#1
We're working on a new desktop tool for guitar tuition - it will be distributed for free, but we need help knowing what YOU need help with.

- What area of guitar do you need help with most?
- Is there any kind of 'tool' you wish you had that would help you learn? (ie. something that trained you to improve technique, or theory, or a practice diary/planner etc.)
- What would you think about a program that contained 100 exercises with video demonstrations ALL for 1 particular technique to help you master it completely, and then you could upgrade to get another 100 exercises for a different technique (ie. sweep picking, tapping, etc.)

We have made programs before that have been successful but we want your feedback to help make the most useful tool available, for free. All thoughts and questions much appreciated!
#2
Quote by monumentalmusic

- Is there any kind of 'tool' you wish you had that would help you learn?
-[...]and then you could upgrade to get another 100 exercises for a different technique


Sooooo....think up an idea for us so we can make money off of you (by upgrading from a free product??)
Nothing that is worthwhile in life will ever come easy.
#3
What if you made a program that trained someone in multiple different techniques. And then offered an upgrade if the user wanted to continue learning more about those techniques. Seems like a better business plan...
#4
i always wanted a visual tool that could dynamically correlate guitar tab with standard notation in order to make the process of sight reading easier. there's things out there that almost do the job, but nothing that really simplifies the learning process if you know what I mean.
#5
Theory and application. No real specific tool in mind... The 100 lessons for a single technique would be great, although would "Upgrading" cost anything?

Also, 100 different lessons on a single technique (Down picking, or something) Could become very redundant.
#6
One tool I would have liked is a custom scale generator. There are many tools where you can select a scale from a menu, but none as far as I know that allow you to click on a note on the fretboard and see that note appear in all the other places you can play it (and click again to toggle it off).

This would allow an experimentally-minded guitarist to try out new scales and chord positions shapes.
#7
I don't think any program out there needs to be made that isn't already out there in some form or fashion already that if someone applied themselves, could make use of. We ave TAB programs, Midi Players, Free videos, Ear trainers, scale finders, improvisers with backing tracks, etc.

The bigger question I have for the Community at large is...

Why for free? This mindset of things being free, is a curious one. I mean programming takes a long time, a lot of practice, and schooling in many cases, which incurred debt. It's a learned and special skill, and I think anyone that puts in the work to learn it, and then the work to create it, should deserve and expect to be paid fairly for it.

But why doesn't anyone else? Do we come to a building contractor and ask him to build our houses for free? Do we go to the farmer and insist that he give us his work for free? Why not? I need an electrical outlet in the back yard. Will an electrician come install it with a GCFI switch for free?

It would be a bit embarrassing for me to even ask someone that question. Where did this mindset come from, that all good and useful things created at the hands of someone that's studied and put hours of work in, should be free, as if this is a guitarists' God-given entitlement? When did it become shameful to request due compensation for a derived benefit? The only time people create work for free, are when they are slaves, family or volunteers for a good cause.

What's our "cause"? "Cause" we don't think anyone's hard work and time and training, work that benefits us, saves us time etc., should ever be paid for?

Best,

Sean
#8
Yes Sean i tend to agree and my original thought to "soviet_ska" was why would that be such a bad thing anyway? The only way a business gets rich making money, is by having lots of customers that want their product/service. So if we made a tool that everyone wanted why is it a bad thing - we're not going to go round scratching everyones back if we don't get our back scratched also but that doesn't mean we can't all win - not every business is a corporate giant that only cares about shareholders, some people like myself still like to create good useful things for the community as a living.

One of our other tools is completely free so if you don't want to pay you don't have to. Good for you! But like you say, programming costs money, so does audio production (and we only use some of the best guitarists available) so we offer the option of upgrading to get more content for a bit of cash. If you don't want to though, that's up to you - so i don't see the problem with this thread. I'm giving people the opportunity to broadcast their ideas and we'll put the money and work into making it a reality, some people would appreciate the opportunity but there has been some good ideas so far.

I was a bit confused by Life is Brutal's comment that the program would be "great" but also could be redundant. It is a valid point though that there is a point that could be considered 'too much'. But if you want to check out an example of an original tool (to prove it hasn't ALL been done before) google '66 Licks'.
#9
Quote by monumentalmusic
Yes Sean i tend to agree and my original thought to "soviet_ska" was why would that be such a bad thing anyway?


