#1
I need help knowing what information I have is accurate and what isn't and what else I can learn and how and, if my foundation is all screwed up, how to fix that.

Yasee, I've got drum lessons, from a great, formally trained drummer, so I have real, formal lessons in percussion technique, drum set, the rhythmic aspects of theory, groove, and drumming in a group (band, drumline, ect.). But I can't afford to continue these while also taking piano, bass, or guitar lessons (the other instruments I play most often, of which guitar is actually my least favorite). I'm not going to discontinue my drum lessons...Playing the drum set is my favorite thing to do in the world. But my second favorite thing (at least my 2nd favorite musically related thing...) to do is compose and analyze music. Most of the songs I write for my current band and solo project (I'm recording a li'l acoustic album) are written totally without a thought towards theory at all, all simply by ear, but I just....Well, wether its necessary or not, I simply WANT to know the big words that old people hundereds of years ago gave these sounds, know what I mean? I feel like if I use a major chord, not knowing how its formed, I'm completely disrespecting the people who brought that collection of notes into popular use and gave such a device for songwriters of all future generations. That's not a good example because I DO know how a major chord is formed, but you get the concept I'm trying to get through...

So I come here and it seems I get grouped in with these punks who think modes are the shit and have absolutely no musical foundation and don't care to go back and build one...I'm not like that, I just don't know how to fix anything screwed up with my foundation, without spending money I don't have on lessons for a second instrument. I even found out lately that a lot of the books I've been using for the entire time I've been learning are filled with bullshit...Not necessarily wrong information, but highly dumbed down information for people who just want to learn how to play like a certain guitarist they're all wet for instead of actually learning to just play in the first place. So that is a horrible slap to the face, there's no good information on the internet, and most books are barely any better.

So this can be a "test my theory" thing to make sure I actually have a foundation, or you can recommend reliable sites/books to learn from (websites have to be free, books have to be under $100, I've seen some crazy big expensive mofos on amazon...). I honestly WANT to be one of the guys here who just seems to have all the answers, and knows all that history of composing to back it all up, I don't want to be one of those douchebags who doesn't know what they're talking about but tries anyway...Can anyone help me out pwetty pwease??
#2
Check out Piston's "Harmony". It's reeeeeal detailed.
Nothing that is worthwhile in life will ever come easy.
#4
Go to the columns section of this site and search for "the crusade". Those lessons are where I started from, I highly recommend them.
#5
The conservatoire were I wanted to go to, they recommended musictheory.net. It's not that much, but it's a very good start before anything else.
Your drum lessons: is it only drums, or did you mean percussion? I follow lessons for percussion and that made me able to learn the melodic instruments as well. Since chords are important for vibraphone, you could try that.

The one thing that helped me the most was writing the chords of songs by ear (with a toy-keyboard) together with the progression and check them with the chord tabs here on UG. Start with easy songs and no songs that use power chords like Danko Jones. Try for example songs of Anna Nalick (I only have the album Wreck of the Day). That should be easy if you know your major and minor scales. Then try some more difficult chord schemes like Jamiroquai - Virtual Insanity or Cosmic Girl. When you think you got those chords try Jasper Steverlink - Life on Mars, Michael Bublé - Everything and Admiral Freebee - Rags 'n Run. Those are already real challenges, but they'll be worth it. It'll btw not only improve your knowledge about chords and progressions, but you'll learn to listen better and to hear more.

I can't help you with any history or such, since I know nothing of these things.
lalala
#6
Quote by TMVATDI
I need help knowing what information I have is accurate and what isn't and what else I can learn and how and, if my foundation is all screwed up, how to fix that.
If it's a book you're looking for, soviet_ska is right. Walter Piston's Harmony is probably one of the best. You can find it for about half the budget you mentioned. An older version of it has been online for years now: Walter Piston's Harmony

But good information is always hard to find. If you want real exact data, it'll mostly come in a boring form. If you want more practical information, it'll be incomplete and sometimes partly wrong. When your knowledge increases (and if you're really motivated, it will), you'll be able to weed out the wrong information and learn from all the sources available.

You talk about the punks who think modes are the shit. But modes were once the proverbial shit. And you can make great music with modes, or using modal theory in a tonal context.

Music theory is an abstraction of wave physics. I don't know why not more people agree with it, but it is a fact. Knowing the rules helps you use the physics to create great music. By using older rules, you limit your posibilities, but you can still create great music with it. Hundreds of generations of composers managed very well.

And a last thing: I doubt you can learn and know everything. Even if you studied every book there is, there will always be some knowledge that eludes you.
Last edited by Withakay at Jun 21, 2011,
#7
How is it that you have no money but can limit yourself to 100.00 for a book?

For what it's worth, I don't group you on the sides of "punks" at all. I see you as one of the good ones who are putting in the effort. Yours is the first name that I think of along those lines.

Best,

Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at Jun 21, 2011,
#8
If you're interested in any of these books, give me a PM.

