Seb1uk
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Join date: Aug 2007
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#1
Been listening to a lot of Corelia, a bit of The Haarp Machine and more of those new proggy bands recently so I felt like trying some techy prog metal ideas.

I've come up with a verse riff that I'd just like some feedback on. And I'm also wondering, is the hi-hat ridiculously fast? Or is it possible you think? I can tap a desk that fast but I'd imagine it's a bit more difficult on drums.

c4c of course.

EDIT: Did a bit more on it, v5
EDIT: Tried to come up with an intro to link to the verse, ending up sounding very ABR-ish and metalcore, but that's not a bad thign right? I want to do more with the intro though. v6
EDIT: Done some more, v8
EDIT: Finished, but not it's not final. I'm not so sure about the transition into the clean break, and from the Epic to Verse 3. I'd also like to specifically know if they thought the Epic section was a satisfying release to the build-up because I think that's the most important part right? v12
EDIT: Had another quick listen and I felt I needed to extend the Epic section. Unnecessarily long now or better? v13
EDIT: Changed the transition into the clean break slightly, and panned the cross solo section for now to make both parts more easily audible v14

EDIT: did a rough demo of this https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?p=28847188#post28847188
Attachments:
rock 227 v5.gp5
rock 227 v6.gp5
rock 227 v8.gp5
rock 227 v14.gp5
Last edited by Seb1uk at Jan 2, 2012,
Life Is Brutal
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#3
Intro was a cool theme, and I liked the use of chromatics in it. It also builds action well. I could do without breakdowns, Honestly I wish they would stop completely, but this seems more of a rhythm based solo backing. I can't stand it when it's an entire section of galloping though.

Verse is good, although going from a that halfstep chord way up at the 11th and 14th fret back to the lower range could be difficult. I liked the break at 30, and the pre-chorus. The chorus is great, although I'm dissapointed it didn't transition into anything else. Because it ended.

Good material here, so keep working on it.
JCAshworth247
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#4
v8
I never heard off Corelia or The Haarp Machine, but if they sound anything like this then they're worth a listen.
Anyway I think the breakdown is great how it is and the stop and go effect the rhythm has is a good touch. Also I think the song is very well structured and never went "off-topic" so you kept the general tone throughout.
On bar 9 I like the transition to a heavier theme but you should repeat the rhythm on bar 11 too (as in the rhythm gtr, bass and drums but keep the lead gtr how it is).
The verse was my favorite part,
The prechorus was also impressive, especially how you kept the beat while the time sig was 15/16, it didnt sound forced or anything.

As for the rest of the song I think you should repeat the verse then prechorus then chorus, then repeat the chorus, have an interlud of some sort and see how it goes from there, maybe add a solo or a clean section, or maybe a demonic breakdown, its totally up to you.

And to answer your question, The hi-hats aren't too fast but it would take a skilled drummer to do so.

EDIT: C4C?

CLICK HERE
Last edited by JCAshworth247 at Jun 22, 2011,
Seb1uk
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#5
Cheers for the feedback guys. I've considered doing an acoustic guitar intro to lead into what I've got right now

LifeisBrutal: I'm a bit of a sucker for good breakdowns to be honest, although I never really use them in my music, but don't think of me as one of those Attack! Attack! kids hah. Oh and going from the low end of the guitar up to the 11th and 14th fret is fine, I always play what I write to make sure I can play it. Care to have a listen to v8 and see if you're happy with what the chorus leads to?

JCAshworth: Definitely have a listen to Corelia, http://www.corelliaband.com/ They're a new band who are soon to release their EP, have a listen to Glass Faces which I think is the best song they've got revealed right now. And yeah I'm thinking of going to a clean break after the break at the end of v8. I'm gonna have to crit yours tomorrow though sorry, it'll take a bit of time to crit yours since it's quite long and I really need to study for my exam tomorrow.
JCAshworth247
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#6
Quote by Seb1uk
Cheers for the feedback guys. I've considered doing an acoustic guitar intro to lead into what I've got right now

LifeisBrutal: I'm a bit of a sucker for good breakdowns to be honest, although I never really use them in my music, but don't think of me as one of those Attack! Attack! kids hah. Oh and going from the low end of the guitar up to the 11th and 14th fret is fine, I always play what I write to make sure I can play it. Care to have a listen to v8 and see if you're happy with what the chorus leads to?

