#1
Alright bass forum, this might not be the place to ask, but I don't really want to go to the Pit for this..

How does a band like Meshuggah for example, have 8 strings tuned down to F (equivalent to a bass's first fret) and achieve it using a .70 gauge string, but us bassists have to use a 100-110 to get the same note? I mean, it's the same note, but it can be achieved with a smaller scale and thinner strings? The bassist of Meshuggah doesn't tune down to F, he tunes up, so he's at the same octave as the guitarists. Can anybody help explain this or am I missing the point?

The only explanation I have for myself is that even though they're hitting that note, im assuming we use thicker strings and a longer scale to get a bassy tone. Other than that, I "" at the thought of this. It almost doesn't make any sense.
pinga
#2
Even though they can still hit that F, can you imagine playing a Miles Davies bassline on an 8 string guitar? It wouldn't feel or sound right, which is where the 34 inch scale coems into play. It gives it a whole different tone to a guitar, as well as the thicker guage strings.
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#3
Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking. There's so many things about sound that confuses me sometimes.
pinga
#4
Bass guitars sound bassier and generally more hi fi ish than a guitar, which is a mid range instrument.

Play a bass guitar, you will find a massive amount of low end. Which a guitar doesnt have.
Bass is for rhythm and for filling up the sound, and usually not for making melody lines (virtuoso bassists aside).
EDIT: And thicker strings bring out more low end, so does a longer scale. Emphasises the lower frequencies. Play an E on the open E string, plat the same note found strings down. Sounds a lot thicker and bassier.
Last edited by GS LEAD 5 at Jun 25, 2011,
#5
Thanks guys. I thought it was some crazy mind**** explanation.

Now that that question has been answered, there's one more thing I don't understand. If the low E on a bass is roughly 41-42hz, why are some bass cabs rated for a frequency response of above that? It doesn't make any sense.

For example: http://www.zzounds.com/item--AMPSVT410HLF this Ampeg 410 is rated for a freq. response of 48hz. I don't understand I would imagine that the lower the rating is, the bassier or lower the cab would sound or can handle. But according to it's specs, it can't even handle an open E string? (I know this isn't the case, but why is the rating so high?)
pinga
#6
I won't get into to detail cause I'll mess up my words and make you more confused that you already are (and probably myself as well), but it's to do with the overtones of the higher frequencies that the low E puts out.
Quote by skater dan0
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#7
Quote by fleajr_1412
I won't get into to detail cause I'll mess up my words and make you more confused that you already are (and probably myself as well), but it's to do with the overtones of the higher frequencies that the low E puts out.

I thought of overtones, but my way of thinking about it was probably compression? I figured when you play a low E, it's more compressed than a pure 41hz tone/wave. So...I guess..

Man, I don't know. All I know is that you can hear and even feel a difference between a low E on a bass guitar and an actual 41hz tone coming out of a subwoofer. How? I have no idea. Sound can be so confusing sometimes.
pinga
#8
A low E at 41Hz will also produce tones at 82Hz, 164Hz, 328Hz and so on.
#9
So for example, that 410 cab wouldn't sound too bassy? Hell, a low B is around 30hz.
pinga
#10
If you want more low end then you need to be looking at larger speakers.
#11
Quote by So-Cal
If you want more low end then you need to be looking at larger speakers.


Not really. Cab construction and different speaker type make a huge difference. Much more than speaker size.
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Last edited by gilly_90 at Jun 25, 2011,
#12
Quote by gilly_90
Not really. Cab construction and different speaker type make a huge difference. Much more than speaker size.

what do you mean by speaker type?
#14
I don't know the actual physics or technicality behind it, there was a guy on here a few months back who explained it perfectly and if I find his post, I'll link you.

My only example is if you have a look for 10" bass speakers, you'll find bass frequency responces anywhere from maybe 10 or 20hz to anything above 55 or so.

Also, my earphones I use for my computer are tiny, but the bass frequency response goes down to something like 20hz.

Quote by Deliriumbassist
Ribbon tweeter, horn tweeter, long throw subwoofer, midrange driver, silk dome tweeter... there's loads of types of loudspeaker.

Would that make the difference I'm trying to explain? I really don't know much about speaker technicalities.
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Quote by Cb4rabid
Okay guys, I have a confession to make. Not really a confession since it's something that's been bugging me for awhile but I've always been in denial about it.

**** you gilly, it's not what you think
Last edited by gilly_90 at Jun 25, 2011,
#15
Quote by gilly_90

Would that make the difference I'm trying to explain? I really don't know much about speaker technicalities.


Huge differences. Then you've got concepts such as breakup points, cabinet bracing, porting/infinite baffle, magnet type and tons more I don't know about.
#16
Quote by Deliriumbassist
Huge differences. Then you've got concepts such as breakup points, cabinet bracing, porting/infinite baffle, magnet type and tons more I don't know about.




Speaker material, porting and magnet type were they ony one I was familiar with.
Quote by UraniYum
Fuck you I'm trying to be caring and shit


Quote by Cb4rabid
Okay guys, I have a confession to make. Not really a confession since it's something that's been bugging me for awhile but I've always been in denial about it.

**** you gilly, it's not what you think
#17
tweeters usually produce higher frequencies and are smaller though right?
#18
Quote by So-Cal
tweeters usually produce higher frequencies and are smaller though right?


I was just reeling off a short list of speaker types. Some cabs do have tweeters, which will affect the frequency response of the cab. Speakers being range specific or full range will also have an effect on the frequency response. You also have inclusion of whizzer cones to full range drivers to improve the high end response, as well as designs like Walsh drivers or electrostatic.

You can get larger dome speakers that will cover the low end though. Rare, but they are there.
#20
Do they always play down that low on their guitars. I dont listen to them, but i imagine one of the things is ease of access and to help with moving round the board at other places to play whatever there playing.

I sort of dont get what your asking though, maybe its cause im tired.
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#21
Quote by fatgoogle
Do they always play down that low on their guitars. I dont listen to them, but i imagine one of the things is ease of access and to help with moving round the board at other places to play whatever there playing.

I sort of dont get what your asking though, maybe its cause im tired.

Yeah, they do constantly. They downtune for the br00tz though
pinga
#22
Also remember the speakers. A general guitar loudspeaker will not produce the fundamental that low especially with distortion. Your just hearing a series of overtones. While a bass loudspeaker will get closer if not prodruce it.
Yamaha TRB1006
Fender MIA jazz bass
Hora Hybrid double bass
Hartke lh 500
Ev 606L
Epiphone les paul