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#1
Justice Secretary Ken Clarke has said a householder who knifes a burglar will not have committed a criminal offence under plans to clarify the law on self-defence in England.

He told the BBC people were entitled to use "whatever force necessary" to protect themselves and their homes.

David Cameron recently said the issue should be put "beyond doubt".

Labour said the law was "already clear" and the remarks were a "smokescreen" to hide confusion over sentencing changes.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13957587

Thoughts? Good? Bad?
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#2
Sounds good to me. You should have a right to defend yourself if someone is entering your home and threatening your life as well as your families.

EDIT: Further clarifing, why should you be charged with assault/murder if someone enters your home and attempts to kill you? I'm well aware the article says burglar, but you can't say 100% certainty that the burglar will/will not use agressive force against you.
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Last edited by vicarious46 at Jun 29, 2011,
#3
Wait, you mean they can stab unarmed robbers?
Quote by the_white_bunny
your just a simpleton that cant understand strategy apparently.

Quote by the_white_bunny
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#4
Well its about time i remember it being on the tv we were allowed to use force equal to the intruder but waving a knife at them works too
#5
There could be some sticky situations with this regarding self defence and using appropriate force to defend yourself.
#6
Quote by isabiggles
Wait, you mean they can stab unarmed robbers?

Asked about what this would mean in practice, he said: "If an old lady finds she's got an 18 year old burgling her house and she picks up a kitchen knife and sticks it in him she has not committed a criminal offence and we will make that clear."

"We all know what we mean when we say a person has an absolute right to defend themselves and their home and reasonable force.

"Nobody should prosecute and nobody should ever convict anybody who takes those steps."

I think you have a free ticket to killing anyone in your home now.
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#8
Quote by Kensai
I think you have a free ticket to killing anyone in your home now.

Including your family?
#9
I'm not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, it's good that you can defend yourself if need be and maybe burglars will be more reluctant to break into people's houses now, in fear of being mutilated. On the other hand, this could prompt burglars to carry more harmful weapons, which will end up getting put into use more often if every house they go into has someone swinging a knife at them.
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#10
England will finally have some semblance of a clue about how awesome it is being an American. Happy killing, Brits!
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#11
Quote by Kensai
I think you have a free ticket to killing anyone in your home now.


This is a pretty miserable idea. Any old lady who thinks they could stab a young man is sadly mistaken and I think this is going to end up with robbers bringing weapons themselves and people getting killed because they think they can defend their homes.

Not to mention it's kind of messed up to stab someone who is unarmed unless you're totally physically incapable of defending your home otherwise but let's be honest, simply having a knife won't save you in the slightest. I can assure you from someone I know who was murdered trying to protect his home from a robber that it isn't worth it at all.
Quote by the_white_bunny
your just a simpleton that cant understand strategy apparently.

Quote by the_white_bunny
all hail king of the penis sucking(i said balls. you said dick for some reason?) Isabiggles
#13
A person should be able to defend himself, his family and his home from robbers.
I cannot stand hearing about burglars who get a smaller sentence than the burglary victim who defends himself.
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#14
Quote by son_of_bodom
People aren't allowed to defend their homes in your country? Glad I'm in America



Pfft.

Anyway, I think this is a good thing, I remember reading a news story a couple of years ago about a 60-odd year old man who got sent to jail for attacking a burglar in his own home.
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#17
Quote by Trowzaa

Pfft.

Anyway, I think this is a good thing, I remember reading a news story a couple of years ago about a 60-odd year old man who got sent to jail for attacking a burglar in his own home.

No one cares about the news stories you read. Please keep that in mind. No one.

Ah hell, I thought I was quoting Woffelz. Nevermind.
Quote by Woffelz
A person should be able to defend himself, his family and his home from robbers.
I cannot stand hearing about burglars who get a smaller sentence than the burglary victim who defends himself.

No one cares about the news stories you read. Please keep that in mind. No one.
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Last edited by Jack Off Jill at Jun 29, 2011,
#20
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#21
safeeeee
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#22
Quote by Jack Off Jill
No one cares about the news stories you read. Please keep that in mind. No one.

Ah hell, I thought I was quoting Woffelz. Nevermind.

No one cares about the news stories you read. Please keep that in mind. No one.


I was gonna say that was a bit unnecessary but yeah, if you're quoting Woffelz then it's coo'.
dirtbag ballet by the bins down the alley
as i walk through the chalet of the shadow of death
everything that you've come to expect


#23
Quote by ninnipinni93
The UK becoming more and more like Murica.

Pfft, they wish.

