#1
The problem

I am trying to learn how to improvise but I am a bit puzzled with the way people teach and learn this subject. Most people immediately pursue finger exercises and a bunch of techniques when they just learn the scales, but I can play melodies of known songs without using harp harmonics, finger tapping, shredding, pull offs, bends, hammer-ons, etc. And although I play these known melodies without the special effects, the melody sounds much better than any thing I try to improvise. Comparing the known melodies that I play without special effects vs my improvisation, also without special techniques since I don't know any, I am observing a huge difference. The known melodies played without special effects sounds way more pleasant than my improvisation. From this, I have deduced that there is a lesson about creating melodies that should be learnt before jumping into complicated techniques.

Fortunately, I just read of an example of wrong and right melody that fascinates me. The writer compared playing the descending major scale to the Christmas song, Joy to the world. Both, this melodious song and that monotonous descending scale use the same notes, starting from the higher root and descending sequentially to the lower root, yet one sounds like music and the other sounds like a lawnmower.


Questions


When I first started trying to learn music, I consulted with music instructors or people who play the guitar and I am observing they have a certain way providing abstract advise like "you can't just play any notes" or "you have to know what to listen for" or "you have to say something in your melody" or "you have to make a statement" but none of these whizzes ever got around to explaining what are the right notes, what to listen for, how to say something or how to make a statement. Then I bumped into measurements like keys, scales,modes, chord construction, pitch, ascending and descending, arcs, etc., This tells me that the instructors I am exposed to has a need to omit critical information. Although I know more music theory, I know there is information I am missing.

Instead of providing indirect advise, can someone compare some examples of wrong and right melodies in a similar manner as the writer who compared the descending major scale to the melody of Joy to the world, but analyze the difference in order to help the brother recognize a good melody(played without slides, hammer-ons, harmonics) from a bad one?
Last edited by Folgers at Jul 15, 2011,
#2
Use your ear, always. After an x amount of time of playing in a genre you begin to speak the language. At that point, you should be able to come up with "standard-sounding" lines in your head. Expand upon that and create a voice that's somewhat unique to you; a way of phrasing things. This can take from a few years to a lifetime. The key is to know your instrument inside and out (not necessarily the notes, though it's recommended; at the very least the intervals). so that you can play any intervallic movements and melodies on your instrument that you come up with. I once heard a quote about improvisation that I like a lot: "When there is no delay between conception and execution, you're there."
#3
I think the most important aspect (which perhaps you are missing) is rhythm. Personally I would say rhythm is just above melody in importance in interesting music. So many songs utilize some kind of rhythmic vamp as a starting point followed by a melodic structure. Rhythm rhythm rhythm
#4
I was wondering if rhythm is the difference because rhythm seemed to be the difference between the descending major scale and the song joy to the world. My observation is that the notes of the descending major scale sounds "scaley" because each note is played with the same time value. With joy to the world the time value of each or at least some of the notes are different.

Since the rhythm of known melodies worked to create interesting melodies, I tried to use the same rhythm of the melodies I know, but on a different series of notes. And of course it sounds like crap. What prevents the rhythms of the songs I know to sound like crap when I use them on different notes?

I know a couple of country rhythms, reggae, a couple of what seem like some kind of an off beat alternative thing I just picked up from the music around me. I usually edit those rhythms here and there to create some emphasis at high energy points in the song I am accompanying. This seem to work fine with chord progressions but when I use these rhythms to attempt a melody, I would prefer to shoot myself instead of listening to the sounds that are produced. If the rhythms I know or can improvise are not the rhythms used to make melody, which rhythms do I need to know that will make melody?