Hey, don't get me wrong, I'm all for the entrepreneurial spirit, however, I joined this forum to talk about music theory and NOT to get advertised to. Moreover, you are misleading people with the claim of 'free' right away, but tucking away 'upgrading' (the part that comes at a price) in the dark depths of your post, but never specifically mentioning a cost. I hate that sort of advertisment. Furthermore, you clearly just joined this forum to market/research products seeing as you joined this month (probably yesterday.) I joined this forum to learn, teach and discuss music theory and I don't like people like you diluting it.

However, I'm a fair guy and hold a degree in Business/Finance, so I'll give you some input.

--The market for this sort of thing is totally saturated: there are books, video series, tutorials, tools, etc. etc. all over the place and especially on the internet. Your main challenge is going to be not only standing out as worthwhile (without making wild inaccurate claims that hurt your long-term credibility and therefore profit), but also competing with all the free stuff. This is a great challenge, but hey, the porn industry still makes money, right? You can find a million free metronomes on the internet now, but I still bought a physical one as I can take it anywhere and having a physical product makes me think about it and therefore use it more. So, moral of the story: the Internet business model is cheap and you can create lots of content quickly, but if your consumers can only access it on the internet (or through their computer as a download), it will be hard for them to appreciate the value of your product. Give them something that they can take away with them. It doesn't have to be a physical product--think outside the box! If you just give them internet/computer content, you're competing with too many alternatives and showing too little value to properly stand out.

--Develop a strong pricing strategy. It takes more prodding to get someone to spend money on the internet than it is in real life, so you have to get this part right. I would suggest not going with the "subscription" model where the customer to have access to content for a month/year at a time. That feels like renting rather than owning. Since it takes extra persuasion to get money out of people on the web, it would probably be best to offer a one-time, slightly discounted price if they buy all of the technique sections at once.
-> Also, recent behavioral economics studies have examined how people evaluate options with various pricing models. When you sell two products, one basic model at a lower price and one higher-end model at a higher price, people will generally go for the economy model. BUT, if you introduce a middle-ground option in both features and price, that will be chosen more often than either extreme, meaning you can create some "dummy" options to get people to spend more on the whole.

--I mentioned the high degree of competition already, this is especially evident for guitar--and to a lesser extent, piano--as everyone plays it. It'll be very difficult to compete for attention on this plane, maybe consider teaching a different, less popular instrument. Doing what you're doing now would be like competing against Wal-Mart and Target. It's much easier to carve out a niche market. Maybe be the web authority on trumpet or theremin. There are less consumers, but also less suppliers and more importantly, less FREE alternatives, making these players better justified to spend money on your product.

--Since you're interested in guitar techniques, of course a guitar-centric tool will be the best, but if you're teaching theory or musicianship, teach it universally, not just for guitarists. In other words, don't teach them box shapes and turn them loose on soloing, educate them on scales to give them something value. DON'T PERPETUATE BAD INFORMATION: there are so many examples on this forum and site of common misconceptions (modes come to mind), please get your information right. Don't just teach it the easy way because it's more attention-grabbing and easier to sell. If you want to help people as you claim, this is the way.
Nothing that is worthwhile in life will ever come easy.
Last edited by soviet_ska at Jun 21, 2011,
#10
Quote by monumentalmusic
But if you want to check out an example of an original tool (to prove it hasn't ALL been done before) google '66 Licks'.


@sovietska

In defense of the TS, if he's the creator of 66 Licks, your're dealing with a very good and knowledgeable person. And he doesn't have much competition as his product was unique and well executed.

Also, you have to look at a couple of things, these days getting the word out means that you practically have to become a spammer. You have to have deep bank accounts for advertising, be willing to play games with web publishing and other "tricks" just to get impressions. It's not easy at all for a good, honest well meaning person with a product and service that others could and would benefit from, without pouring out his bank. So, you only leave the well financed spammers.

I hate spam, but I'm more than willing to look at a products claims, and give an objective review. The fact is, many people need help, and what you are liable to find are those on Google who have played the "Google game" very well, and have nothing to do with tangibly teaching. I could do the same. I could outsource articles at 20 a day and spin em twice and 3 times, if that's all I cared about, but because I do care about the students themselves... I refuse to play "ad" games. With teaching, with promoting... with selling out. It doesn't matter. I'll grow 1 person at a time, each day, but I'll do it on my terms and make damn sure that I'm helping those who come to me to start with.

