#1
Hello,

Yesterday I was practicing with my headphones plugged on the VOX VT 15. What I noticed is that the tone when using the headphones is quite different than the one coming out from the amp's speaker.

I suppose that is normal since the volume on the headphones is quite lower, but the tone seems really better, you get that punchy sound, like the one found on recorded metal albums. When using the speaker that tone is lost since there is bigger amounts of volume.

So my question is, is there any way to achieve that tone when using the amp's speaker? I am even using a tubescreamer but I if I really boost it with distortion there is huge amount of noise. Maybe a noisegate pedal would work?
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#2
Because the speaker shapes the tone differently, I'm guessing the headphone out has some sort of speaker simulation, which is probably a 4x12 or such which gives the tone a bigger and more full sound. But it also probably has been shaped by a microphone in some way (impulse response captured from a speaker with a mic or just some mic modelling if the cabinet is modelled too rather than an impulse) which will give it an album sound since what you hear on albums are mic'd cabinets.

So no, there is no way to achieve such a sound with one tiny speaker like that. It's probably also a pretty mediocre speaker compared to V30's, GT12-75 etc. which most professional metal albums use.
Last edited by Ascendant at Jun 24, 2011,
#3
So it could be achieved if I get a 2x12 or 4x12 cabinet with V30's on it? There is no room for 4x12 though.

How good would that work? the
Is it possible to connect the vox on it or you need a head?
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Last edited by zefs at Jun 24, 2011,
#4
Quote by zefs
So it could be achieved if I get a 2x12 or 4x12 cabinet with V30's on it? There is no room for 4x12 though.


Your never going to get a good recorded sound out of your parctice amp, no matter how many speakers of whatever type you try.

Im pretty sure when using the headphones on you amp it is using some sort of speaker simulation and bypassing the output transformer and speaker, just like if you used a pair of headphones into a multi effects unit, with no amp
#5
I see, so let's change the subject of this topic a bit, would purchasing a better 8 inch speaker to replace the one found on the vox help with the tone? Are there any 8" metal speakers out there and would it be possible to replace it?
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#6
Quote by zefs
I see, so let's change the subject of this topic a bit, would purchasing a better 8 inch speaker to replace the one found on the vox help with the tone? Are there any 8" metal speakers out there and would it be possible to replace it?

Dude, simply get a new amp, you can polish a turd as much as you want, it will still be a turd.
#7
I did purchase a 6505+ combo few months ago but didn't like the tone. I actually prefer the VOX, also it was too much for bedroom volumes and took huge amount in the room.

There aren't alot of options on good compact amps out there, that's why I am looking on improving my current gear.
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Last edited by zefs at Jun 24, 2011,
#8
well if you will only be using it in your room, id say look at a peavey vypyr. maybe even look into the new line 6 pod hd series. they will sound great with headphones, and can be used for louder practice. the only problem is they need some sort of amplification which will end up costing a lot for a bedroom rig. how much can you spend and what music will you be playing and how will the gear be used?
Originally posted by primusfan
When you crank up the gain to 10 and switch to the lead channel, it actually sounds like you are unjustifiably bombing an innocent foreign land.


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#9
If you only want bedroom levels you won't be getting album tones unless you start using amp simulation ala POD, Axe FX and such.
#10
Quote by zefs
I did purchase a 6505+ combo few months ago but didn't like the tone. I actually prefer the VOX, also it was too much for bedroom volumes and took huge amount in the room.

There aren't alot of options on good compact amps out there, that's why I am looking on improving my current gear.


You cant improve a vox vt 15, it is what it is...

How can anyone prefer a vt 15 over a 6505+ blows my mind, now im not sure if you even know what good tone sounds like...
#11
Get a POD, if you have the money. Great piece of equipment! I have not regretted buying it at all.
Yeah
#12
Quote by mcamp1230
, now im not sure if you even know what good tone sounds like...


Good tone is what I like, bad tone is what I don't, same as for you, the PIQ and everyone else.

Anything else isn't a question of tone, it's someone trying to tell other folks what they 'should' like...
#13
Quote by mcamp1230
You cant improve a vox vt 15, it is what it is...