Thanks
Last edited by Folgers at Jul 1, 2011,
#5
Your question is very confusing. You used the same rhythm, but yet different notes on the song? You mean you changed key? For example on the low E standard tuning:

0-2-3-5-7-8-10-12
(root, 2 semitones, 1 semitone, 2, 2, 1, 2, 2)

Play that on guitar. You just played the e minor scale. Bump this "series of notes" up 2 frets or semitones as they are more technically called, but keep the distance of the notes EXACTLY the same:

2-4-5-7-9-10-12-14
(root, 2 semitones, 1 semitone, 2, 2, 1, 2, 2)

This is what you should have come up with. If you played this, you now played an F# minor scale. Same scale, and they should sound similar to one another, only one as a higher pitch, no? This also changes the feeling of the scale/song, but changing the key of a song shouldn't make the song not sound even close to what the original sounded like. It sounding like but, makes me think you aren't changing the key of the song properly, and you are changing the song completely.
#6
My primary source of theory is http://www.howmusicworks.org/. I don't have a problem changing keys or staying in a key or understanding the theory of keys,scales,modes, exotic scales, chord construction i.e 1 3 5=major,1 b3 5=minor, 1 b3 b5=dim, 1 3 #5=aug.

My problem is about not being able to use these tools to create melody. So when I say I use the rhythm of known melodies on different notes, I mean I use the same rhythm on different notes in the same key.

I do this because I have read some guitar talk which says that melody should be moved to different notes to create different sounding melodies. I assume this means that if the phrase of a melody consists of a 5 note change and a rhythm on a selection of notes, that I can use 5 changes and rhythm but on a different selection of notes in the same key.

In other words, from that "joy to the world" christmas song I mentioned earlier, if the first phrase of that song is 8 descending note changes on the major scale starting from the root, I assume that I can use 8 note changes and the rhythm of the song but ascending from the root instead of descending. Then I assume that I can also start the 8 note change and the rhythm from say the 5th. I usually try this type of maneuvering on the basis of advise from articles on the web. When I say I "assume" I mean I am assuming that I am interpreting this advise correctly, but since my attempts sounds like crap, I figure I should consult with someone for clarity.

When I do what I do, regardless of what advise I use, all I hear is ping ping ping ping ping ping. Then there is the advise of playing what I hear in my head. Well I hear things in my head, but I can't find them on the guitar .

One crazy mistake I made was to assume that I have to strum on notes the way strumming is done on chords. However, maintaining a rhythm for a while on a chord, when strumming along a chord progression to accompany a song, seems like a legal move when strumming chord progressions, but this can't work when trying to create a melody. And after learning of this difference, I distribute my rhythm to different notes and I hear that something, melody I hope, is trying to happen. This is another reason why I am asking for a comparison of a poor vs a good melody to help me identify the difference.

In this lesson, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMrMi65AXeI&feature=related, the instructor is comparing a boring melody to a better melody, but he is selling slides, bends, and string bends. My problem is that I can play melodies without these techniques. This is why I am am trying to understanding melody without these effects.

This http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfXuV75JYp8&feature=related, is a video lesson I can easily relate to because at about 8:48 minutes into the lesson, the instructor is building one phrase independently of the next and then mixing the phrases together and he isn't using slides,bends,etc. I think if I have more lessons at this level, I might come around.

And so the question remains the same, without slides and bends, how do I create a melody.
Last edited by Folgers at Jul 2, 2011,
#7
it sounds like you need experience generally and a better understanding of how music functions. i wonder if maybe you need to start from the beginning with your foundational theory knowledge and apply what you are learning as you learn it. reading something in a book and actually doing it are 2 totally different things. i'm wondering how much application of knowledge you've had, some good books like music theory for idiots (no implications, i keep a copy nearby at all times) have exercises that IF YOU DO THEM are quite helpful in understanding the texts.

a good melody is catchy and hummable and sticks in your head, after you learn everything you can i think that's the most important thing. i'm not sure if you're still using your instructors but if you are you need to stop them and go back to where you stopped catching on and pick it up from there. you need to make sure you really understand the basics like how chords work, where they want to move to and why they do that.
Last edited by z4twenny at Jul 2, 2011,
#8
It seems as though it is as equally useless to ask a musician my questions as it is to ask a non-musician the same questions. Each musician refers me to the next without answering the question!Why?

I found the following excerpt from http://www.ultraguitarmethod.com/:

"In today’s professional musical environment, one’s mere knowledge of guitar chords, alone, is not enough. One’s mere knowledge of guitar scales, alone, is not enough. While guitar tabs are a valuable tool, one’s continuous pursuit of guitar tabs, guitar tabs and more guitar tabs, is simply not enough to truly advance one’s overall knowledge of music theory.