JCAshworth: Definitely have a listen to Corelia, http://www.corelliaband.com/ They're a new band who are soon to release their EP, have a listen to Glass Faces which I think is the best song they've got revealed right now. And yeah I'm thinking of going to a clean break after the break at the end of v8. I'm gonna have to crit yours tomorrow though sorry, it'll take a bit of time to crit yours since it's quite long and I really need to study for my exam tomorrow.


yea no problem,

That band sounds great, I was a little disappointed at the beginning of the song, it just sounded like a congested assortment of licks but after like a minute it got really good. btw what happened to v7?
Seb1uk
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#7
Yeah that whole kinda atonal section kinda grows on you after a while. Although it just flows a lot more to me just because I've learnt it and just knows how it goes.

v7 had an another idea for a section to come after the chorus, it was quite metalcorey and sounded a bit too similar to something I had written before so I changed it.
HaydenHohns
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#8
Intro: I'm not a fan of the minor 2nd harmonies in the 2nd bar here. I can see what you're going for, maybe change it to a major 2nd but it just doesn't work for me. Apart from that the entire Intro is fine.

Breakdown: I hate breakdowns but this one is obviously much more musical than the repetitive guff that plagues Metal these days. Not bad in all honesty. Actually reminded me of one of the riffs in 'Born' by Nevermore.

Verse: Good stuff here once again. This also reminds me of Nevermore with the exception of the minor 2nd harmony notes. The melodic section in bars 30-31 was a nice change of mood and hinted at what is to come. However if you want the song to be even better, I suggest adding a counter riff in the last few bars of this section. Look up 'Elegy of Icaros' by Emperor and you'll see how good Ihsahn is at composing.

Pre-Chorus: Good. I liked the little 15/16 bar you used to throw the listener off a bit. It gives a sense of uncertainty, and I like that.

Chorus: I'm halfway between liking this and hating it. I can see why someone who listened to this type of music would like it but it sounds so sappy to me. On the plus side, the lead part reminds me of Nevermore (Born also) again. Maybe try something with more 4th/11th intervals, they'll give the progression the grit it needs.

Verse: Tonally its the same as the Chorus, too sappy. But I loved the interplay between the rhythm and lead guitar here. Really good.

Break: It flowed very nicely from the previous section and the melodies were also good.

I recommend a technical but melodic guitar solo using the same chord progression in the Chorus, followed by another guitar solo using the rhythmic figure of the Breakdown. Then go into the Pre-Chorus, Chorus and you're done. Maybe modulate between the Pre-Chorus and Chorus to make the effect stronger.

Overall, I'm quite impressed. Everything was composed in a very musical manner and it all flowed perfectly. My complaints are only a matter of preference, so keep it up.

C4C?

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1454198
Seb1uk
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#9
HaydenHohns: I quite like the minor 2nd harmony hah, but fair enough. Just guessing, if I was to make the minor 2nd a major 2nd, would that mean just putting the 11 up to 12? I'll consider working a counter riff into the last few bars of the verse, I can kinda imagine it already. I'm not a big fan of Emperor, well the vocals that is, but I definitely like the music itself. I quite enjoyed 'Elegy of Icaros'.

And the chorus was one of my favourite parts! But yeah I'll try some of those intervals. I'm not sure if I wanna stick in a guitar solo to be honest, I haven't really thought about what I wanna do next but I definitely want to do the pre-chorus and chorus again. And it's interesting you say this was composed in a very musical manner because I really lack any music theory, but it's nice to know it looks musically correct.
HaydenHohns
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#10
In order to make it a major 2nd harmony you need to increase the distance to two semitones (Or two fret positions). So your G# to G will become A to G. Because the minor 2nd harmonies in the verse were good but not the intro (IMO). I can understand someone not liking the vocals (It took me a while to get used to them), but compositionally he is really advanced, no arguments there. You can probably download the GP5 file from here and deconstruct how he composes. I know I always do that when I want to expand my musical horizons.

The Chorus isn't bad, it's just too 'core' in sound for me. Maybe the fact that I continued to compare this song to Born by Nevermore might be why I wanted you to use 4th/11th related intervals (Born has them in the Chorus).

I think a really well composed guitar solo would make this song. Listen to Tornado of Souls by Megadeth. That song was what made me serious about guitar. It's incredibly melodic and complex from a tonal aspect as well as having the 'wow' factor that you get from well composed shred music.

