should start with the cab.
#17
Here's what I use, if he doesnt find this as a metal tone, he's deaf.
Here's my at home tone, he'll have to change it when he's jamming with a bassist and whatnot though.

High gain input
Lead channel
presence is at 6-7
Treb is at 7
mid is at 4
bass is at 10 with the XL switch kicked in
and gain is at 3 O'clock.
ಠ_ಠ
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#18
Quote by coolstoryangus
Is he using a bugera cab?
bugera cabs suck..

They really arn't that bad. they're no mesa, but they're still better then most people say they are.
ಠ_ಠ
- Yes, My name is actually Terran -
- Not just a Starcraft fan -


Terran > Zerg and Protoss
#19
No its not a mg cab, think its the 1960 cab.

And what the problem is mainly is the thin sound. It needs fattening out, then it would sound heavy
Running through:

Engl Fireball
Engl Slanted Cab
Ibanez Xiphos
Schecter C-1 FR Black
Ibanez GRG (on its way)

Pedals:
Boss Noise Gate, Zakk Wylde Overdrive, Boss Tuner, Zakk Wylde Wah.
#20
Quote by avenge the rage
No its not a mg cab, think its the 1960 cab.

And what the problem is mainly is the thin sound. It needs fattening out, then it would sound heavy

Is it the one with V30's or the one with the GT75 whatever they are called's?
If its the latter, then there is your problem. Those are scooped sounding speakers, so he'll need to kick up his mids to be heard.
EDIT: Try bumping the mids and the bass, along with presence while cutting treble?
That in my experience creates a sort of pseudo scooped sound, you get a lot of bite without losing those mids.
A parametric EQ can also come in handy.
Last edited by GS LEAD 5 at Jun 19, 2011,
#21
Well i wouldnt 1960s (the non vintage 30 models) are scooped really but the speakers dont sound the best with american style amps not on there own anyway... Sound quite thin usually. I think they sound pretty good with marshalls etc though. Cabs make a big difference...
#22
Quote by coolstoryangus
Well i wouldnt 1960s (the non vintage 30 models) are scooped really but the speakers dont sound the best with american style amps not on there own anyway... Sound quite thin usually. I think they sound pretty good with marshalls etc though. Cabs make a big difference...


Scooped might not be the correct term, but yeah, Ive only played through them with a 6505/5150 and it didnt sound too good. Thin is the word.
#23
Well he tried it with other cabs and it was thinner. It's not a case of jot coming through the mix, his amp is louder, it just doesn't have balls
Running through:

Engl Fireball
Engl Slanted Cab
Ibanez Xiphos
Schecter C-1 FR Black
Ibanez GRG (on its way)

Pedals:
Boss Noise Gate, Zakk Wylde Overdrive, Boss Tuner, Zakk Wylde Wah.
#24
Quote by avenge the rage
Well he tried it with other cabs and it was thinner. It's not a case of jot coming through the mix, his amp is louder, it just doesn't have balls


Well, tell him to buy a Fireball then.
Squier Strat
Behringer Fuzz
GFT-90
#25
Quote by avenge the rage
Well he tried it with other cabs and it was thinner. It's not a case of jot coming through the mix, his amp is louder, it just doesn't have balls


What other cabs has he tried it with? Open back and smaller cab dimensions give lesser bass thump. You'd want closed back and large sized cabs.

Also, has he checked that one of his preamp tubes are dying?

A possibility is that due to the overall sound and tone of the band, somehow ya'all have left him with very little space.. hence he sounds drowned out and waddling in the mud.
Quote by Blompcube
it's so cool to hate Gibson, even the federal Department of Justice hates them.

( )( )
( . .) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
C('')('') signature to help him gain world domination.
#26
I don't think his tubes are dead, they look fine.

And he has space as he is louder.

He said he he tried it with laney, Orange, peavey, and others.

Would a noisegate and overdrive help?
Running through:

Engl Fireball
Engl Slanted Cab
Ibanez Xiphos
Schecter C-1 FR Black
Ibanez GRG (on its way)

Pedals:
Boss Noise Gate, Zakk Wylde Overdrive, Boss Tuner, Zakk Wylde Wah.
#27
Quote by avenge the rage
I don't think his tubes are dead, they look fine.


Dead tubes or dying tubes can still look fine.

Quote by avenge the rage
And he has space as he is louder.


You can be louder, but still stewing in the mix. In a band playing high gain chugga chugga, a sparkling clean guitar tone with chimming top end, with the presence high and a compressor can cut through and stand out like a wolf in a pack of sheep.

Louder =/= prominence in the mix

Quote by avenge the rage
Would a noisegate and overdrive help?


I don't understand what the noisegate is meant for since you didn't mention he had major hiss.

Also, If he feels that you're overpowering him, a cheaper approach can be to dial back on your gain?
Quote by Blompcube
it's so cool to hate Gibson, even the federal Department of Justice hates them.

