#1
Hey all.

I wonder how I could write shred licks that are fast, mostly I can write just tons of melodic leads, but once I try to do a speed lick to draw some attention it just fails awfully.
I can play some of the other shred licks I have learnt, but writing them is 20 times as hard.
#3
Learn more shred licks. Seriously, the more you learn something, the easier you'll find it to write in that style.
#4
Quote by liampje
Hey all.

I wonder how I could write shred licks that are fast, mostly I can write just tons of melodic leads, but once I try to do a speed lick to draw some attention it just fails awfully.
I can play some of the other shred licks I have learnt, but writing them is 20 times as hard.


Recipe for writing shred Licks

1. Use a Pencil or Paper. You could also type them on a Document. Perhaps you own Guitar Pro, or Tux Guitar or Power Tab. You could do it that way.
2. Using your knowledge about theory, melody and harmony and how notes function within chords, use your understanding of harmony and strong familiarity within a pitch collection to assemble your ideas, and follow notes that highlight the ideas that you wish to bring to the writing process.
3. Do this many times depending upon number of repeats, number of places that you wish to do this etc.

Sean
#5
Quote by Sean0913
Recipe for writing shred Licks

1. Use a Pencil or Paper. You could also type them on a Document. Perhaps you own Guitar Pro, or Tux Guitar or Power Tab. You could do it that way.
2. Using your knowledge about theory, melody and harmony and how notes function within chords, use your understanding of harmony and strong familiarity within a pitch collection to assemble your ideas, and follow notes that highlight the ideas that you wish to bring to the writing process.
3. Do this many times depending upon number of repeats, number of places that you wish to do this etc.

Sean

Now I can tell my problem.
You gave me like the ingredients.
I need a way how to make it into one big pot of soup or something.
#6
OH YOU NEED THE RECIPE! No Problem!

Recipe:

In a big glass bowl - Apply your knowledge of theory - If you need more, continue seeking knowledge until you have enough. Popular places to look (your results may vary) are YouTube and the Internet

In a second glass bowl - Apply your knowledge of harmony - If you need more, continue seeking knowledge until you have enough. Popular places to look (your results may vary) are YouTube and the Internet

In a 3 speed Mixer - Apply your knowledge of melody - If you need more, continue seeking knowledge until you have enough. Popular places to look (your results may vary) are YouTube and the Internet

On a chopping board using a sharp cooks knife - Learn solos that speak to you - - If you need more, continue seeking knowledge until you have enough. Popular places to look (your results may vary) are YouTube and the Internet

Estimated cooking time: 1 to 3 years.

Warning, do not undercook. Use your ears. Rushing it or leaving out the above ingredients may ruin the recipe.

If being a self trained guitar shredder chef is meeting with negative results, there are chef schools and even private chefs who can help you on a one on one basis, for a fee. But until you learn to break an egg without getting shells in the mix, or until you can tell the difference between 1 tablespoon of salt and one cup of salt, this dish may be a bit too advanced for you, and so they will work to strengthen your core skills as to be able to create such masterpieces that will not poison people, or get you sued, or kill your customers.

Best,

Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at Jun 30, 2011,
#7
writing music to be performed at 200 bpm is the exact same as writing music to be performed at 60. the only difference is the execution.

if you can't write something coherent at a slow speed, you won't be able to do it at a fast speed. and vice versa.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#8
Quote by AeolianWolf
writing music to be performed at 200 bpm is the exact same as writing music to be performed at 60. the only difference is the execution.

if you can't write something coherent at a slow speed, you won't be able to do it at a fast speed. and vice versa.
I still write most of my songs from 80 to 150 bpm.
Thats just my style.
I want to have these awesome shredder embelishments added in the right place to give the lead/melody an extra top of hot chocolate sauce meltiness stuff things.
#9
Oh track team, where can the analogie not be applied?
We had a saying, on how to run the 400 meter sprint.

The first 100 is push. I.e. make yourself learn the style.
The second 100 is pace. I.e. keep writing in the style, and analyze.
The third 100 is pray. I.e. hope you get what you want.
The fourth 100 is puke. I.e. you've given it your all. Good job.

Terrible analogy.

Listen. analyze. Learn. Apply.
Understand nothing, in order to learn everything.

