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#1
I know that it "pushes" the amps harder, but I don't see the point really if you already have an amp with a lot of gain. People say don't use a distortion pedal on tube amps....well overdrive aren't any different. It just adds diodes on front of the tube amp. Why does everyone in hard rock/metal use them when their amps already have enough gain?
#2
Overdrive and distortion are different from what I know, they both clip differently. Overdrives tend to just be useful to act as say a volume boost in a solo, or they tend to tighten an amp up as well as push you out in the mix more. That's what I've always found anyway.
#4
Quote by telemetal
Overdrive and distortion are different from what I know, they both clip differently. Overdrives tend to just be useful to act as say a volume boost in a solo, or they tend to tighten an amp up as well as push you out in the mix more. That's what I've always found anyway.



But thats what an EQ medal is for
#5
Tube amps are much warmer than solid state amps usually(argue if you'd like) and metal players usually use them to tighten the sound and make it a little more harsh. I've always done it(when I'm not choosing to play a solid state) and it's always helped make it feel a little more br00tal. As well just turning it on for a lead boost can help cut through when playing like, and make the notes screech a little more for bends.
#6
Different strokes for different folks, EQ's can do that, but they don't add more dirt. The way I tend to use OD, is as a boost/3rd channel for my amp. I run a clean tone, then OD on, bluesy crunch, I run a hard rock distortion, then OD on to boost the lead channel, it gets thicker and darker, hence metal tone.
#7
It's not always for more gain, more often it's to tighten the sound by removing a bit of bass and adding mids.
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#8
Quote by hoosierxhoosier
I know that it "pushes" the amps harder, but I don't see the point really if you already have an amp with a lot of gain. People say don't use a distortion pedal on tube amps....well overdrive aren't any different. It just adds diodes on front of the tube amp. Why does everyone in hard rock/metal use them when their amps already have enough gain?


umm.. so lets see everyone else sees the point but you don't. how do you know "everyones" amp has enough gain? who are these "people" that say don't use a distortion pedal with a tube amp? toa many generalizations with nothing to back them up. as already mentioned overdrives give you that little bit extra which is often used for leads. most overdrives have a tone control which can help tighten up a rhythm sound or help your lead sound cut through better. you can indeed use a distortion pedal thru a tube amp, for best results run it thru the claen channel so your sound doesn't turn to much.
#9
Why did i know it was a '11er
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#11
Actually, I've been playing for 6 years now, I've been using a tube amp for 4 years, and I've heard people suggest different ways to use a OD pedal with a tube amp. I know this is like asking "what's the best amp?" and at the risk of sounding like a complete n00b, what is considered the correct use of a OD pedal with a tube amp?

I've always used it to switch from a clean to dirty channel on my Vox AC15 since it doesn't do channel switching otherwise, and I also use OD pedals to get gain-y at low volumes or to get different "flavors" of dirt. I've also tried just running my amp to overdrive and cleaning it up with the guitar's volume control, but it's not quite as clean and precise of a switch as I need sometimes... your opinion? Is there some other approach that could improve my sound?
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#12
Quote by hoosierxhoosier
I know that it "pushes" the amps harder, but I don't see the point really if you already have an amp with a lot of gain. People say don't use a distortion pedal on tube amps....well overdrive aren't any different. It just adds diodes on front of the tube amp. Why does everyone in hard rock/metal use them when their amps already have enough gain?

Tubescreamers are the standard. For good reason.
They cut the bass and boost the mids, which tightens the sound.
#13
Generally people use an overdrive pedal, like Raijouta said, to tighten up the sound by focusing it more in the midrange. This works because the vast majority of overdrive pedals are based on the Ibanez Tubescreamer, and feature it's heavy mid boost. Also, sometimes it improves the tone by driving the first gain stage (which no guitar is hot enough to distort). And I, personally, like distortion pedals on clean tube amps (well, usually fuzz, but sometimes distortion!).

EDIT: Darkwolf covered it.
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#14
I use an OD in front of my little mid-gain Bugera to add more saturation and to brighten it up, the thing is way too dark
#15
There's a difference between using one as a boost and using one as an overdrive. To use it as a boost the volume is turned up all the way and the gain is turned down all the way. Generally that's how it's done as a boost.
#18
By everyone do you mean 1 old guy, that thinks he knows the secret to everything guitar.

EDIT: Because I know a guy like that.
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#19
Because they sound freak'n awesome and sometimes better than the preamp tube distortion. And you can get far more different tones out of multiple pedals.
#20
Quote by Thrash_Head1990
Why did i know it was a '11er

When the hell did I say that?

OT: I use my Bad Monkey OD as a boost, it tightens an amp up.
#21
Quote by hoosierxhoosier
But thats what an EQ medal is for




a few diodes never hurt an amp.
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#22
I use it as a tonal colourization, changes the sound you'd get out of the amp.
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#23
Tighten it up, loosen it up, change the overall voicing, boosting, moar gainz, etc etc.

ODs can do surprising amount of tone magic. Even more surprising when you consider that 90% of them are just slightly modified Tubescreamer clones.
#24
Cuz you needz 3 Dumble pedalz running into your Dumble amp or the tone isn't tubey enough.
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#25
so can i playz the stooner metal wis my FENDERZ! thas why!
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#27
because it makes the amp sound like it's made of pure distilled win?


seriously, though, just try it. It generally sounds great. it's also not exactly the same as fiddling with your eq, or upping the gain on the amp, etc. etc. I think the od can boost the first triode or two in the amp's circuit, whereas if you're running straight into the amp they're not gonna be distorted.

and the diodes thing is only if you dial in a fair bit of gain on the pedal. don't get me wrong- even with gain/drive at 0 most od pedals add some of their own dirt which is probabyl from teh di0des. if you're pushing the amp with the pedal, though, most of the dirt will be coming from the increased signal i.e. boost coming from teh pedal to drive the amp's preamp tubes harder.