There's a valid point of not advertising, but a free use of one thing with an option to buy another...that's not bad. Because at least the student gets a chance to evaluate it first hand. How else are people supposed to reach others without being very rich, and playing these games? What about people with ethics and conscience and consideration, like myself? The only place we can go is the well where everyone is thirsty...at least letting people know, so that if they have a need, they know of an option.

They aren't going to find them on Google because we don't play that game, and we don't have an unlimited amount of money to do so.

I know about 66 Licks. I have already bought it and reviewed it. I thought it was very well done, actually.

I'm always in the market for value-enhanced resources to help our students. And I don't mind paying for them if I'm convinced of its value.

Best,

Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at Jun 21, 2011,
#11
Quote by Jehannum
One tool I would have liked is a custom scale generator. There are many tools where you can select a scale from a menu, but none as far as I know that allow you to click on a note on the fretboard and see that note appear in all the other places you can play it (and click again to toggle it off).

This would allow an experimentally-minded guitarist to try out new scales and chord positions shapes.


1. Wha? People shouldn't need something to do that for them.

2. http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/reverse_scales.php
^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^


"To know the truth of history is to realize its ultimate myth and its inevitable ambiguity." Everything is made up and the facts don't matter.


MUSIC THEORY LINK
#12
Quote by Sean0913

Why for free? This mindset of things being free, is a curious one. I mean programming takes a long time, a lot of practice, and schooling in many cases, which incurred debt. It's a learned and special skill, and I think anyone that puts in the work to learn it, and then the work to create it, should deserve and expect to be paid fairly for it.



Sean my chord player is for free (see my signature link) I created it because I wanted a BIAB sort of free application and BIAB costs a lot of money and I dont have the money to spare on it. so I programmed the chord player and decided to load it on the web for free so other may enjoy it. I love programming this application because it combines my profession (software engineer) with my hobby (jazz guitarist), and I created it for the fun of it, and seeing people use and enjoy my creation is really rewarding.

just my 2 cents on why people might create an application for free
#13
Quote by Sean0913
There's a valid point of not advertising, but a free use of one thing with an option to buy another...that's not bad. Because at least the student gets a chance to evaluate it first hand. How else are people supposed to reach others without being very rich, and playing these games?


Your point is valid, my argument is that the TS presented it in a misleading way. It wasn't "a trial version then you can subscribe," it was "free," then had the vague word "upgrade" buried in the middle.

Sean, you're clearly an intelligent person and we could go back and forth about business and idealism v. realism, but I won't reduce this thread to that.

But, just as a point of order( from the official forum rules):

NO ADVERTISING
Punishment: People who have signed up to UG specifically to advertise another site will receive a Permanent Ban.


TS signed up this month, has only posted in this thread about upcoming products, has his company name as his username and has specifically name-dropped another product of his in the conversation.
Nothing that is worthwhile in life will ever come easy.
#15
Quote by rockingamer2
1. Wha? People shouldn't need something to do that for them.

2. http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/reverse_scales.php


1. Wha? Why not? All people are born with perfect mental imaging of the fretboard, are they?

2. The link doesn't do that anyway. It only highlights the note where you click it, not elsewhere on the fretboard.

3. You're an idiot.
#16
Quote by Jehannum
1. Wha? Why not? All people are born with perfect mental imaging of the fretboard, are they?

2. The link doesn't do that anyway. It only highlights the note where you click it, not elsewhere on the fretboard.

3. You're an idiot.

No, but finding the same note on all over the fretboard should be a basic skill for any experimentally-minded guitarist.

The link doesn't do it exactly as you described. If you put in a scale then hover over over one of the scale options, then it maps out the scale you're hovering over all over the fretboard while also highlighting the root note of that scale.
^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^


"To know the truth of history is to realize its ultimate myth and its inevitable ambiguity." Everything is made up and the facts don't matter.


MUSIC THEORY LINK
#17
Quote by soviet_ska
Your point is valid, my argument is that the TS presented it in a misleading way. It wasn't "a trial version then you can subscribe," it was "free," then had the vague word "upgrade" buried in the middle.

Sean, you're clearly an intelligent person and we could go back and forth about business and idealism v. realism, but I won't reduce this thread to that.

But, just as a point of order( from the official forum rules):


TS signed up this month, has only posted in this thread about upcoming products, has his company name as his username and has specifically name-dropped another product of his in the conversation.


No I think we agree more than disagree, for sure. I have a business degree also, just happen to be a hard headed idealist as well, which you picked up upon.

If someone helps another, that's what matters to me, free or paid

Sean