#1
I've often thought that because we as human beings have tried to understand the concepts of such things as black holes, gravity, multiverse's and atoms without ever getting a chance to see them as they are (because it would physically be impossible)... How can we be sure that the way we're attempting to figure these things out isn't completely misleading, and sent us careering in the wrong direction? History has shown time and time again that the next discovery always nullify's a few then recent discovery's, that may have not even believed to be theory's at the time, but rather actual fact. People were so sure the earth was flat due to there limitations. In what way is our way of discovering new things better? Most of the time, aren't we going purely off perception alone?

So yeah, any thoughts on this matter, pit dwellers?
#4
I've seen atoms. You can photograph individual atoms if you have an x-ray laser with a short enough pulse.
#5
the human brain is perfectly capable of understanding concepts without seeing them, i've never seen communism for example and i understand that perfectly well. Also, people as old as ancient greeks knew the world wasen't flat.

What are you actually saying, you seem to suggest we cannot understand phenomena such as black holes without seeing them, yet the thread title suggests the opposite. How can we 'believe our eyes' if we can't see the thing we're meant to be beleiving, unless your're suggesting we shouldn't beleive our eyes because we can't see things, such as black holes, which we are fairly certain exist
Last edited by teh_goon at Jun 23, 2011,
#6
Quote by smb
I've seen atoms. You can photograph individual atoms if you have an x-ray laser with a short enough pulse.


I'm still sceptical. How do we know what we're looking at is actually an atom, considering the atom is a lot smaller than the shortest wavelength of visible light?
#7
we know it's an atom because they've used microscopes or whatever to magnify the image to the point where we can see it. what elese could a highly magnified image of an atom be?
#8
Because you're not taking the picture with visible light. Obviously you can't resolve the width of an atom in the visible spectrum. That's why we use lasers for such a thing.

We can see black holes because we can detect the radiation emitted from them and see the scattering of light when a star collapses into one.

We may not be able to directly observe gravity (yet) but we can see its effects in the same way we can see magnetism at work. You believe in magnets, right?
#9
Quote by Alkaline 64
I've often thought that because we as human beings have tried to understand the concepts of such things as black holes, gravity, multiverse's and atoms without ever getting a chance to see them as they are (because it would physically be impossible)... How can we be sure that the way we're attempting to figure these things out isn't completely misleading, and sent us careering in the wrong direction? History has shown time and time again that the next discovery always nullify's a few then recent discovery's, that may have not even believed to be theory's at the time, but rather actual fact. People were so sure the earth was flat due to there limitations. In what way is our way of discovering new things better? Most of the time, aren't we going purely off perception alone?

So yeah, any thoughts on this matter, pit dwellers?


Regarding that, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDXrpNk3fy4
Isn't it a pity?
Now, isn't it a shame?
How we break each other's hearts,
And cause each other pain...


"Music is everybody's possession. It's only publishers who think that people own it." - John Lennon
#10
Quote by smb
You believe in magnets, right?



Quote by Pleasure2kill
The truth is, Muslims never apologized for their faith having something to do with the attacks on 9/11.
Last edited by damian_91 at Jun 23, 2011,
#12
Quote by Pleasure2kill
The truth is, Muslims never apologized for their faith having something to do with the attacks on 9/11.
#13
i would have bet my life someone was going to post the ****ing magnets thing...
#15
Quote by smb
Because you're not taking the picture with visible light. Obviously you can't resolve the width of an atom in the visible spectrum. That's why we use lasers for such a thing.

We can see black holes because we can detect the radiation emitted from them and see the scattering of light when a star collapses into one.

We may not be able to directly observe gravity (yet) but we can see its effects in the same way we can see magnetism at work. You believe in magnets, right?


I'll remind you of this when *insert genius professor's name here* comes along and disproves everything you just said.

The idea I was suggesting was intended to be a bit more philosophical than that. Like, that laser okay. How do we know this laser exists? What I was trying to say was, why should we take what our perception tells us to be true?
#16
Quote by damian_91

dude...seriously....as much as i hate icp
Gonna make the mountains be my home....

"A box of rain will ease the pain and love will see you through"-Robert Hunter
#17
Quote by ripdime04
dude...seriously....as much as i hate icp

Dude why are you like so attached to technology and shit, why dude why
Quote by Pleasure2kill
The truth is, Muslims never apologized for their faith having something to do with the attacks on 9/11.
#18
Quote by Alkaline 64
I'll remind you of this when *insert genius professor's name here* comes along and disproves everything you just said.
I've spent five years doing physics at uni, if any of those things are disproved I'll have bigger problems than this thread
Quote by Alkaline 64
The idea I was suggesting was intended to be a bit more philosophical than that. Like, that laser okay. How do we know this laser exists? What I was trying to say was, why should we take what our perception tells us to be true?
We can rely on our perception because we can make predictions based on it and they come true. Though there are obviously limitations - in the case of sight we can have dreams or hallucinations and also there are holograms and mirages but these are all explainable.

Generally in science now computers do all the actual experiments and measurements so that gives a degree of accuracy and reliability not previously achievable.
#20
If you can't rely on your senses then what are you going to rely on? I know it's possible to decieve them easily but when you begin to question the reality of what you're seeing you start to lose you're mind a bit and fall into paranoia.
Gotta keep my eyes from the circling skies...
tounge tied and twisted just an earth bound misfit...

>CRYPTIC METAPHOR<


Quote by ilikepirates
ilikeyou.

not hated
#21
Im not sure what you're saying. are you implying that trusting our own biased and faulty senses are better than using the scientific method? Or are you saying that some theories may be surpassed by newer ones? Cause that's kinda obvious. A scientifically accepted theory is defined as the current best explanation of the observations.
#22
Quote by Arnulf.
are you implying that trusting our own biased and faulty senses are better than using the scientific method?


Not at all. Quite the opposite actually, I'm saying that how can we be sure these "scientific methods" are leading us in the right direction solely by the impressions we get from our senses.
#23
Quote by damian_91
Dude why are you like so attached to technology and shit, why dude why

????
Gonna make the mountains be my home....

"A box of rain will ease the pain and love will see you through"-Robert Hunter
#24
Quote by Alkaline 64
Not at all. Quite the opposite actually, I'm saying that how can we be sure these "scientific methods" are leading us in the right direction solely by the impressions we get from our senses.


Oh, ok. Well the knowledge of things like photons and atoms and lasers and whatnot are not based on wether or not we can see them There are different ways of gathering information. In science you try to eliminate all the variables to get a trusted method of gathering information. Basing a theory or hypothesis on eyewitness never happens.

So science has long ago recognised the fact that our senses are faulty and that we have to get unbiased and more accurate results than we can with our eyes (ears, noses etc) alone.
#26
Quote by chaos13
Drop acid.

Understand the multiverse.

precisley
Gonna make the mountains be my home....

"A box of rain will ease the pain and love will see you through"-Robert Hunter
#28
Quote by Twist of fate
How do we know the Earth isn't flat?

How do we know the Earth revolves around the sun?

How do we know Pluto is out there?

How do we know why Michael Cera is famous?

How do we know how magnets work?


We don't know any of these things is what I'm saying...

Especially that thing about Michael Cera.