The same principles apply to most instructional guitar videos on the market today. Most instructional guitar videos claim that one can learn guitar very quickly. Most, however, simply demonstrate a few more guitar chords, more guitar scales, a little music theory, and the student is, once again, left up-in-the-air. This, in our opinion, is not the way for one to truly learn how to play the guitar.

Professional private guitar lessons offer a partial solution to these problems. However, guitar lessons are only as good as those qualified to teach them. Good guitar instructors are hard to find. Great guitar lessons are those that enlighten the student with regard to music theory and its application to the guitar. Once again, it’s not enough to merely know a few guitar chords and a few guitar scales. Perhaps this is why so many guitar players are forced to rely on guitar tabs and guitar videos.


When one begins to understand the actual function of guitar chords and guitar scales within a key signature, the inversions of guitar chords, extended guitar chords, altered guitar chords, guitar scale substitution principles, guitar chord substitution principles, and more, then this is the beginning of an authentic education."

The aforementioned isn't the first time this concern is expressed. The blue text seem to acknowledge the problem beginners experience and the green text seem to be a suggestion of the solution, except that this suggested solution seems to be to learn more scales and chords without focusing on how to use to use those scales and chord tones.

At about 3:18min into this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dalL5FpWR8&feature=related, the chap is demonstrating that any selection of notes can create a melody but that it wouldn't be an interesting melody. However he didn't explain how to create an interesting melody even though this is a documentary of how music, melody and rhythm works. I am observing this deflection whether I am consulting live instructors, books, forums or videos.

The advise I am receiving when I ask this question is to use more books, but these books only explain the theory I already know and provide examples of melodies but it seems as though none of these sources intend to explain the difference between a poor and better melody.

Since everyone knows that beginners have problems with creating melodies, why is it that advanced players cannot compare a wrong and right melody to demonstrate the difference?
Last edited by Folgers at Jul 7, 2011,
#9
Folgers: looking at your motley of colored text makes me want to puke, but it does organize your thoughts very well.

*Ahem*

Well, good and bad (better and worse) melodies are completely subjective, so what's good to one is nails-on-a-chalk-board to another. Why not pick out a few melodies you like and a few you felt missed the mark and compare them yourself? This is the best way.

Interest in tonal music comes from the principle of tension and release. This is a good lesson for everything in life as well, but that's a different story. You build tension by moving away from the tonal center of a piece and resolve it by moving back. Too much stability makes you sound boring. Too much tension can grate on a listener and threaten your tonality if not properly utilized.

OK, so "Another Brick in the Wall (Part II)." A very simple but catchy melody. "We don't need no education...we don't need no thought control!" The whole verse is played over a static Dm chord (the tonic of the piece.) The main melody (with the lyrics I just wrote) goes D - E - F - E | D - E - F. It's very simple and repetitive, which is part of what makes it so catchy and memorable. It's made up of strong, stepwise movement over diatonic tones. Notice how it moves between the stable D and F (part of the tonic triad) with the E (a tension.) The first phrase ends on a tension, craving a resolution in the second phrase, which we get when we resolve to the F. The half-step to a triad note (from E to F) is the strongest movement you can really have, so the resolution is readily apparent.

Hope that sheds a little light on your problem or at least gets you started. But, seriously, find the music (or figure it out) to your favorite melodies v. ones you don't like. Even if you don't like them, analyze the most memorable melodies of all-time to figure out why they resonate so well throughout the ages. Think "Ode to Joy" and "The Blue Danube Waltz". Don't get down about it, though, this sort of stuff is why many aspiring musicians fail: it's not easy! If you have the initiative, you'll get it.
Nothing that is worthwhile in life will ever come easy.
#10
Quote by Folgers
why is it that advanced players cannot compare a wrong and right melody to demonstrate the difference?


A Melody also referd to as tune, voice, or line, is a linear succession of musical tones which is perceived as a single entity.

People don't show you a good/bad example because there really isn't a bad one... a melody is what it is. As far as defining a good melody, if your humming it after you hear it or it gets stuck in your head for weeks... it's probably a pretty damn good melody.