Yeah well apart from an abrupt key change from the Intro to Breakdown to Verse it was incredibly musical. Maybe well thought out was the word I was looking for.
Macabre_Turtle
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#11
Um. Wow, Honestly I'd like to give a detailed crit like you did for me, but I don't have anything bad to say about anything at all here. The only suggestion I have is I think the intro sounds better if you don't make the notes ring. That might just be guitar pro though. Maybe give the bass a little more attention. The only time I noticed it really got to do it's own thing was the very last riff. I have to keep that in mind in my own compositions too I realize.
Mean Mr Mustard
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#12
Intro was pretty heavy, I wasn't really expecting that from the rest of the stuff I've heard from you. You made the chromatic shit work here, good job with that. Bars 30-31 in the verse stood out, that was pretty awesome right there. Besides that, I didn't find the breakdown or the verse to be that special, that's just my opinion there, I'm sure vocals would spice everything up. The Pre-Chorus honestly was like nothing I've heard before, that was unique and great, very good job there. The Chorus was great, but it wasn't all that unique at all, it seems sort of typical for your writing, but hey it works. Nice job on that verse going into the break, that was great too.

For the rest of the song, I could see an acoustic intro to the song, that could work. I don't think that the intro is the type of riff I would want to bring back though. Maybe try to make the second half a very cohesive type of buildup? You know, like some slow clean break and build it up to an epic outro? What you have is pretty cool stuff, and a hardcore prog metal fan should love it. Maybe have that first verse riff come in over a slow breakdown, I'd enjoy the shit out of that.

Overall, it's a very well written song. Maybe not the best I've heard, but to be honest, there's nothing I can tell you to change about it. It's written perfectly for what it is, so great job with the writing. I would definitely listen to this if it were recorded.
Seb1uk
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#13
Macabre_Turtle: I actually paid a fair bit of attention to the bass actually! It's a lot more different to the rhythm guitar tracks compared to most of my stuff. I guess it just doesn't stand out. The intro doesn't quite work without ringing notes in my opinion. If anything maybe a clean guitar sound works better.

Mean Mr Mustard: Yeah I just liked the breakdown as a moment for the music to kick in and start moving your head hah. And yeah I realise the chorus is kinda typical of my writing, but I hope that's not meaning it's going stale, I do try to keep it as different as possible while still keeping in my own style. And actually I kinda imagined what you said about building up to an epic section with a slow clean break, which I tried doing now. Can you tell me what you think of it now?

Cheers guys, I just finished the song, if some people wanna re-listen and tell me what they think. I'm not so sure about the transition into the clean break, I dunno, it feels, musicall immature I guess? And I dunno about the transition from the Epic to Verse 3. I'd also like to specifically know if they thought the Epic section was a satisfying release to the build-up because I think that's the most important part right?

EDIT: Just added v13, which is an extension on the Epic section.
EDIT: Changed the transition into the Clean Break slightly, v14
Last edited by Seb1uk at Jun 27, 2011,
Mean Mr Mustard
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#14
Everything you added was great, I really enjoyed that Epic section, nice job Nice release, and yes, it goes back into the Verse pretty nicely actually.
Macabre_Turtle
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#15
The changes are great, man. Great improvements.
Don't take my bass comments to seriously. The bass is certainly well written.
amonamarthmetal
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#16
i gotta say i didnt like the first 16 measures. bar 17 was were it got good though. the lead was sick, it compimented the rhythm breakdown nicely. im not fond of the 15/16 time signature, it feels like its only there just to make it proggy. bar 78 was nice, the jazz guitar made the song sound much nicer. the cross solo's were nice but they seem to distract each other a bit. maybe change one an octave lower so the dont clash as much? the chorushad a solid melody. and the outro so was quite intense, it made it feel like a climax but then it abruptly ends.
Seb1uk
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#17
Cheers. And amonamarth yeah I can see what you mean by the 15/16, but it kinda just flows in my head really. Initially the whole pre-chorus was 15/16 when I wrote the riff, but when I added the drums it didn't sound quite right. Maybe it's a bit unnecessary hmm...and for the outro, yeah I wanted a fade out actually but then I realised how most of my songs have fade outs so I just wanted it to be a bit different. Oh and I'll consider the thing about making one of the guitars an octave lower for the 'cross solo' coz I kinda thought a similar thing actually. But I guess if you don't take it literally as a solo and just a section of nice sounding cross melodies then it would be alright.
Last edited by Seb1uk at Jun 28, 2011,
frankibo
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#18
Don't get rid of the 15/16 bar, it flows nicely but is unexpected, it keeps you on your toes.
On the whole it's an excellent song, really epic and well written, pretty flawless.
I would have to say I personally think the prechorus hi hat is too fast, you'd struggle to find someone to play that. I don't think it'd hurt to slow it down.
I also agree that one of the solos in the cross should be an octave lower, they can't really be separated audibly which is annoying.
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Seb1uk
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#19
Thanks man. Yeah the second pre-chorus has a slightly different drum beat and has 16th note hi-hat hits instead for the most part and it doesn't detract from the overall sound at all I think, so I'll probably do the same with the first pre-chorus. I did a quick fix for the cross solo for now by heavily panning both tracks which helps a bit. But I'll be sure to try making one guitar an octave lower soon, I just can't be arsed right now.
BigBigWater
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#20
Intro: I can't really tell if I like this or not, haha. I love the 'groove' the notes have, but it feels kinda cliche/boring or something...