Quote by liampje
I can write a coherent tune ... But 3/4? I play rock, not polka.
#10
Learn more fast licks from solos you like. See what's going on and theoretically, how it works. Then make it your own and apply.
by the time you read this you will be wasting your time because it doesnt say anything
#11
Listen to shred and analyze it. It can help to check tabs in Guitar Pro and slow them down and just listen to them. I don't think playing slowly is the same as playing fast. A shred lick played at 60 bpm is not very pleasant for your ears and vice versa for slow licks. For fast licks, use longer patterns.
E:-6
B:-0
G:-5
D:-6
A:-0
E:-3
#12
Quote by liampje
I still write most of my songs from 80 to 150 bpm.
Thats just my style.
I want to have these awesome shredder embelishments added in the right place to give the lead/melody an extra top of hot chocolate sauce meltiness stuff things.


then do it. if you can't, there's either a flaw in your technique, your ears, or your knowledge -- or two or perhaps all three. i'm making neither assumptions nor judgments; it's up to you to figure out where the problem is and remedy it.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#13
dude, just throw in some really fast licks. duh. u essentially just asked "how do i put a few fast licks in a song." the answer is put a few fast licks in a song.

let's say you've got an ascending major scale, from 1 to 8, each note is an 8th note, and your tempo is pretty high. try adding in some chromatic 16th notes between everything. now get a feel for when those sound good and when they don't. now try to apply the same rhythmic principle to the scale without chromatics. now try to apply the same principle to a solo.

i can't help but feel like you know the answers to most of the questions you ask on this site...unless its about theory. btw somebody here suggested walter piston's book "harmony" to me, i started reading and its really nice, i think you should try it out seeing as we all agree you're foundation is screwed up, this isn't related to this thread cuz this thread has nothing to do with theory but i just thought i'd letcha know cuz it could really help you, you can read the whole thing online free here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2187678/Walter-Piston-Harmony
#15
Quote by TMVATDI
dude, just throw in some really fast licks. duh. u essentially just asked "how do i put a few fast licks in a song." the answer is put a few fast licks in a song.

let's say you've got an ascending major scale, from 1 to 8, each note is an 8th note, and your tempo is pretty high. try adding in some chromatic 16th notes between everything. now get a feel for when those sound good and when they don't. now try to apply the same rhythmic principle to the scale without chromatics. now try to apply the same principle to a solo.

i can't help but feel like you know the answers to most of the questions you ask on this site...unless its about theory. btw somebody here suggested walter piston's book "harmony" to me, i started reading and its really nice, i think you should try it out seeing as we all agree you're foundation is screwed up, this isn't related to this thread cuz this thread has nothing to do with theory but i just thought i'd letcha know cuz it could really help you, you can read the whole thing online free here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2187678/Walter-Piston-Harmony


I think you fail at understanding a text.
The title says I want to write my own shred licks.
Then if you see that I want to put fast licks in a song, you should think that my problem is: writing shred licks.
And the reason I want to write them is to put them in my songs
#16
Quote by Sean0913
OH YOU NEED THE RECIPE! No Problem!

Recipe:

In a big glass bowl - Apply your knowledge of theory - If you need more, continue seeking knowledge until you have enough. Popular places to look (your results may vary) are YouTube and the Internet

In a second glass bowl - Apply your knowledge of harmony - If you need more, continue seeking knowledge until you have enough. Popular places to look (your results may vary) are YouTube and the Internet

In a 3 speed Mixer - Apply your knowledge of melody - If you need more, continue seeking knowledge until you have enough. Popular places to look (your results may vary) are YouTube and the Internet

On a chopping board using a sharp cooks knife - Learn solos that speak to you - - If you need more, continue seeking knowledge until you have enough. Popular places to look (your results may vary) are YouTube and the Internet

Estimated cooking time: 1 to 3 years.

Warning, do not undercook. Use your ears. Rushing it or leaving out the above ingredients may ruin the recipe.

If being a self trained guitar shredder chef is meeting with negative results, there are chef schools and even private chefs who can help you on a one on one basis, for a fee. But until you learn to break an egg without getting shells in the mix, or until you can tell the difference between 1 tablespoon of salt and one cup of salt, this dish may be a bit too advanced for you, and so they will work to strengthen your core skills as to be able to create such masterpieces that will not poison people, or get you sued, or kill your customers.

Best,

Sean


Sean,

I don't think he heard you. Perhaps you should SPEAK UP! Or maybe your analogy was just too complicated . Perhaps I can translate!

Speed has nothing to do with your ability to WRITE. Learning to write is a long term endeavor that takes patience, study, and practice. Learning to play fast is ALSO a long term endeavor that takes patience, study, and practice. The two are independent skills that can be used together.

Do you want to learn to write music? Then practice writing music regardless of the tempo.

Do you want to learn to play fast? Then practice with a metronome and your favorite licks (or scales, whatever you like) and increase the tempo each time you get to a point where you can play it faster.

Once you can play at the speed you want, you'll be able to play the licks you write at that speed. Seems pretty simple to understand to me. Probably takes a lot of...

...wait for it...

