#1
Hey all.

I wonder how can you know if something is either in 7/8 76/16 7/4 or 7/32nd.
I mean 7/32 contains 7 notes and 7/8 too.
How can I solo comfortable in something like 9/8 or 7/8.
And how could I change my time sig in the middle of a song?
#2
In 7/8 time, there are seven beats in a measure, and an eighth note gets one beat. Similarly in 7/16 time, a sixteenth note gets a beat. It's easy to tell. I don't know what idiot would write something in a ridiculous time signature like 76/16, or why someone would use 7/32 time.
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#3
Quote by liampje
Hey all.

I wonder how can you know if something is either in 7/8 76/16 7/4 or 7/32nd.
I mean 7/32 contains 7 notes and 7/8 too.


Look at the tempo.

How can I solo comfortable in something like 9/8 or 7/8.


Practice.

And how could I change my time sig in the middle of a song?

You just do.
#4
You should feel the beats by the natural dynamics of the piece. It takes some time learning to hear the difference between 7/8 and 7/4, especially when the time signature changes often with varying prominent beats. It may sound funny, but think of how you move to the song. The high-hats sometimes can give a lot of information.

To use odd time properly, the chorus usually has the simpler time signature. You have to remember that, for example, in 4/4; the notes that you use during the predominant beats are a lot more important than the ones you pass though quickly or on a weak beat. Each time signature has a characteristic sound. To write good music, it should flow effortlessly. People will notice if you're putting in strange time signatures just for the sake of sounding more complex. Good musicians make the time signature almost unnoticeable, unless you're analyzing the song.
#5
Quote by liampje
Hey all.

I wonder how can you know if something is either in 7/8 76/16 7/4 or 7/32nd.
I mean 7/32 contains 7 notes and 7/8 too.


First off I'm assuming you meant to say 7/16, not 76/16 which i'm pretty sure no one has ever written for obvious reasons.

they change the way the beat is felt, and they also kind of imply tempos. So if you want the strong beats of the song to be felt like

1 2 3 4 5 6 7

That is 7/8, a measure would consist of quarternote, quarternote, dotted quarternote. Usually the 8th note pulse is pretty fast

If the tempo is slower more like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeDwZPDqSk8

That would probably be notated in 7/4.


How can I solo comfortable in something like 9/8 or 7/8.


Practice definitely! but also, listen to other players do it! If you don't notice that the song is in an odd meter, than it is being done well, if it is obvious that the song is in a strange meter, then try not to model your playing off of that.

Again http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeDwZPDqSk8


And how could I change my time sig in the middle of a song?


At the begging of the new measure, write the new time signature, the pulse of the 8th note stays the same in the new time signature, but the feel will change.

once again http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeDwZPDqSk8
Love the world, and it will love you back.

Aaron Chase
B.M. Berklee College of Music 2008
Songwriting and Guitar Performance
aaronchasemusic.com
#6
Quote by liampje
Hey all.



I wonder how can you know if something is either in 7/8 76/16 7/4 or 7/32nd.

I mean 7/32 contains 7 notes and 7/8 too.

How can I solo comfortable in something like 9/8 or 7/8.

And how could I change my time sig in the middle of a song?




To get comfortable with odd time, you have to play in odd time and learn songs in odd time. Nothing else to it. Everything Rush did in the late 70's has odd time in it. Seriously.



To change between time signatures, look for common ground in their construction. Every signature is built out of groups of 2's and 3's, keep some consistency as you change to make it smooth. "Whipping Post" (Allman Bros.) starts in 11/8, then moves to 6/8.





11/8: 1 la li 2 la li 3 la li 4 and

6/8 : 1 la li 2 la li





Notice how the 6/8 pattern completely fits within the 11/8 pattern. They just add/subtract the final 5/8 to move between the two sigs. A similar thing happens in Cream's "What a Bringdown" with 10/8 and 6/8.





10/8: 1 la li 2 la li 3 and 4 and

6/8 : 1 la li 2 la li





Dig? Try some of your own combinations. How about 3/4 to 7/8?





3/4: 1 and 2 and 3 and

7/8: 1 and 2 and 3 la li





Just add an eighth on the end; it turns the 3rd beat from a 2 count to a 3 count.



Seriously, though, Rush. "Limelight" starts in 7/4 and continues in 4/4 and 6/8. "Freewill" runs the gambit: 4/4, 5/4, 6/4, 7/4 and 12/8. "The Trees" has 6/8, 4/4, 10/8 and 3/4. "La Villa Strangiato" has 4/4, 7/8, 9/8 and 12/8 (I think I'm forgetting one.)



Keep learning odd-time songs: there's no replacement for hearing it in action. Anything "progressive" will have plenty of this.