Breakdown: SO METALCORE. But not bad, it's catchy.

Not to be lazy but, literally the entire rest of it I loved. There is nothing bad for me to say about anything else, and no part is specifically best, because they're all fantastic.

On the 15/16 measure: Tbh, didn't even notice it ear-wise, haha. I think that makes it smooth enough.

And the solos don't need to be transposed IMO if you just have it panned a bit.


But yeah, this is really awesome. Got a really 'epic' feel throughout, haha, love it. Good work, now record it. ;3
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#22
my initial opinion would be that was really really really good! the in particular i like your time signature changes, which flow so well and instinctively to me (or maybe i'm wierd like that). the change to 7/4 in the 3rd verse is the best, very refreshing! the chorus and solos are also beautiful.

but to be picky for the sake of maybe being constructive, there are still some things i think you could improve.

primarily i think that the intro and breakdown section are much weaker than the rest of the song. as you said it was a generic sounding thing, so do something that isn't generic! show that the rest of the song is going to be something more special than that.

i think the tapping on the 2nd guitar in "delay interlude" could be improved, simply by having a more complex pattern outlining the chords or something, rather than tap-pulloff tap-pulloff tap-pulloff etc! also i think the transition into the clean break could be improved somehow, i think the bass needs to more in the two bars before, as it suddenly stops after playing a very fast and complex riff.

but this is mostly nitpicking, i loved it, thanks for sharing
Seb1uk
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#23
Thanks man! Yeah I don't really like putting in time signature changes for the sake of it, I write the line first and then figure out what time signature it's in. But yeah I know what you mean about the intro, I wrote the verse riff first and then kinda rushed to make an intro leading to it. I also agree with you on the transition to the clean break, again, I came up with the interlude bit first and found it hard to link the sections properly. But cheers for the constructive criticism.
blake1221
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#24
I have nothing to add or critique, I was just pretty blown away and impressed. Great musicianship throughout the entire piece.
whalepudding
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#26
crit crit crit crit

I have a handful of criticisms, all of them really really minor ones that you could easily get away with not fixing but I'll mention them anyway because it would be a useless crit otherwise

I thought verse 2 could be executed better. It kind of sounded like two seperate lead parts that didn't add up to anything more special than the individual lines. They didn't quite clash, but they didn't compliment each other either, they just coexisted. It was great rhythmically, but could be better harmonically I thought. I'd say try and find the notes in countermelodies that compliment the other line, and bring out something new in them.

I thought Delay Interlude got a bit cluttered when Dist 1 began playing triplets. It was really beautiful before that, I'd suggest playing something simpler with straight 8th notes and letting the delay form lovely harmonies, it's not in need of that much technicality I don't think.

I thought it'd be better if the lead in bars 19 and 20 complimented the rhythm of the chugging, like it did in the earlier bars. I didn't like it as much when it went off on its own. Having it go up higher is a good idea, but it might be cool to play a similar rhythm with the higher notes.

'sbout it I think. Very minor things - none of which anyone else seems to have had a problem with, so maybe not hugely useful. Otherwise I loved it - it had a great post-hardcore-like energy and momentum, and sense of melody. My favourite parts were the Prechorus, the Delay Interlude and Epic.
Seb1uk
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#27
Thanks man, nah it was a really useful crit. You raise some good points I never really thought about, I'd definitely like to re-write verse 2, the lead line that is, because I quite like the more rhythm-based guitar line ha. And yeah I agree about the triplets in the delay bit. Cheers for that!
Life Is Brutal
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#28
I did a crit a long ass time ago, and I'm hoping you could repay it now if you haven't.

I also listened to this song again, and I am in approval of all changes you had made to it. There's really nothing left to scratch at, and it seems to be a completely solid track.

Anyway, whether you crit or not, links here. At the very least your thread is now my advertising space.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1513146

Sorryedit: I just realized that we might already be "Even" with crits. Anyway, if you want another crit, link me and that'll make us certainly even.
Last edited by Life Is Brutal at Jan 19, 2012,
Seb1uk
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#29
Haha, just wanted to let you know I'm not ignoring you I'm just real busy these days, I'll get to critting yours at some point soon but I've just gotta return some crits that people have done for me recently.