How can anyone prefer a vt 15 over a 6505+ blows my mind, now im not sure if you even know what good tone sounds like...


I couldn't even use the Peavey's volume over 1, maybe that's why I didn't like it.
Also I prefer 80's / 90's metal tone.

Anyway, what about an MXR 108 EQ pedal? Does it go well with Tubescreamers? What will it improve if I add in on the loop?
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#14
umm just because you can put the volume over 1 doesn't meant that's where it should go.

the volume knob controls the volume.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#15
What? basically I was told you need to really turn it up in order to get good tone out of that amp since it's full tube. That's my point...
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#16
i have to say that while the 5150 sounds pretty good at low folumes, the area before 1 on the knob is pretty much just fizz and weird mids. i had to get mine to at least 1.5 before the actual tone started coming through lol. it would be one thing if he had to run it that low at home, then he got to turn it up at shows/practice, but he ONLY playing it that low. and to me there is really no need for a 5150 if you cant even turn it up loud enugh to hear what it actually sounds like.
Originally posted by primusfan
When you crank up the gain to 10 and switch to the lead channel, it actually sounds like you are unjustifiably bombing an innocent foreign land.


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τλε τρπ βπστλεπλσσδ
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#17
^ There is no need for an AMP at all if you can't even turn it up loud enough to hear what it actually sounds like. This is what's bothering me about the thread: I've played tube amps which were 100W and even 200W and they sound better than a modelling/SS amp at the same volume which I would call "bedroom/home volume". And it's not like my walls are shaking whenever I play at home.
#18
Well maybe you don't live in an appartment. We can't all have 100W amps at home.
That's not the point of the thread though. I don't want to play with headphones, since I play along with songs(from pc speakers).

My questions aren't getting answered though.

1) Would an EQ pedal help in the loop? and how?
2) Would a Noise Gate pedal help to eliminate the noise coming out of the amp when boosting up the Tubescreemer's knobs? Basically I only use Level knob at max right now on the TS9.

Basically I love how the guitar plays when using more gain by boosting the pedal's knobs but the sound gets over-distorted or whatever. That's why I am asking about getting some pedals to improve the overall sound/tone/playability.
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Last edited by zefs at Jun 24, 2011,
#19
A little modeler like the VT15 is always a nice thing to keep handy IMO.

Spending £40 on a decent weber or jensen 8" isn't a huge deal, and will probably improve the amp a lot.

Or if you ever plan on buying a stack you could invest in a good 2x12 and buy a head later, speakers do make a really big difference to tone. The Vox VTs are far from "turds".

Frankly the vox modelers sound more authentic to me than the pod, guitar rig, amplitube etc.

Its never gunna sound like it does through your headphones because you've got the full frequency range blasting straight into your ears, tilt the amp back so the speakers pointed towards your ears so your not missing all the high end and turn it up a bit to fill the air out.
#20
Quote by zefs
Well maybe you don't live in an appartment. We can't all have 100W amps at home.
That's not the point of the thread though. I don't want to play with headphones, since I play along with songs(from pc speakers).

OK, then face it like this:
Your VT15 won't sound much better, 8 inch speaker are generally not very great sounding, no matter which one you get. Running the VT into a bigger speaker will somewhat make it sound better, but it will still sound like it sounds, eventually it will sound even worse if the speaker's voicing doesn't match the amp's.
If you are planning to gig you could get something like a Line 6 POD and run it through the PA, at home you can run it through your PC-speakers or any other speakers you have at home.
If you are only playing at home, you could even just use amp modelling software for the computer: You get a little interface and the modelling software (Peavey ReValver, Guitar Rig, Amplitube, etc.) and play your guitar directly through your PC.
Those programs sound better than most modelling amps in that price range anyway.

EDIT: STOP boosting your modelling amp with a Tube Screamer!
Last edited by JesusCrisp at Jun 24, 2011,
#21
Quote by beckyjc
A little modeler like the VT15 is always a nice thing to keep handy IMO.