( )( )
( . .) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
C('')('') signature to help him gain world domination.
Last edited by ragingkitty at Jun 19, 2011,
#28
Is he using the xl switch at all?
I have the 333 and it sounds pretty damn good, but I'm using a Krank rev cab with eminence V12's. Like has been stated it is no Engl, Mesa but mine sound realy good next to our other guitarists Marshall JVM and the other guitarists mesa Dual. Not as fat as the Mesa, but pretty damn chunky.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#29
He said its getting feedback too. If anything he is through the mix the most, just not very jeavt
Running through:

Engl Fireball
Engl Slanted Cab
Ibanez Xiphos
Schecter C-1 FR Black
Ibanez GRG (on its way)

Pedals:
Boss Noise Gate, Zakk Wylde Overdrive, Boss Tuner, Zakk Wylde Wah.
#30
Quote by avenge the rage
He said its getting feedback too. If anything he is through the mix the most, just not very jeavt


Feedback? Dude, check BOTH the preamp and power tubes. My guess is that some preamps ARE DEAD OR MICROPHONIC.
Quote by Blompcube
it's so cool to hate Gibson, even the federal Department of Justice hates them.

( )( )
( . .) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
C('')('') signature to help him gain world domination.
#31
Ah ok Il tell him to change the tubes. The lot.
Running through:

Engl Fireball
Engl Slanted Cab
Ibanez Xiphos
Schecter C-1 FR Black
Ibanez GRG (on its way)

Pedals:
Boss Noise Gate, Zakk Wylde Overdrive, Boss Tuner, Zakk Wylde Wah.
#32
yeah if he wants to save a few $ go to eurotubes.com and they have complete retube kits the KT77 hi-gian kit would d him pretty well.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#33
Quote by avenge the rage
Ah ok Il tell him to change the tubes. The lot.


If he changes ALL the tubes, it will probably cost him a spleen, a kidney and a testicle. Tubes aren't particularly cheap.

If its the preamp tubes, you only need to change the ones that are dying. However if you're changing power tubes, you need to change the lot.

IMO Bugera's QC and material quality tends to be suspect. I'd make it a point to do the pencil test on all the tubes. I wouldn't put it past them to load dead or dying tubes into a new amp.
Quote by Blompcube
it's so cool to hate Gibson, even the federal Department of Justice hates them.

( )( )
( . .) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
C('')('') signature to help him gain world domination.
#34
What's the pencil test?
Running through:

Engl Fireball
Engl Slanted Cab
Ibanez Xiphos
Schecter C-1 FR Black
Ibanez GRG (on its way)

Pedals:
Boss Noise Gate, Zakk Wylde Overdrive, Boss Tuner, Zakk Wylde Wah.
#35
Quote by ragingkitty
If he changes ALL the tubes, it will probably cost him a spleen, a kidney and a testicle. Tubes aren't particularly cheap.

If its the preamp tubes, you only need to change the ones that are dying. However if you're changing power tubes, you need to change the lot.

IMO Bugera's QC and material quality tends to be suspect. I'd make it a point to do the pencil test on all the tubes. I wouldn't put it past them to load dead or dying tubes into a new amp.


Tubes dont cost that much...
OK its a bugera so the purchaser might be cheap soo ya.. but yeah..
#36
Ah he was meant to get the jsx but the shop sold it so he got the bugera that was used like 2 times
Running through:

Engl Fireball
Engl Slanted Cab
Ibanez Xiphos
Schecter C-1 FR Black
Ibanez GRG (on its way)

Pedals:
Boss Noise Gate, Zakk Wylde Overdrive, Boss Tuner, Zakk Wylde Wah.
#37
bugeras tend to come with shite tubes as standard.
I'd get those changed.
If he doesnt like it he'll then have a bugera with good tubes in it that he can sell.
#38
Ah cool. What's the pencil test though?
Running through:

Engl Fireball
Engl Slanted Cab
Ibanez Xiphos
Schecter C-1 FR Black
Ibanez GRG (on its way)

Pedals:
Boss Noise Gate, Zakk Wylde Overdrive, Boss Tuner, Zakk Wylde Wah.
#39
Quote by avenge the rage
Ah cool. What's the pencil test though?

Guy owns a Fireball and doesnt know the pencil test.........

On a serious note, switch the amp on and gently tap each tube with the rubber end of a pencil. If you get a lot of noise when you do, then the tubes microphonic.
#40
Ah thanks. Il try that next time I use it
Running through:

Engl Fireball
Engl Slanted Cab
Ibanez Xiphos
Schecter C-1 FR Black
Ibanez GRG (on its way)

Pedals:
Boss Noise Gate, Zakk Wylde Overdrive, Boss Tuner, Zakk Wylde Wah.
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