I'll leave your first question to someone with more time on their hands. Hope this helped.
Nothing that is worthwhile in life will ever come easy.
#7
If you are listening to a piece of music (and don't have the score), there is no way of telling if it is in 7/4, 7/8 or 7/16 time. The composer decides what note value to use as the pulse. Generally if the 7 pulses are slow/moderate speed then it is likely 7/4 and if they are fast pulses then it may be notated as 7/8.

For soloing in odd time signatures, try to first understand where the accents are in the meter. For instance, a piece in 7/4 time could be accented as 4+3 or 3+4. Some 7/4 pieces may be accented strongly as 2+2+3 or 3+2+2 as well. Subdividing the beat is an essential skill for counting and playing rhythms accurately.
#8
soloing in 9/8 or 7/8 is a very very tough thing to do . . . my advice would be to listen to the backing track over and over again until you're counting the beats as if it was 4/4 to you. then just play along the rhythm a bit, keep chucking in more and more notes as you go along and before you know it you'll be well on your way to constructing what would be one of the most complicated solo's you've ever written :L
#9
whether something is in 7/8, 7/4, etc. depends entirely on the written notation.

if i were to compose a piece in 7/4, i could halve the note values and change the time signature to 7/8, and it'd sound exactly the same.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#11
Quote by liampje
Hey all.

I wonder how can you know if something is either in 7/8 76/16 7/4 or 7/32nd.
I mean 7/32 contains 7 notes and 7/8 too.
How can I solo comfortable in something like 9/8 or 7/8.
And how could I change my time sig in the middle of a song?


Learn the basics of rhythm.

Practice them a long long time till you can feel and recognize the subdivisions of notes rests and ties and correctly notate them as well as internalize them.

Then start with gradually more complex rhythms, make sure that you can do that say in 7/8 5/8 at first, and can keep mental count.

Practice slowly, take a long time with these, until it's internallized.

Dont move to 16ths until 8th notes are perfect. I'm not talking about playing them, I'm talking about notating them, understanding and navigating rests and ties as well.

Continue from there, you'll know how to do the rest, by applying the same - Learn something simple thoroughly, and then add to it with something more challenging.

Best,

Sean
#12
Quote by aaronchase
First off I'm assuming you meant to say 7/16, not 76/16 which i'm pretty sure no one has ever written for obvious reasons.

they change the way the beat is felt, and they also kind of imply tempos. So if you want the strong beats of the song to be felt like

1 2 3 4 5 6 7

That is 7/8, a measure would consist of quarternote, quarternote, dotted quarternote. Usually the 8th note pulse is pretty fast

If the tempo is slower more like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeDwZPDqSk8

That would probably be notated in 7/4.


Practice definitely! but also, listen to other players do it! If you don't notice that the song is in an odd meter, than it is being done well, if it is obvious that the song is in a strange meter, then try not to model your playing off of that.

Again http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeDwZPDqSk8


At the begging of the new measure, write the new time signature, the pulse of the 8th note stays the same in the new time signature, but the feel will change.

once again http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeDwZPDqSk8

I know how you could count them.
You can even do 12 12 12 1 12 12 12 1 or 123 12 12 12 123 12 etc.
Is sleeping with a metronome banging these beats gonna make this second nature?
#13
You could always, you know, just learn how to tap your foot to the beats. That's really all it is.

I'm not sure what instruments you play, but I'm guessing it's just guitar, which isn't really inclined to reading/learning sheet music. Get a hold of some music scores and analyze them and start doing the age-old elementary trick of clapping and counting. You'll look absolutely ridiculous, but it's a lot better than using a metronome as background noise.

Being able to identify rhythms and meters quickly is pretty much necessary for everything ever.
modes are a social construct
Last edited by Hail at Jun 28, 2011,
#15
Quote by Hail
You could always, you know, just learn how to tap your foot to the beats. That's really all it is.

I'm not sure what instruments you play, but I'm guessing it's just guitar, which isn't really inclined to reading/learning sheet music. Get a hold of some music scores and analyze them and start doing the age-old elementary trick of clapping and counting. You'll look absolutely ridiculous, but it's a lot better than using a metronome as background noise.

Being able to identify rhythms and meters quickly is pretty much necessary for everything ever.

I found an excersice.
I just tap my legs when I'm riding my bike=p.
When I've got that down I'll move to making my own rythms.
The only tricky thing is that it is always one eight note to early for your feeling.
#16
Quote by liampje
I found an excersice.
I just tap my legs when I'm riding my bike=p.
When I've got that down I'll move to making my own rythms.
The only tricky thing is that it is always one eight note to early for your feeling.


Isn't that annoying when riding uphill?
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#17
Quote by AlanHB
Isn't that annoying when riding uphill?

I never ride uphill, but I think I could, I'm Dutch everyone is using bikes there.