#1
Hey guys

I recently begun dabbling in some basic music theory.
At first I was just trying to memorize some scales my teacher gave me, but then I looked in this book my brother bought me, and I noticed a section about scales and modes.

Now, I'd like some confirmation on this, but the way I see it, Modes are basically the blueprint for a scale, right? Like, a E major scale is the Ionic mode where you use an E as the "basenote"(not sure what the correct terms and names are in English)

So, in that sense, is there a need to memorize the individual scales?
It seems it would be more useful to memorize the modes, and learn to apply them.
Seems to me that would make it more "dynamic" so to speak.

If there's any programmers on here, it reminded me of how Object Oriented works in regards to classes and objects, where a mode would be a class, the blueprint.
And the scale is the object, the execution of the blueprint.

Am I right or spewing complete nonsense here?
This is the part where you are supposed to be amazed by the awesomeness of my sig.
#2
I can't help you personally here, but isn't there a sticky somewhere about this? There seem to be about one mode post a day here. If not, I'll keep my mouth shut.
REGGIE
#3
Quote by MarauderNL
Hey guys

I recently begun dabbling in some basic music theory.
At first I was just trying to memorize some scales my teacher gave me, but then I looked in this book my brother bought me, and I noticed a section about scales and modes.

Now, I'd like some confirmation on this, but the way I see it, Modes are basically the blueprint for a scale, right? Like, a E major scale is the Ionic mode where you use an E as the "basenote"(not sure what the correct terms and names are in English)

So, in that sense, is there a need to memorize the individual scales?
It seems it would be more useful to memorize the modes, and learn to apply them.
Seems to me that would make it more "dynamic" so to speak.

If there's any programmers on here, it reminded me of how Object Oriented works in regards to classes and objects, where a mode would be a class, the blueprint.
And the scale is the object, the execution of the blueprint.

Am I right or spewing complete nonsense here?


Modal shapes, and applications are different. You can have the code (shape, formula etc), but there's a very specific way that that code must be executed, to make the application truly Modal. Unless that is the case, you are only playing a long, strung out version of Major and Natural minor scales.

So if you see Modes, without having that understanding, think of them as different places and ways to play the notes of a Major or Minor Scale, and a system of organizing those things, and not modal. Only in limited and specific instances will it truly be Modal. So, you can use as reference and and abstract name to give it something, although you could call the scale Marsha too if you like, but do not see playing them as being the equivalent to "using modes" unless you have a much more developed sense of theory and understanding of scale chord and tonal harmony functions. Doing so is like hanging from a rope that's not tied at the other end.

Best,

Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at Jun 24, 2011,
#4
Youll have more luck if you think of modes as altered scales really.

Instead of thinking of D dorian as the second mode of C, just think of it as D minor with a natural six. Dont think of F lydian as the fourth mode of C. Think of it as F major with an augmented 4th
#5
Quote by thebassiestbass
Youll have more luck if you think of modes as altered scales really.

Instead of thinking of D dorian as the second mode of C, just think of it as D minor with a natural six. Dont think of F lydian as the fourth mode of C. Think of it as F major with an augmented 4th


that...kind of defeats the purpose of modes. if you do this you just have keys with accidentals.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#6
Well the way I think of modes is like this. You know if you have a song in C major right or A minor? Well they are modes of the major scale. Everything is based off of the major scale. So if you take the standard major/minor chords from C major and you keep resolving the progression on A minor then you are using the Aeolian mode.

Or you can take those same chords and play them so you have a sense of resolution on the Dm chord. You will now be in the key of D Dorian.

So you see...modes are just created by having a different tonic or sense of resolution when you resolve on different chords.

Try playing the playing a Dm chord first and then follow with the C major scale but start and resolve on the D notes, then end with a Dm chord to help give you a sense of what the mode sounds like. Better yet just jam to a backing track on youtube. Search Dorian.
Last edited by Appetite_4_GNR at Jun 24, 2011,
#7
Quote by Appetite_4_GNR
Well the way I think of modes is like this. You know if you have a song in C major right or A minor? Well they are modes of the major scale. Everything is based off of the major scale. So if you take the standard major/minor chords from C major and you keep resolving the progression on A minor then you are using the Aeolian mode.

Or you can take those same chords and play them so you have a sense of resolution on the Dm chord. You will now be in the key of D Dorian.

So you see...modes are just created by having a different tonic or sense of resolution when you resolve on different chords.

Try playing the playing a Dm chord first and then follow with the C major scale but start and resolve on the D notes, then end with a Dm chord to help give you a sense of what the mode sounds like. Better yet just jam to a backing track on youtube. Search Dorian.


you're not really wrong here -- it IS all in the resolution. but it's not easy to play a random assortment of chords from the seven available diatonic triads in C major and resolve to D, because the chords will, because of what we are used to hearing, want to resolve to either Cmaj or Am. if you have to FORCE the resolution, it's not a good resolution.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#8
Quote by Appetite_4_GNR
Well the way I think of modes is like this. You know if you have a song in C major right or A minor? Well they are modes of the major scale. Everything is based off of the major scale. So if you take the standard major/minor chords from C major and you keep resolving the progression on A minor then you are using the Aeolian mode.

Or you can take those same chords and play them so you have a sense of resolution on the Dm chord. You will now be in the key of D Dorian.

So you see...modes are just created by having a different tonic or sense of resolution when you resolve on different chords.

Try playing the playing a Dm chord first and then follow with the C major scale but start and resolve on the D notes, then end with a Dm chord to help give you a sense of what the mode sounds like. Better yet just jam to a backing track on youtube. Search Dorian.


I agree with Wolf, you ARE right...but doing it that way is a lot easier said than done. Try it sometime (not specifically you, but anyone that reads this). Apply that, and you'll find that unless you are veryyyy astute at this, you'll have a hard time being resolved.

Kudos for understanding the modal aspect is so tied to a tonal resolution - that's a tier higher than many ever get.

Sean
#9
I use the idea of modes to learn 7 scales. while anilyzing my music I just noticed that every formula for the mode scales was in the song. So even tho I was not using modes to play modally i was only using them to learn new major and minor scales.

This seems to be pretty much what your doing and what sean was speaking of in his first post.

Modes is a great way to learn scales. but Your not playing modes. There just scales
#10
Quote by metalmetalhead
I use the idea of modes to learn 7 scales. while anilyzing my music I just noticed that every formula for the mode scales was in the song. So even tho I was not using modes to play modally i was only using them to learn new major and minor scales.

This seems to be pretty much what your doing and what sean was speaking of in his first post.

Modes is a great way to learn scales. but Your not playing modes. There just scales


Do you just mean the CAGED method, major and minor scales, major and minor scales with accidentals, or traditional modes? It's pretty hard to follow your argument.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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