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#1
So let me get this straight...

In the public sector, your pension will be based on an average of how much you earn throughout your career? And the pension age has been raised to 65 because of an increase of life expectancy?

Have I got this right? Can someone please explain this further for my little brain?
Woffelz

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#2
Yes that's about right. But teaching is very physically demanding, you can't do it when you get into your 60s, it would be too physically draining.
#3
and with the pensions they now pay more to get less out + they have les money anyway because of inflation and frozen pay.
#4
Thank you, Mistress Ibanez.

So how much is this different from the current system?

Just to clarify, you pay a percentage of your earning into a pension scheme in the current system, right?
Woffelz

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#5
Quote by Woffelz
Thank you, Mistress Ibanez.

So how much is this different from the current system?

Just to clarify, you pay a percentage of your earning into a pension scheme in the current system, right?

I don't know the specifics, but I believe the jist is that they're asking for a higher contribution to the pension system and they're getting a less generous pension. (I tend to keep up with education news, haven't been following the strike action unfortunately.)
#6
Quote by Woffelz
Thank you, Mistress Ibanez.

So how much is this different from the current system?

Just to clarify, you pay a percentage of your earning into a pension scheme in the current system, right?


You pay more to get less out. Teachers are approximately £100,000 worse off under the new scheme, because they pay more to get less.

It's just a complete insult.
#7
They raise the age to 65? In the Netherlands it was 65 and it will be raised to 67. I think it should be raised to 70. The current system is too expensive thanx to those babyboomers.
Quote by Carmel
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ಠ_ಠ
#8
Quote by Neo Evil11
They raise the age to 65? In the Netherlands it was 65 and it will be raised to 67. I think it should be raised to 70. The current system is too expensive thanx to those babyboomers.


Why do you want to be working until you are 70?
#9
Quote by Neo Evil11
They raise the age to 65? In the Netherlands it was 65 and it will be raised to 67. I think it should be raised to 70. The current system is too expensive thanx to those babyboomers.

Imagine all of your grandparents trying to teach at 70 years old.
#10
Quote by Craigo
Imagine all of your grandparents trying to teach at 70 years old.


You can stop earlier, but you have to save up yourself. The entire system was invented when people didn't live that long and when there were more young than old people. Times change so the system should too.

And yes I will work till I am 70 or save for it to stop earlier.
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#11
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
Why do you want to be working until you are 70?


Oh I have a good comeback to that:
I sure want to be working you untill we are 70.
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#12
Quote by Neo Evil11
You can stop earlier, but you have to save up yourself. The entire system was invented when people didn't live that long and when there were more young than old people. Times change so the system should too.

And yes I will work till I am 70 or save for it to stop earlier.

Yeah, times are changing and it presents us with unique challenges and questions, including: can we really have 69 year old teachers? You can't just say 'oh you're going to have to work harder and longer, tough shit' because there's a serious issue of suitable employment for those in that age range. Sure - some could definitely teach at 69. For others, including my grandfather who was a teacher, that wouldn't have been desirable.
#14
Quote by Craigo
wtf are you doing.


Behaving like a Male Chauvinist Pig?
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#15
Quote by Neo Evil11
Oh I have a good comeback to that:
I sure want to be working you untill we are 70.


OH.

It's because you're an idiot. Ok.


Never mind. Working until you're old is bad because it means you have to work when you are old. Understand the problem with working until you die?
#16
Quote by Neo Evil11
You can stop earlier, but you have to save up yourself. The entire system was invented when people didn't live that long and when there were more young than old people. Times change so the system should too.

And yes I will work till I am 70 or save for it to stop earlier.

Of course there are a number of issues with this overly simplistic view, although it is a great plan to ensure that less people make it to 70 in the first place, so kudos on that.
There's the big issue that you seem to be missing which is that it's well and good to say "hey, save if you want to retire before you die", but that's kind of difficult to do when during the time you were supposed to be saving you were told "it's grand, you can retire at 65", only to have the finishline moved later.
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#17
sometimes i worry that i dont/wont have any pension plans, but then again i dont plan on stopping working so it doesnt really matter.

though for these guys it kinda sucks.
now extra flamey
#18
Hang on.

I thought you pay more, but the money contributed is spread out through the retirement, making you poorer during retirement? Have I got this wrong?
Woffelz

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#20
The current deal is a final salary scheme meaning although you contribute over your entire career, your pension payments are based upon the salary you were earning upon retirement.

Instead, what they want to do is move it to a career average amount which will be less because (a) you're more likely to have been promoted than demoted over the years, and (b) because of inflation. Also the age at which they can claim the pension is being moved to be in line with the national retirement age.


so you work longer and get significantly less money than you were expecting to get when you entered into the agreement.
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Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#21
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
OH.