Here is one of my favorite examples of melody though... it's Stevie Wonder and James Jamerson "the bassist". While Steive is singing a melody, James Jamerson is also playing a completly diffrent melody... which is refered to as a conter-melody/counter-point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bAliqnJMGI

Break it down as simple as you need to, then work your way up to complex melodies. Remember Twinkle Twinkle little star, Mary had a little lamb, London Bridge is falling down... are all nothing more than simple melodies.

Quote by Folgers
how to use to use those scales and chord tones.

Here is a good place to start, I like Carol Kayes way of thinking in terms of this. She talks about playing chromatics "chordal tones", then using scales as traveling notes to get from one chord to another. This is how I tend to use scales as well, its not the only way to do it. But it's a very simple way of learning and utilizing both scales and chord tones at the same time. Not to mention when the key changes if your playing chordal tones its much eaiser to adjust on the fly, atleast in my opinion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9idtdWAAEA

Quote by Folgers
What prevents the rhythms of the songs I know to sound like crap when I use them on different notes?


Note placement, watch this and do the exsercise. This will give you a firm grasp on rhythm. Once you can identify and play any subdivision by feel, you should have no issues applying any of your techniques.

Remember, playin before, on or after a beat will give it a feel. The exact same way a certin note will change the feel. So by changing one or the other you can completly change the feel of a song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Sw_trDFJw8&feature=channel_video_title

Quote by Folgers
And so the question remains the same, without slides and bends, how do I create a melody.


Last but not least, play what you sing... when you hear a groove I bet you can hum a pretty cool little melody to your self. The trick is learning to play, exactly what it is you hear in your head
Quote by MetlHed94



Well played, sir, well played.
Last edited by TheMooseKnuckle at Jul 7, 2011,
#12
Rhythm is the groove or feel of the music, and melody is the notes and keys in the song. (more or less) A big thing is just feel the song and know how it goes, then expand from there. The imagination is unlimited so there is absolutely no way of running of out things to do or notes to hit. Whether is from a bend here or a slide there. As long as you can tell where the song is going and "feel" what may or may not come next in the sequence or riffs and patterns. And for me a big thing is, if i like it...keep it :P and sorry if i repeated something thats already been said, i kinda just skimmed through this thread.
#13
The advise I received thus far seems to be bringing home some clarity but not quite there as yet!

The positive is that I tried humming a melody while listening to the Stevie Wonder song. I hear melodies in my head but never tried humming them aloud because I thought that what I hear in my head is just a wish with no real value. After trying humming aloud, I am fascinated by how great my hummed improvised melody sounds. I want my playing to sound like my hum. I am shocked by the fact that what I wish I could play on the instrument is actually in my head. I am so pleased with this discovery I am experiencing goose bumps and some happy cramps in my stomach. I am definitely going to memorize what I hum and then try finding those notes on the guitar to see what happens.

I don't quite get this this tension/resolution concept. I do hear how the 7 resolves up to the 8/1 and the 2 resolves down to the 1 when playing say the major scale. I also hear how the G chord wants to resolve to the C chord or the Dm wants to resolve back to the C when playing in the key of C. However, I don't seem to hear this resolution occurring elsewhere. Consequently, I don't know which note to select if I were to attempt to create tension or which note to select to create resolution. It seems as though ascending from the root through to about the 5 will create tension and and from the 5 up to the 8/1 will create resolution and vice versa when descending. From this, I take it for granted that I will always create tension/resolution by default when ascending or descending, but apparently more control needs to be exercised i.e it seems as though I have to know when to stop ascending for the purpose of descending and vice versa. I tried doing some reading on this but no clarity yet. What am I missing on this topic?


Note placement, watch this and do the exsercise. This will give you a firm grasp on rhythm. Once you can identify and play any subdivision by feel, you should have no issues applying any of your techniques.

Remember, playin before, on or after a beat will give it a feel. The exact same way a certin note will change the feel. So by changing one or the other you can completly change the feel of a song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Sw_...nel_video_title


I don't quite understand how note placement prevents the rhythms of the songs I know to sound like crap when I use them on different notes. I don't think I understand what is note placement. The video lesson seems to be about on and off beat rhythm. I am using the original rhythm of the song but on different notes. I don't consciously try to figure which component of the original rhythm of the song is on or off beat, but I do play the rhythm of the song. Since I don't understand tension/resolution, I am wondering if I am playing the wrong notes but the right rhythm. Please clarify!

