#1
Hey guys,

basically my problem is whenever I try to make a Trash Metal like solo , it always sounds way too bluesy.

As in it just sounds like blues with a bit more distortion, I normally use a pentatonic or a harmonic minor but it still sounds too blues

Any techniques or new scales I should try to incorporate?
It's not how big your pencil is; it's how you write your name.
#2
Well dime bag (RIP) Used the minor pent alot and they were pretty thrashy. but i understand your problem perfectly try this

[Aeolian Mode] [Key of E]
E|------------------------------------------------------------------11--12--|
B|--------------------------------------------------10--12--13-------------|
G|------------------------------8--9--11--12-------------------------------|
D|----------------7--9--10--------------------------------------------------|
A|---7--9--10---------------------------------------------------------------|
E|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|

Or the minor sale

P.S You can change the key of thet scale BTW
#3
Yeah try the aeolian mode/minor scale or the phrygian mode.
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#4
TS, modes will not help you, unlike what the previous posters might make you think.

I think you know the minor scale (seeing as you tried the harmonic minor scale before). That scale can bring you far enough, if you *use it properly*.
If you want to use it properly, listen and analyze to the artists that you like, and try to apply that to your leads.
#5
Quote by InVainmetal
Well dime bag (RIP) Used the minor pent alot and they were pretty thrashy. but i understand your problem perfectly try this

[Aeolian Mode] [Key of E]
E|------------------------------------------------------------------11--12--|
B|--------------------------------------------------10--12--13-------------|
G|------------------------------8--9--11--12-------------------------------|
D|----------------7--9--10--------------------------------------------------|
A|---7--9--10---------------------------------------------------------------|
E|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|

Or the minor sale

P.S You can change the key of thet scale BTW


that's the harmonic minor, not aeolian, and it's better to just call it the minor scale (te aeolian not this one), your just confusing it otherwise/trying to give it a more convoluted name, which doesn't help anyone. yeah not using the blues or pentatonic, try using the natural minor and make sure to focus on the 6th and 2nd degrees for instance, or harmonic minor.

speaking of dimebag, some of his stuff uses say a figure from one of the scales, say #7,8,3, and shift it do different strings one after another. a lot of the time this won't have much theoretical basis, but it can sound quite cool.
#6
A lot of thrash legends used (and still do) use simple pentatonics. It's not what scale you use, it's HOW you use it. Learn a solo or two by your favourite band and analyse them, that's how you'll learn.
#7
Your phrasing will have a large impact on what your leads sound like. I suggest working on that aspect before trying to memorize more scale patterns. Listen to songs you like and pay attention to the way the leads are played that sound distinctively "metal" to you as opposed to bluesy, and try to emulate those characteristics in your playing.
:E
#8
Quote by Formina_Sage
Your phrasing will have a large impact on what your leads sound like. I suggest working on that aspect before trying to memorize more scale patterns. Listen to songs you like and pay attention to the way the leads are played that sound distinctively "metal" to you as opposed to bluesy, and try to emulate those characteristics in your playing.


This is it, right here. Blues soloing often uses a "call and response" system of phrasing. What are your favorite metal players doing?
Nothing that is worthwhile in life will ever come easy.
#9
you should really take time learning on how to make a pentatonic sound like thrash metal. Listen to some songs of this genre and take the ideas. Anyway, there's one thing that actually sound very "thrashy": Arpegios
#10
Quote by Keth
TS, modes will not help you, unlike what the previous posters might make you think.


I would think shredding some phrygian licks would be quite appropriate for thrash...
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#11
Quote by Hydra150
I would think shredding some phrygian licks would be quite appropriate for thrash...

If the song was in phrygian it would be. The b2 is 99% of the time just an accidental to give that darker sort of sound, but is very far away from actually being phrygian.
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#12
Fair enough I dont know a lot of thrash, but one thrash song I have learned is Creeping Death by Metallica and I would say that the chorus in that song is phrygian, although the verse isnt.

I get the whole accidental / passing tone thing, and I would imagine that there are very few metal songs in locrian for example, despite the occasional use of the b5, but Im sure Ive heard more than a few thrash riffs which sound phrygian to me and use the b2 prominently. At what point do we differentiate phrygian or just minor that uses a b2 most often?

And TS is asking how to sound more 'thrash' and less 'blues' - if you say that the phrygian scale (or minor with a b2, if you prefer) is used to give a darker sound then I stand by my statement - it could help give the desired effect. Besides, its not just about the scale, its how you use it, so I agree with the dudes recommending that you pay more attention to phrasing - learn you're favourite solos, analyse what's actually going on (note choice, phrasing, dynamics and articulation etc) and try to apply that to your own improvisation.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Jun 24, 2011,
#13
Quote by Hydra150
Fair enough I dont know a lot of thrash, but one thrash song I have learned is Creeping Death by Metallica and I would say that the chorus in that song is phrygian, although the verse isnt.


the entire song is in E minor. just because there's an F natural, that doesn't mean it's automatically phrygian -- that's not how modes work in modern context.
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#14
mmkay, but I would still use the F natural while soloing in a thrash song over a riff with an F natural in it. And I would call it using the phrygian scale.

edit - im not saying that the song is in the phrygian mode or that it is modal, i am suggesting that TS tries some phrygian licks to try sound more 'thrash' - he did ask for scale suggestions and a people have pointed out in this thread that the b2 is just
used to sound 'darker', which I imagine is the effect TS is looking for.
This thread isnt a discussion of modes, its for helping TS sound like a crazy metalhead.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Jun 24, 2011,
#15
Quote by AeolianWolf
the entire song is in E minor. just because there's an F natural, that doesn't mean it's automatically phrygian -- that's not how modes work in modern context.


Right. The chorus is likely using the F -> E motion to gain a certain feel to it--likely 'darker'--while the verse has a contrasting/complimenting feel that uses the F#'s relation to the rest of the scale instead.

I read a good article on this site that called this sort of thing "suggestive play," i.e. you're suggesting the Phrygian feel while still playing in a completely tonal context. It had some good information in it that would likely clear up some misunderstanding about the use of modal scales/ideas in tonal music. If I remember what it is called, I'll link to it.
Nothing that is worthwhile in life will ever come easy.
#16
Quote by Hydra150
mmkay, but I would still use the F natural while soloing in a thrash song over a riff with an F natural in it. And I would call it using the phrygian scale.


so would i. but i'd call it "debbie". i'm all for calling it things it's not.

if TS wants to sound like a total metalhead, he'd better start using his ear and his brain. he's not going to get the sound he wants just by playing patterns he's mislabeled, and licks aren't going to be the answer.

TS -

1) listen to a song.
2) analyze the devices used therein (if you want to get the most out of this step, it will involve learning theory, otherwise it's just mimicry until your ears develop to a certain point).
3) apply what you've learned.

in that application, you'll have the sounds you want.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#17
"Debbie scale" has a certain ring to it, but Id say "phrygian scale" is perhaps more appropriate, as phrygian is the name of a mode of the major scale and modes are basically scales. And playing a certain scale would give a certain sound: calling that sound after the name of your high school sweetheart Deborah would make less sense than calling it what most other guitar players would call it - after all naming things is all about communicating with other people, and music is all about the sounds and not the names.

Although this discussion is irrelevant. Like I and others have said, TS you gotta really listen to and analyse your favourite players and apply the theory and techniques you notice. Use your ears, watch videos and learn from tabs - learn licks and solos and try get comfortable with the style till you are able to improvise the stuff yourself.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do