It's because you're an idiot. Ok.


Never mind. Working until you're old is bad because it means you have to work when you are old. Understand the problem with working until you die?


WOW wait hold on! I didn't know we were starting to give terms of endearment yet.

edit: After taking it into consideration, I have decided that you will be named miss Shagalot.
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
Last edited by Neo Evil11 at Jun 29, 2011,
#22
Quote by Neo Evil11
WOW wait hold on! I didn't know we were starting to give terms of endearment yet.

edit: After taking it into consideration, I have decided that you will be named miss Shagalot.


Reported for flaming.
#23
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
Reported for flaming.


Hmm that's quite unexpected. Guess that will be a perma.
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#24
Quote by Neo Evil11
Hmm that's quite unexpected. Guess that will be a perma.


Well what did you expect to achieve by posting it? To derail the thread? It's quite an important issue and you are just being antagonistic for no reason.


On topic: The strike is tomorrow. I look forward to hearing about it.
#25
I find it hard to sympathise with public sector strikes when the average public sector pension has now overtaken private sector.
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#26
Quote by frnzd
I find it hard to sympathise with public sector strikes when the average public sector pension has now overtaken private sector.


Why? Private sector should provide better. The private sector, by definition, only cares about profit, so are you surprised that workers get a bad deal?
#27
Quote by frnzd
I find it hard to sympathise with public sector strikes when the average public sector pension has now overtaken private sector.

I wouldn't say it's overtaken, more like the private sector fell behind due to profit seeking.
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Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#29
You still have it better than us. Collective bargaining by public workers is basically illegal in like 5 states now, with more heading in that direction. But by all means, please strike away, seeing as the workers are the ones in the right here. It'd be nice to hear some good news coming out of labor disputes.

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#30
Does this have any effect on the women's age of retirement going up?
Because I've seen women's rights groups whinging about that on the news, and even my mum doesn't understand why they are.

Also, **** you striking teachers. I wanted to drop all my old textbooks off tomorrow, but can't
#32
So nobody cared about this at all?
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#33
Quote by Lemoninfluence
So nobody cared about this at all?


Such a shame since it's a really important issue.
#34
Quote by frnzd
I find it hard to sympathise with public sector strikes when the average public sector pension has now overtaken private sector.


I find it hard to sympathise with any one on minimum wage because some countries don't have that.

See where that argument gets us?

Quote by Lemoninfluence
So nobody cared about this at all?


I was waiting for someone to post. Not much else to do otherwise.
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#35
I CARE.

This doesn't even maek sense from a recession perspective, as the majoirty of the change from this will happen in 20-30 years. Makes no sense.
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there ain't no heaven and there ain't no hell,
but I am a sinner so it's all just as well
#36
Despite these changes, the pension scheme is still better than 99% of pension schemes you'll find in the private sector, there are very few final salary schemes still open, even fewer accept new members.

And its not just corporate greed closing them down, they can cost millions of pounds a year to address deficits, it doesn't make financial sense for the private or public sector to offer a pension scheme this generous.

I don't really see why the whole country should be contributing their taxes so local government workers can get a better pension than private sector workers.
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#37
Well the strikes in Liverpool seem to have gone well. Although the home office is claiming that only 190 passport office staff went on strike compared to to the 537 the PCS claims.

My mate works at the Border Agency and as far as he's aware, everyone was striking (although it's unlikely that people would broadcast the fact that they weren't).

There was a decent sized march and support was generally quite good from what I've seen and heard. Although if the government stats are accurate, the turnout must have been awful elsewhere.
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#38
Quote by adamstartin
Despite these changes, the pension scheme is still better than 99% of pension schemes you'll find in the private sector, there are very few final salary schemes still open, even fewer accept new members.

And its not just corporate greed closing them down, they can cost millions of pounds a year to address deficits, it doesn't make financial sense for the private or public sector to offer a pension scheme this generous.

I don't really see why the whole country should be contributing their taxes so local government workers can get a better pension than private sector workers.


Because pay in the public sector is really only offset compared to the private by traditionally good pensions? Because this is going to **** over people who have put decades into their pension and are now seeing large chunks of it evaporate before their eyes. Because public sector workers pay taxes too?

But mostly because we don't measure welfare by the lowest possible margin. Private sector workers didn't starve to death in the first 5 years of their life so how about they quit whining about their pension plans when there are plenty of people worse off?

The scheme 1)isn't nearly as 'gold plated' as is made out to be and 2) has been fought for over years by industrial action and negotiations. The private sector has never been as united in the push for higher pensions. A lack of solidarity and action within the private sector can;t be blamed on the leaching public sector.
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#39
Quitchabitchin.

My old high school we had about 10 teachers between the ages of 65-75. who genuinely enjoyed still teaching at that age
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