Spending £40 on a decent weber or jensen 8" isn't a huge deal, and will probably improve the amp a lot.

Or if you ever plan on buying a stack you could invest in a good 2x12 and buy a head later, speakers do make a really big difference to tone. The Vox VTs are far from "turds".

Frankly the vox modelers sound more authentic to me than the pod, guitar rig, amplitube etc.

Its never gunna sound like it does through your headphones because you've got the full frequency range blasting straight into your ears, tilt the amp back so the speakers pointed towards your ears so your not missing all the high end and turn it up a bit to fill the air out.



Thanks beckyjc,

Yeah actually, I have the amp sitting on my desk so it's pointed towards my ears, which really improves the tone than having it on the floor.

Should I use it at max wattage? Using the knob on the back of the amp, I actually have it set half way at the moment.

Also, do you think getting the pedals on my previous post is better option than upgrading the speaker? Which jester speakers are best suited for old school metal? Vintage ones?
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Last edited by zefs at Jun 24, 2011,
#22
Quote by JesusCrisp
If you are only playing at home, you could even just use amp modelling software for the computer: You get a little interface and the modelling software (Peavey ReValver, Guitar Rig, Amplitube, etc.) and play your guitar directly through your PC.
Those programs sound better than most modelling amps in that price range anyway.

EDIT: STOP boosting your modelling amp with a Tube Screamer!


Firstly, I also had this idea. Since I am using the PC speakers for listening to songs and play along though, would it be possible to connect a pod to a second set of speakers and play that way?

Thing is I would have to test and see if it works better than the vox before making such a purchase, becuase if it has little to no difference then there is no use.

Secondly, the thing about Tube Screamers and modelling amps is either not correct or it applies to SOME modeller amps only. It really sounds better with the tubescreamer, the vox has real tubes anyway, right?
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#23
Well i dont see the point of an attenuator on a modeling amp, but decide with your ears if it sounds better with the attenuator cutting the volume or the master volume cutting with the amp on full wattage.

This is what its about, what sounds good to you.

And EQ will help you shape your tone more, allow you to eliminate frequencies that sound bothersome, providing you know what your doing with it.

Download something like reaper record a few guitar tracks and play with the EQ plugins, see if you think it would benefit you. Remember, if you cut you must boost, make subtle adjustments, judge with your ears not your eyes.

The amp already has a built in noise gate IRRC, have a look through the manual to see how to access it.
#24
Yeah I have already tried it's noise gate. It helps but I am not sure if it's as good as a pedal though. And if you use it more than 5 o'clock it sucks your tone.
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#25
Well im pretty sure its not as good as the decimator, but without an FX loop youll just be eliminating noise from your guitar and pedal rather than the amps noise.

And yeah they do suck tone, you need to go easier with the boosting and gain really, turn your volume down a bit on the guitar.
Last edited by beckyjc at Jun 24, 2011,
#26
So what I'm getting is:

You want fairly high gain tone at the quietest volume possible. You want to record. You like the sound of speaker-emulation in your VT more than real speaker out. From here I think you've got two practical options--

1) Stick a Celestion Super 8 in that bastard and see how you like it.

2) Buy a DI Box and some good software with good high gain modelling and record direct into your computer.
Last edited by Seref at Jun 24, 2011,
#27
Quote by Ascendant
If you only want bedroom levels you won't be getting album tones unless you start using amp simulation ala POD, Axe FX and such.



Attentuators
#28
Well one of the reasons I am not using a lot of volume is that the tone changes, I mean if you add volume on the VOX VT then the distortion is lost a bit. So you need to eq again, and add more gain.

If you do that, the noise also becomes worse, and the noise that comes out of the amp when using a lot of distortion is getting worse at higher volumes. So it's a no go.

Recording is not in my plans atleast for now, I am still learning how to play.
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#29
try playing with the "tube" power/output dial at the back. I'd imagine you want it cranked to get the best sound, while keeping your master volume itself low. maybe when the headphones are plugged in, full power is being simulated, leaving you with just volume to control? i dunno, just a thought. play with that output gain knob at the back.
#30
Ok will try that although I remember that I didn't notice any difference when I was playing with it.