I am definitely going to hum a melody and then try finding the notes on the guitar, but in the mean time I would also like to have your clarification of the aforementioned.
Last edited by Folgers at Jul 9, 2011,
#14
I'll try to help in a simple and basic way, melody is usually a combination of steps and skips. Break down melodies that way and see what you come up with.

What happens when the note was a step?
What effect did it have as a skip?
How far did that interval skip?
What chord was playing at the time?
What was the function if any of the skip, in relationship to the key and chord?

Start there, and you'll start to see with new eyes.

Best,

Sean
#15
Quote by Zanon
I think the most important aspect (which perhaps you are missing) is rhythm. Personally I would say rhythm is just above melody in importance in interesting music. So many songs utilize some kind of rhythmic vamp as a starting point followed by a melodic structure. Rhythm rhythm rhythm



This.

Primitive music came from banging shit, rhythm is embedded deep down inside us. If music was a food, rhythm is the texture and substance of the food, melody is the flavour and look of the food, structure is the dimesions of it.

You wouldnt want to eat a rock hard steak. But if your crispy roast potatoes didnt have some herbs on them you'd still have them for that crispy goodness.
Always waiting for that bit of inspiration.
#16
Quote by Folgers
I am definitely going to hum a melody and then try finding the notes on the guitar, but in the mean time I would also like to have your clarification of the aforementioned.


Kudos man, gald to hear humming helped... that was one of the best peices of advise I ever heard "play what you sing, and avoid singing what you play". When I first head that, it helped me out quite a bit aswell.


As for the note placement... each rhythm evokes a certin feeling in the listener we tend to call this the pulse or groove. There is no such thing as a "wrong" note, but by changing either the notes or the rhythm you can change the feeling of a tune.

For example I were to have a "rock-steady" rhythm, "a slower form of Ska, created so dancers wouldnt get to hot in the intense heat"... they tend to play back on the beat which gives it a really easy going laid back feel. If I recall corrrectly I think Anthony mentions that in that video as well?

So say you have that rock-steady rhythm and its identical... but you go from playing an accending major scale to a desending diminished run. The rhythm may be the same but it will simply feel diffrent to the listener. In the exact same way that playing the exact same notes, but to a diffrent rhythm will change the feel. So where you play a note "note placement" is just if not more important than the actual note being played.


As for tension/resolution, your basically adding peaks and valleys to your playing. BB King explains it great. In your playing have a conversation... the first part should be asking a question, the second should answer that question. By doing this you create tension and then you resolve it by answering the said question

Here is a clip of BB King playing The Thrill is Gone... close your eyes and listen. He and Lucile "his guitar" are clearly having a conversation. When Lucy is playing, he's listening... then he sings to answer her. When he's singing, Lucy is quiet and listening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fk2prKnYnI

Here is Miles Davis, from 0:20 - 0:25 he is asking a question "building tension", he lets 5 seconds go by without anything, so you can prosses the question and to help build more susspence. Then at 0:30 he comes back in with a short and quick responce for 2 seconds to give an answer. An even better example is at 3:00 when anyone else would play a solo, he stops playing completly for half a minuet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoPL7BExSQU

Both BB King and Miles Davis are two of the best examples of phrasing and dynamics you will ever hear.
Quote by MetlHed94



Well played, sir, well played.
#17
So then one major problem I have is that I don't know how to create tension/question and resolution/answer in a phrases!

I also don't seem to be able to listen to a song and identify which phrase is question and which is the answer. Maybe with some careful listening and a few explanations I may hear/understand it.

soviet_ska in his post, identified a tension and resolution phrase in "another brick in the wall". He also seem to be explaining how tension and resolution was created in their respective phrases. While I do some more listening and humming, can I also have a few more examples and an accompanying explanation of tension and resolution phrases?