...patience...study...and practice...
#17
Quote by AeolianWolf
writing music to be performed at 200 bpm is the exact same as writing music to be performed at 60. the only difference is the execution.

if you can't write something coherent at a slow speed, you won't be able to do it at a fast speed. and vice versa.


that and many other good posts in this thread have the answers you seek. your problem is you don't listen. your consistent failure is in the fact that you think you have the basics mastered, but your only concern seems to be building a skyscraper, whether you have the foundation or not.

there's no separate technique for driving quicker than there is for driving slower. a good driving technique can handle both. the same is true with music. writing something at a fast speed is no different than writing something at a slow speed. there is NO difference except in the execution. as far as composition is concerned, they are one and the same. if you start tossing around unnecessary labels that incapacitate your ability to perceive the big picture, you're only going to trip all over yourself.

i'm really beginning to think you're just one big troll. i'm also starting to hope so, too.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
Last edited by AeolianWolf at Jul 1, 2011,
#19
Quote by liampje
I still write most of my songs from 80 to 150 bpm.
Thats just my style.

Ok... now at that tempo (150 bpm) are you playing 8ths? 1/4's? Or are you playing 16ths and beyond? Cos 16ths and beyond at that tempo is fast enough to do mostly anything. If you can't play 16ths or sextuplets at that speed... thats where you are failing...
Quote by liampje
I want to have these awesome shredder embelishments added in the right place to give the lead/melody an extra top of hot chocolate sauce meltiness stuff things.

It sounds more like you are looking for magic notes... its not gonna happen. If you can't add excitement... then you are lacking in a few areas of your playing. You have to scrutinise your playing and find your weaknesses and your strengths. Make your weaknesses adequate and your strengths superb... learn how to write songs.

If you counter that you already know how to write songs... then try understand that your solo is a story within a story... your excitement level is your solo climax...

Finding fast licks aint gonna help... writing odds and ends and pasting them in aren't going to help either. Thats crappy storytelling. You need to feel your piece to know where the fast licks come in... and you also have to be able to play them. The bottom line is execution... mixed with ability... and perhaps experience.
#20
Quote by evolucian
Ok... now at that tempo (150 bpm) are you playing 8ths? 1/4's? Or are you playing 16ths and beyond? Cos 16ths and beyond at that tempo is fast enough to do mostly anything. If you can't play 16ths or sextuplets at that speed... thats where you are failing...

It sounds more like you are looking for magic notes... its not gonna happen. If you can't add excitement... then you are lacking in a few areas of your playing. You have to scrutinise your playing and find your weaknesses and your strengths. Make your weaknesses adequate and your strengths superb... learn how to write songs.

If you counter that you already know how to write songs... then try understand that your solo is a story within a story... your excitement level is your solo climax...

Finding fast licks aint gonna help... writing odds and ends and pasting them in aren't going to help either. Thats crappy storytelling. You need to feel your piece to know where the fast licks come in... and you also have to be able to play them. The bottom line is execution... mixed with ability... and perhaps experience.

I don't know what I exactly play.
I mean sometimes I do a bunch of 32nd notes at an 80bpm backing but I get stuck on altering between 2 notes on the same string.
#21
Do you mean that you play two notes over and over, or that you can't play two notes?
Understand nothing, in order to learn everything.

Quote by liampje
I can write a coherent tune ... But 3/4? I play rock, not polka.
#22
Forget worrying about playing fast or incorporating certain techniques..you're not making an airfix kit here.

You're the one writing the music, so play what YOU think should come next, play what you think is going to sound good after what you've just played.

Whether it's fast or not is immaterial, incidental and incosequential - if the sound you hear in your head is a fast part then play one, if it isn't then don't and, more importantly, don't force yourself to.
Actually called Mark!

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...it's a seagull

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#23
Quote by steven seagull
Forget worrying about playing fast or incorporating certain techniques..you're not making an airfix kit here.

You're the one writing the music, so play what YOU think should come next, play what you think is going to sound good after what you've just played.

Whether it's fast or not is immaterial, incidental and incosequential - if the sound you hear in your head is a fast part then play one, if it isn't then don't and, more importantly, don't force yourself to.

I think I should have these little shredder embelishments every once in a while which works as tension building.
Slow Fast is a tension my teacher taught me.
#24
No, you shouldn't...you're trying to do the musical equivalent of painting by numbers and it's not going to work.
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


stuffmycatswatchontv.tumblr.com
#25
Quote by liampje
I don't know what I exactly play.
I mean sometimes I do a bunch of 32nd notes at an 80bpm backing but I get stuck on altering between 2 notes on the same string.

This translates that all you wanna do is widdle... with no thought of what you are playing... 32nds at 80bpm is cool... equates to 16ths at 160... though how steadily you can pick at that tempo is questionable (ie: constantly).