Walter Piston - Harmony
Walter Piston - Orchestration
Walter Piston - Counterpoint
Schoenberg - Structural Functions of Harmony
Schoenberg - Fundamentals of Musical Composition
Samuel Adler - Orchestration
Frank Gambale - Modes
Bill Evans - Jazz Harmony
Bill Dobbins - Jazz Harmony
Messiaen - The Technique of My Musical Language
#9
Quote by griffRG7321
If you're interested in any of these books, give me a PM.

Walter Piston - Harmony
Walter Piston - Orchestration
Walter Piston - Counterpoint
Schoenberg - Structural Functions of Harmony
Schoenberg - Fundamentals of Musical Composition
Samuel Adler - Orchestration
Frank Gambale - Modes
Bill Evans - Jazz Harmony
Bill Dobbins - Jazz Harmony
Messiaen - The Technique of My Musical Language


Looks like a good set of books there Griff, I havent even seen all of these before.
#10
wow thanks guys, i'm gonna look for a few of these books i was told a long time ago you never know everything there is to know about theory, but i'd like to know as much as i can.

my drum lessons are mainly centered around drumline snare and drumset. there is a camp my teacher runs every year where he forms a drumline out of the best drummers in the area and teaches them things like mallets, i spent a day there (summer school interrupted...) so i got to learn a bit about the xylophone.

sean, that really boosted my musical self-esteem

i went through all the musictheory.net lessons, but its been a while, i'll probably go back and review them all before i look for these books. should i start with walter piston's harmony?

edit: and is frank gambelle's modes actually a good book? like does it explain anything about modality vs. tonality, or does it just say "these are the modes, these are the chords you can play them over, now watch me shred"?
Last edited by TMVATDI at Jun 21, 2011,
#11
Nah, more of "These are modes, this is how you make modal vamps, now watch me play each mode with C as the tonic so you can hear the difference".

And of course some shredding for good measure.
#12
Quote by griffRG7321
If you're interested in any of these books, give me a PM.

Walter Piston - Harmony
Walter Piston - Orchestration
Walter Piston - Counterpoint
Schoenberg - Structural Functions of Harmony
Schoenberg - Fundamentals of Musical Composition
Samuel Adler - Orchestration
Frank Gambale - Modes
Bill Evans - Jazz Harmony
Bill Dobbins - Jazz Harmony
Messiaen - The Technique of My Musical Language

No Rimsky-Korsakov - Principles of Orchestration?
#13
Quote by TMVATDI
I need help knowing what information I have is accurate and what isn't and what else I can learn and how and, if my foundation is all screwed up, how to fix that.

..Can anyone help me out pwetty pwease??



Take some lessons.
shred is gaudy music
#14
If you're comfortable with reading books on the internet, then you can look at this:
Bert Ligon's "Jazz Theory Resources"
http://www.music.sc.edu/ea/jazz/theory/Theory%20Book/

(The "Contents" page is at the bottom, if you wish to see what it holds)
Studying 500 pages of jazz theory from a computer screen might not be very comfortable though.

Music notation and terminology
http://www.sionsoft.com/MusicNotation.html
Doesn't go in depth of music theory, but just gives you some brief explanation on different terms you might come across.

And then theres this:
http://mysongbook.com/tutorial-index.htm

The best thing would be to get a competent teacher, who can answer your questions. With books and any written material you can only hope that you get the answer on a second reading.
#15
Quote by Jesse Clarkson
No Rimsky-Korsakov - Principles of Orchestration?


I do have a link to that, with audio examples, however all the examples in that book are of Korsakovs own orchestral work, which I'm not particularly fond of tbh.

Here it is anyway. It does have a good section on listening to each section of the orchestra and hearing what it sounds like.

http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php/45335-Lesson-1-GENERAL-REVIEW-Strings-amp-Woodwinds
#16
Quote by griffRG7321
Nah, more of "These are modes, this is how you make modal vamps, now watch me play each mode with C as the tonic so you can hear the difference".

And of course some shredding for good measure.

i think i've kinda got that part down already. there are these 2 hella expensive books i fuond on amazon i was thinking i'd try out as soon as i could afford them, "tonal counterpoint" and "modal counterpoint." i think they might actually be by walter piston
#17
Quote by -Mantra-
If you're comfortable with reading books on the internet, then you can look at this:
Bert Ligon's "Jazz Theory Resources"
http://www.music.sc.edu/ea/jazz/theory/Theory%20Book/

(The "Contents" page is at the bottom, if you wish to see what it holds)
Studying 500 pages of jazz theory from a computer screen might not be very comfortable though.

Music notation and terminology
http://www.sionsoft.com/MusicNotation.html
Doesn't go in depth of music theory, but just gives you some brief explanation on different terms you might come across.

And then theres this:
http://mysongbook.com/tutorial-index.htm

The best thing would be to get a competent teacher, who can answer your questions. With books and any written material you can only hope that you get the answer on a second reading.

i simply can't get a good teacher for a while...probably a few years. but i'll try out those links, thanks