Also, is one question and one answer as pairs of phrases, the only arrangement, or can we have one question and two subsequent phrases that answers/resolves the question? If there are other arrangements, a few examples please!
Last edited by Folgers at Jul 9, 2011,
#18
Quote by Folgers

soviet_ska in his post, identified a tension and resolution phrase in "another brick in the wall". He also seem to be explaining how tension and resolution was created in their respective phrases. While I do some more listening and humming, can I also have a few more examples and an accompanying explanation of tension and resolution phrases?


How about another real simple one? "The Immigrant Song" by Led Zeppelin. The part where Robert Plant does the 'war cry.' You know: ahhhh-AHHHHHHHHHHH-ah!

During this part the guitar is playing a simple riff in F# (just the root and octave; I think the song turns out minor, but it remains ambiguous at this point.) So, F# as the root note here. The cry goes something like: slide up to C# - C - C#. The longest part (that lasts for a bar) is the C note. Playing over F#, the C# is the perfect 5th, completely stable. The C is a diminshed 5th of F#, about as dissonant as you can get. This creates a great deal of tension, which gets resolved when the melody shifts back to the C#. Notice how the resolution is a chord tone reached from a half-step away, just like "Another Brick in the Wall (Part II);" It's a very strong movement and wraps up the tension into a nice, neat little resolved package.

Another example? Behold! Tension and release in a one-note melody (that I just made up on the spot!) Key: Eb major.


Eb       |(Eb)      |(Eb)      |(Eb)      |
Eb - - - | Fm - - - | Bb - - - | Eb - - - |


The Eb is held throughout this four-measure progression. The Harmony is listed underneath, moving in a simple I - ii - V pattern. The Eb acts as perfect consonace (unison/octave) over the Eb chord. When the harmony changes, it becomes a mild dissonance (minor 7th) with the Fm. The combination implies a F#m7 chord, which our ears are used to, but still provides some tension as the Eb conflicts with the F, which are close together. Then it gets more dissonant over the Bb, where the Eb acts as the perfect 4th. In this case, the Eb conflicts with both the D and the F, as both are only a step away from the Eb in the melody. The melody is resolved nicely as the Eb chord returns.

What will really help you is understand what intervals create dissonance and which ones create consonance. Species counterpoint is a good place to start as you begin with one note vs. another, leaving out some of the complications of more advanced harmony. Here's a simple list:

Perfect consonance: 1, perfect 5th, octave
Imperfect consonance: 3rds, 6ths
Dissonances: 2nds, 7ths, perfect 4th, tritone

There are more detailed lists available that break dissonances into perfect/imperfect dissonances as well, but it's more important that you experiment and listen to them yourself. You appear to be doing this already, so keep it up!
Nothing that is worthwhile in life will ever come easy.
#19
soviet_ska,

Using that one note melody against the chord progression is a subtle, necessary and effective example that seems to be making the tension/resolution matter a little clearer.

When the harmony changes, it becomes a mild dissonance (minor 7th) with the Fm. The combination implies a F#m7 chord


For clarification, is that F#m7 or Fm7.

Since the rhythm of known melodies worked to create interesting melodies, I tried to use the same rhythm of the melodies I know, but on a different series of notes. And of course it sounds like crap. What prevents the rhythms of the songs I know to sound like crap when I use them on different notes?


Does tension/resolution answer this question which had asked earlier?
Last edited by Folgers at Jul 16, 2011,
#20
Quote by Folgers
For clarification, is that F#m7 or Fm7.


Oops! It's Fm7. I'll fix that in the original.
Nothing that is worthwhile in life will ever come easy.
#21
OK, so "Another Brick in the Wall (Part II)." A very simple but catchy melody. "We don't need no education...we don't need no thought control!" The whole verse is played over a static Dm chord (the tonic of the piece.) The main melody (with the lyrics I just wrote) goes D - E - F - E | D - E - F.


I am using "D-E-F-G-A-Bb-C-D", what I think is the D natural minor scale to figure the notes of the two phrases from the "Another Brick in the Wall" song to find the following:

We don't need no ed-u-ca-tion...we don't need no thought con-trol
D-----E------F----E---D--E-F---E.......D----E------F----E-----D-------E----F


Now I am just using the same lyrics and rhythm of the same phrase of the same song using different notes from the same minor scale to present:

We don't need no ed-u-ca-tion...we don't need no thought con-trol
D-----F------G----A---G--F-G---F.......G----F------G----F-----A-------G----E


For the purpose of asking this question:

Can you do that tension/resolution analysis on both the song and my version of the song so that I can better understand what I am doing vs what the original song is doing? And if the notes I figured as the original song isn't correct, then can you please make the corrections then to do the analysis for my understanding?