You still not going to get the desired results until you consciously think of your song and not harp on the fact "Oh, I can add a fast part here... cos this will be tension." It won't be tension-worthy if its placed in the wrong part, wrong time, etc etc... It may just land up sounding like "hustler time". But if thats what you're going for...
#26
You continuously mention "shredder embellishments", yet I don't think you've defined exactly what those are to you for us. By the way, 'to you for us'. Would you please explain what shredder embellishments mean in harmonic and melodic contexts to you for us? Generally speaking, you seem to want to create an effect -- which you haven't been able to otherwise -- using speed or embellishment. Thus, you have to let us know what you want to feel from the music for us to offer suggestions or guidance on how to do it.

However, there is a slight problem for us if to you the only thing that matters in your question and inquiry is throwing in a sweep here or a tapping run there for little musical purpose. If you want to do that, go write some TechDeath or something (however, I do like TechDeath, worry not, so to be frank merely doing what I've described in previous sentences in this paragraph would result in less than satisfactory TechDeath). There are some pleasant and generally unhelpful guides (they do not address the actual musical aims and motifs in the genre, only the basic musical resources necessary to even play it) up on UG which can help you with that. We, on the other hand, are not those guides and this thread or forum is not the place to find them.

If your musical intentions are noble, then we can still help you, so long as you listen to what Sean, wolf, steven, vamp, Riffman, and myself (to a small degree) have been and will probably have to continue saying:

1. Write the music. This is enjoyable, especially when you can play it and listen to it. Think reciting poetry to yourself. You'll hear flaws and startlingly good parts both in what you've wrote.

2. Write the music again, preferably differently. Using a nice Bm chord there, eh? Throw down an inversion. Or, hell, flip it into an arpeggio in a different inversion. Maybe add a sixth or a thirteenth to put a slight edge into the harmony.

3. Do the above two steps until you either get the one piece to sound exactly as you want it to or, better yet, until you can write without needing the second to get something to sound exactly as you want it to.

4. Remember that playing the notes is far more important than strictly playing the speed. Play a ton of muted 16ths at 150 bpm and see the effect versus a melody at that speed.

5. Remember the value of space. Rests are lovely things. Use them. It doesn't matter if you are playing Romantic, Baroque, folk, jazz, progressive rock, blues, or shred. Space works wonders in all places. It is not always what you say but what you do not say which does the most in the end.


Please, just do what we've been asking you to do: listen. I honestly do not care whether you listen to me, the knowledgeable others here, or the music more; for the sake of all, at least listen to one with all your ear. The only remaining things for you to do would be to analyze, learn, and apply. I sincerely hope that I've now helped you in some way, because I'm lost for more words without any further direction or clarification from you.

(I've been trying to not be such a comma-spewing punctuation junkie recently. Did I do well with not over-zealously punching in commas while still remaining syntactically and semantically valid?)
You might could use some double modals.
Last edited by AETHERA at Jul 6, 2011,
#27
Quote by liampje
I think you fail at understanding a text.
The title says I want to write my own shred licks.
Then if you see that I want to put fast licks in a song, you should think that my problem is: writing shred licks.
And the reason I want to write them is to put them in my songs

i get what u mean, the link was to address your other problem. i just thought i'd help you with what you really need help in...if you sit down and try hard enough, long enough, you'll come up with great shredding licks...you don't need us for that. van halen didn't ask the internet for that help. neither did steve vai. neither did joe satriani. they just sat down with a guitar, played their songs, and kept writing fast licks until they liked them. i'm sure u can do it. if you can play fast licks, and you can write good slow ones, you can write decent fast licks, it just might take time. i know this isnt the answer you want...because its the RIGHT answer. the reason i gave you that link was because fixing your foundation, a flaw which has stuck out like a sore thumb to us all for a very long time, is much more important than stating the obvious on how to write fast licks. nobody here is going to give you a big secret you've never heard and could never think of that'll automatically make you able to write good fast licks, there's no such thing as that secret, you just have to ****in do it. but first, or second, or simultaneously (nobody really cares as long as you get it done sometime) you NEED to fix your foundation in music by reading that book. it even has a nice section on modality for ya. just make sure u read the whole thing and don't skip to that cuz you think its more interesting...
#28
Quote by evolucian

If you counter that you already know how to write songs... then try understand that your solo is a story within a story... your excitement level is your solo climax...






Quote by AETHERA

However, there is a slight problem for us if to you the only thing that matters in your question and inquiry is throwing in a sweep here or a tapping run there for little musical purpose. If you want to do that, go write some TechDeath or something. There are some pleasant and generally unhelpful guides up on UG which can help you with that. We, on the other hand, are not those guides and this thread or forum is not the place to find them.




hey! Whats your beef with tech.Death?

tho the rest of your post is very helpful
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#30
Quote by TheyCallMeRune
my guitar teacher told me to steal them o.O

the shredding licks are just to add flavor, a lot of them are identical to eachother, so there's no harm in stealing a couple (which you could call the bebop technique "quoting")