Also, I just connected my PC Speakers jack on the amp and it works, you actually get this emulated sound a bit. Thing is I also downloaded Amplitube and can't get it to work.
Do I need a sound card in order to make it work?
Maybe JesusCrisp has an idea about it since he suggested it.

Also found a guitar to USB adaptor, would that work or I would need a sound card for the computer? is there a difference?
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Last edited by zefs at Jun 25, 2011,
#31
You need a USB or firewire audio interface that has instrument jacks plugging your guitar into your computer soundcard will sound like ass and have loads of latency..

Check out
Presonus audio box
M-audio fast track
Digidesign Mbox
Tascam US122
Line 6 UX1/GX
Alesis Io2
#32
Does it matter which one of these I get? I don't need anything really professional.
I see that the Line 6 are the most cheap does the GX have a headphone jack?

The UX1 seems to have a headphone jack so I suppose I can plug in both my guitar and my computers speakers right?

Also can I use any software I like with these pods?
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Last edited by zefs at Jun 25, 2011,
#33
If your just planning on using your guitar, with no plans to try recording in the future then just go for the GX.

Right, an audio interface acts as a sound card. It will have nothing to do with your onboard sound, so itll have its own headphone jack/monitor out, you can plug these into your pc speakers or headphones. But you'll have to unplug your PC speakers from the computer, unless your speakers allow you to plug in an external device as well (Mine do...).

Pods? If you mean interface then yeah you can you can use any suite you like.

Amplitube is terribly CPU intensive, your computer might not be able to handle it. In which case, check out guitar rig 4 too.
#34
Wait, because I got a little confused :p

So, I get the GX, or UX1 - I plug it on my computer using USB. Install drivers if necessary and every software recognizes it as audio interface. Then I plug in the guitar and the speakers on it.

After that, I plug a second set of speakers on my PC instead this time, so I can play along with songs that are played through the computer.

Is that correct? I don't see how I can plug the speakers on a GX though since it doesn't have a headphone jack. The UX1 is +20$ anyway.
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Last edited by zefs at Jun 25, 2011,
#35
Ok, I hope this question doesnt get too far off subject, but here it goes: Would a nice quality tube amp( like a blackstar ht-5) make my rp355 sound better? Or would it sound the same as plugging headphones into the rp355? I know the cube won't make it sound better because it's a modeling amp, but will a tube amp make the rp sound better?
Guitars: Fender FSR Standard Strat, Squire Affinity Strat, Epiphone Nighthawk
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#36
Quote by zefs
What? basically I was told you need to really turn it up in order to get good tone out of that amp since it's full tube. That's my point...

Who told you that rubbish? The VT is not even close to being full tube. It has a tube driver in the power amp, that's it.
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#37
Quote by kutless999
Ok, I hope this question doesnt get too far off subject, but here it goes: Would a nice quality tube amp( like a blackstar ht-5) make my rp355 sound better? Or would it sound the same as plugging headphones into the rp355? I know the cube won't make it sound better because it's a modeling amp, but will a tube amp make the rp sound better?

Anyone?
Guitars: Fender FSR Standard Strat, Squire Affinity Strat, Epiphone Nighthawk
Amps: Vox AC15C1, Roland Cube 15x, Peavey KB-1
Pedals: Digitech RP355, HD500, Joyo AC-Tone, EHX Soul Food
#38
Quote by zefs
Wait, because I got a little confused :p

So, I get the GX, or UX1 - I plug it on my computer using USB. Install drivers if necessary and every software recognizes it as audio interface. Then I plug in the guitar and the speakers on it.

After that, I plug a second set of speakers on my PC instead this time, so I can play along with songs that are played through the computer.

Is that correct? I don't see how I can plug the speakers on a GX though since it doesn't have a headphone jack. The UX1 is +20$ anyway.


the audio interface is a soundcard, your computer will use it as the main soundcard when its plugged in, which means you can listen to songs the same time as you play with the amp simulation software (you hear the song and your playing from same speaker/headphones)
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