Thanks
Last edited by Folgers at Jul 25, 2011,
#22
The perfect answer to every question you have is on the first page, the one about dissonance in the led zep song.

For your question about tension/resolution analysis -
Forget about the scale relation to the chords/melody think of them as intervals instead (from chord to vocal melody) that is the melody creation right there. You know a lot of scales share notes so you could pick any number of modes to create a melody, but its the way they relate to a chord that makes the melody interesting - that consonance or dissonance that was described on the first page.
Always waiting for that bit of inspiration.
Last edited by W4T3V3R at Jul 22, 2011,
#23
Is it possible that I can land on a tension note and if I keep the rhythm on that note it resolves eventually or am I hearing this because I want to hear resolution so I am making this up in my mind to comfort myself?

Is it possible that when one note creates tension at the end of a phrase, that same note can bring resolution to the end of another phrase, not because of the note itself but because of the effect of the preceding note or notes? Or am I also making this up in my mind?


Dissonances: 2nds, 7ths, perfect 4th, tritone


It seems that while these notes are dissonant, they sound more dissonant or less dissonant depending on the preceding note. Am I making this up?


Thanks
Last edited by Folgers at Jul 26, 2011,
#24
I find that the more time I spend on these forums the closer I am moving towards recognizing the problem I have. My goal is to create one melody that is different from the other.So yes, music is subjective, but I think I have to begin to learn how to create music before I begin worrying about whether the neighbor likes my melody or not. Advise that says there is no right or wrong melody doesn't help me to understand how to create one melody that will sound significantly different from the other.

Similarly, I am thinking that if tension/resolution creates music, and if the goal is to create different melodies, then it must be that I have to do something different with the tension and resolution notes to develop this different melody I seek. I am thinking that knowing the words tension/resolution without knowing how to use it differently, isn't enough. If this is true, then my updated question has to be: what is it that has to be done differently with tension/resolution to cause my own melody to sound different from the next?
#26
Quote by Folgers
If this is true, then my updated question has to be: what is it that has to be done differently with tension/resolution to cause my own melody to sound different from the next?



All you have to do is change a couple of notes and/or rhythmic structure. Take the intro riff from Crazy Train-

http://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/o/ozzy_osbourne/crazy_train_ver2_tab.htm

Now play it backwards. New melody, same exact notes, just a different progression and structure.

Even simpler- Take E F# and G# on your low E string and just mess around with those three notes.

Simply- stop overthinking and start noodling.
What do you guys listen to when playing video games?
Quote by DemonicSamurai

Quote by T3hdude

Men fapping.


Sorry, didn't realize I was that loud.

I'll be leaving your closet now.
#27
This is what I do when I mess around to the rhythm of "another brick in the wall" on what I think is the D natural minor scale "D-E-F-G-A-Bb-C-D".

We don't need no ed-u-ca-tion...we don't need no thought con-trol
D-----F------G----A---G--F-G---F.......G----F------G----F-----A-------G----E



Try it, tell me what you think.

Here is another one.

We don't need no ed-u-ca-tion...we don't need no thought con-trol
F-----G------A----G- Bb-C-D---C.......D----F------G----F-----D-------C----C


and here is the original notes played backwards

We don't need no ed-u-ca-tion...we don't need no thought con-trol
E-----F------E----D---E--F-E---D.......F----E------D----E-----F-------E----D


Different notes, but all three sound the same way to me, please let me know how it sound from your end?

Can someone also mess around with the same scale and same rhythm but use different notes, and post it so I can try it?

Thanks
#28
Don't try to make a variation on another melody, just make a new one :P
What do you guys listen to when playing video games?
Quote by DemonicSamurai

Quote by T3hdude

Men fapping.


Sorry, didn't realize I was that loud.

I'll be leaving your closet now.