Actually, this is them becoming more and more like a caricature of America, as most states will punish us for harming a burglar if he's not a physical threat to us.
Quote by vintage x metal
I love you =] I can't say I was very fond of you when we first started talking because you trolled the hell out of my threads, but after talking to you here I've grown very attached to you.

Yeah, write to my fanclub about it, honey.
#25
Is this going to be UK-wide or will it just affect England? I think it's fair enough that you shouldn't be convicted for self-defence, but I also think that this is open to a hell of a lot of abuse.
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#26
good. dont want to get stabbed? dont break into someone's house asshole. that seems pretty straightforward.
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#27
Quote by SG_dave
YES!

I'm gonna buy a bowie knife and sit with my front door open at night, when someone walks in I'll stab em and claim self defence.

This is what I mean about abuse.

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Quote by da_
I wonder if you get more out put if you wire a battery to your penis.
#29
I totally didn't invite my ex-boyfriend round to my house and then murder him. He was trying to rob me.


This is clearly not a well thought-out idea.
#30
Quote by NoLaurelTree000
good. dont want to get stabbed? dont break into someone's house without a gun asshole. that seems pretty straightforward.

fixed.

because that's exactly what people will do. guns aren't legal but that doesn't mean people can't get hold of them.
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#31
I've changed my mind. This won't just be open to abuse, this will be a total disaster which shall plunge the country to new depths in which robberies shall become as violent as the gates of Hell themselves (and possibly and ironically more common) and stoned Pit Monkeys shall roam the streets with knives, taking any chance they have to abuse the naivety-fueled Tory-backed excuse for a system.



That's what I think will happen.
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Quote by da_
I wonder if you get more out put if you wire a battery to your penis.
#32
pointless pandering to the Daily Mail crowd to make it seem like they're actually doing anything after all their decent ideas got shot down.

self defence laws already allow the use of reasonable force. Note the word reasonable. Not 'only that which is necessary and nothing more'.
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#34
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
I totally didn't invite my ex-boyfriend round to my house and then murder him. He was trying to rob me.


This is clearly not a well thought-out idea.


There's a boatload of other laws you can scapegoat for that one... You killed him in self defence against his attempted rape, aggravated assault, he was belligerent and it was am accident, etc. This will hold up the same in court as other laws do: after an investigation.

Ontopic, why would I need a knife when I have a gun?
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#35
Quote by Dreadnought
There's a boatload of other laws you can scapegoat for that one... You killed him in self defence against his attempted rape, aggravated assault, he was belligerent and it was am accident, etc. This will hold up the same in court as other laws do: after an investigation.

Ontopic, why would I need a knife when I have a gun?


Who wants one gun when you can have 2 like me.




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#36
Quote by isabiggles
This is a pretty miserable idea. Any old lady who thinks they could stab a young man is sadly mistaken and I think this is going to end up with robbers bringing weapons themselves and people getting killed because they think they can defend their homes.

Not to mention it's kind of messed up to stab someone who is unarmed unless you're totally physically incapable of defending your home otherwise but let's be honest, simply having a knife won't save you in the slightest. I can assure you from someone I know who was murdered trying to protect his home from a robber that it isn't worth it at all.


So the old woman should just succumb to the young mans physical assault? Gives her a hell of a better chance at surviving the ordeal. Robbers weren't bringing weapons to rob homes in England in the first place? It's pretty messed up that someone has infiltrated your home with the intent on taking your belongings as well. A weapon can help someone defend their home even if only by a bit.
#37
Quote by son_of_bodom
So the old woman should just succumb to the young mans physical assault? Gives her a hell of a better chance at surviving the ordeal. Robbers weren't bringing weapons to rob homes in England in the first place? It's pretty messed up that someone has infiltrated your home with the intent on taking your belongings as well. A weapon can help someone defend their home even if only by a bit.


Well she should avoid any form of confrontation in the first place. If she were incapable of defending herself without stabbing the robber then it would be ok to stab said robber because that comes under reasonable defence if she is legitimately in danger. That said, I find it unlikely that any old lady would manage to even defend herself from a young man, even if she had a knife.

They'll be far more likely to. The guy I mentioned who got murdered was stabbed with his own kitchen knife. I hate to say it but had he just stayed away and called the police he would probably still be alive. Not all robbers bring weapons with them. Now that you can be stabbed for breaking in unarmed? You can be sure that everyone will be bringing at least knives, probably guns too.

If you were to get stabbed I assure you that you won't give a damn about your possessions. Confronting a robber is a really terrible idea.
Quote by the_white_bunny
your just a simpleton that cant understand strategy apparently.

Quote by the_white_bunny
all hail king of the penis sucking(i said balls. you said dick for some reason?) Isabiggles
#38
I think it should be legal everywhere
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