Quote by mmolteratx
Cuz you needz 3 Dumble pedalz running into your Dumble amp or the tone isn't tubey enough.


hey i can even suggest an awesome $170 pedal for that. Or is that $30?

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#28
I seriously don't see the whole "don't use a distortion pedal with a tube amp" argumaent. Many many tube amps, OD or no OD simply do not produce the distortion that many modern players want. Sure, if your in that situation like I am then you should probally get an amp that suits your style much more, but then most people havn't got the money to splurge on an expensive amp just for the distortion they are after. I have had great results with various distortion pedals in front of my tube amp, especially for bedroom friendly levels.
#29
I use a DS-1, DN-2 and ZW-45 to boost my amp. Not simultaneously coz it sounds like muddy mud (I've tried). But I generally have my amp sound on the verge of breaking on the clean channel, then my distortion sound moderately dirty, and then depending on what kind of boost I need, I'll use one of the pedals. The DS-1 is my most extreme setting (not mad on gain, but lots of volume and tone backed off a bit, ZW-45 gives me a nice saturation with good gain boost, and the DN-2 gives me a bit of a more dynamic drive on the clean channel and quite a nice saturation on the drive sound.
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#30
I like my clean channel to be pristine clean on its' own. I add the TS9 to give it a bit of grit, and leave it on for my gain channels because it just sounds good.

Honestly there's never really a time I'm NOT using the TS9... it just works.
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#31
Quote by Raijouta
It's not always for more gain, more often it's to tighten the sound by removing a bit of bass and adding mids.

this. doing this in the input stage works differently to doing it with your onboard EQ.

i use overdrive, distortion and fuzz pedals with tube amps. they each hit the front end in a different way and the amp reacts to that differently.

a lot of people with little experience of these things seem to think that pedals cover up the sound of the amp and that's just false. any amp, good or bad, retains it's own nuances no matter what you run through it.
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#32
as much as i am not a fan of these forums, here is a good link on how gain structures work. http://www.tgpwebzine.com/?page_id=808 . read that and part II, and you will learn alot about how gain structures work.

basically IIRC and in a nutshell is that the frist gain stage is hard to drive hard enough for some people's tonal preferences, throw an overdrive to increase the amplitude (right word?) of the signal and intensifies it and gives the first gain stage a kick in the pants.

not all amps need it. 5150's and the like greatly benefit from so and that is probably the most common use for one.

actually really the few amps i have found to not need a boos to give you are really solid knock ya dead tone from V1 are my splawns, and some of the other high end more botique-ish high gain amps.
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#34
Quote by trashedlostfdup
as much as i am not a fan of these forums, here is a good link on how gain structures work. http://www.tgpwebzine.com/?page_id=808 . read that and part II, and you will learn alot about how gain structures work.


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I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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#35
Quote by trashedlostfdup
as much as i am not a fan of these forums, here is a good link on how gain structures work. http://www.tgpwebzine.com/?page_id=808 . read that and part II, and you will learn alot about how gain structures work.
Cool article but I fear that it will unleash the "know enough to be dangerous" in people. As in people saying distortion isn't dirt, and gain isn't distortion.

There is such a thing as vernacular. Guitarists speak in a music world vernacular, and engineers speak in an engineering world vernacular. As a long time engineer and short time guitarist I knew that gain was amplification and distortion was modifying the original signal long before I knew what a distortion pedal did or even existed.

IMO the article would have been better served by explaining that in order to explain the details of amp operation he was going to use these terms in the vernacular of a engineer. And that knowing this will help a guitarist understand what they mean in the context of a discussion of equipment and who they are talking to, rather than simply saying that distortion isn't dirt. Implying now they can go correct everyone else.
#36
on tubescreamers...

how does adding mids make it sound tighter? less mids = scooped = tight metalz tone =/=/ deffinately low mids anyway.

If people sound good plugging toasters into there amps then thats cool with me though.
#37
Quote by beckyjc
on tubescreamers...

how does adding mids make it sound tighter? less mids = scooped = tight metalz tone =/=/ deffinately low mids anyway.

If people sound good plugging toasters into there amps then thats cool with me though.

It's not just adding the mids, it cuts the bass as well.
More bass tends to muddy things up a bit. The dreaded flabby low end is an example.
By cutting some, you tighten up your tone some.
#38
Quote by beckyjc
on tubescreamers...

how does adding mids make it sound tighter? less mids = scooped = tight metalz tone =/=/ deffinately low mids anyway.

If people sound good plugging toasters into there amps then thats cool with me though.


It doesn't add mids. It cuts bass below 800Hz and treble above 800Hz, leaving the illusion of mid boost. Less bass before distortion helps prevent blocking distortion and other nasty effects that are described as "flabby" and the like.
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#39
it could turn your 2 channel amp into 4 channels. you have your clean sound, you throw a little OD in there. thats 2 channels at the push of a switch. your gain channel can have a nice rhythm dialed in and you engage the OD with gain veryy little dialed in, output max, and tone wherever you like it, and gives a nice crunchy rhythm and great solo tone. thats 4.
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