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#1
Ok peeps i have a question.
I have a tendency to give waaaaay too much information in threads, and rambling on for like 5 paragraphs.
Im gonna make it simple.

I want to get a nice, slightly overdriven, fat bluesy tone. Think SRV, eric clapton, john mayer kind of tone.
(no i am NOT a john mayer fanboy, but a good example of the tone im looking for is the intro to the song "slow dancing in a burning room". I dont really like john mayer, but he has awesome tone.)

Which is more important for that tone?
I know the fender strat (or tele), and a nice tube amp are a perfect combo for the sound im going for, but i simply dont have the cash for a nice amp AND new guitar.

Which plays a more important role in having a nice fat bluesy tone: the (usually fender) guitar, or the (usually tube) amp?
my 6 best friends:
Ibanez Artcore AF75
Schecter C-1 Hellraiser
LTD H-207 7 string
Ibanez Acoustic
#2
You cannot get their tone without a Strat but you can get them without a tube amp. But everything that can give you that will cost as much as a tube amp. The guitar is more important. But it's a combination of amp and guitar. You can't have one without the other.
#3
Just saying, I count 4 paragraphs in retrospect, thats nearly rambling

But my best bet would be that the amp would have a larger effect, due to a guitar's sound being mainly influenced by the amp. Just my opinion though.
#4
people forget that you can EQ amps to make guitars sound different than they typically do. i'd say the amp is more important to getting the tone.

EDIT: and by "typically do" i mean the sound that most people associate with certain guitars.
I'm a dude, he's a dude, she's a dude, we're all dudes HEY!
Last edited by ItsThatDude at Jul 4, 2011,
#7
Quote by Shayden2008
Just saying, I count 4 paragraphs in retrospect, thats nearly rambling

But my best bet would be that the amp would have a larger effect, due to a guitar's sound being mainly influenced by the amp. Just my opinion though.


Have you seen my other threads? Each Paragraph in my usual threads is like teice as big as those paragraphs hahahah
I ramble so much

To redandwhite:
Yeah ill take some recommendations.
Im pretty sure all i need for an amp is a fender tube right?


And to everyone saying if i EQ the guitar right, i can get the sound im looking for, not exactly.
On my pod (ive already tried, i cant get the tone im looking for, even with the fender amp sim), ive tryed EQing everything, and i cant get it right. I think it all comes down to actually having the REAL gear, not a sim haha
my 6 best friends:
Ibanez Artcore AF75
Schecter C-1 Hellraiser
LTD H-207 7 string
Ibanez Acoustic
Last edited by musicTHEORYnerd at Jul 4, 2011,
#8
Go to my profile, there's a song called GT-10 + Strat Direct. It's nothing special. Just a little noodling testing out how dynamics are recorded. That was a really old patch and I have better ones now. There's not a tube in there but it's closer to what you're looking for than a tube amp with a your current guitars. Humbuckers will never sound like single coils. They respond different to attack and dynamics. I just want to point out that the volume knob nor pickup selector was touched.
Last edited by JELIFISH19 at Jul 4, 2011,
#9
Quote by musicTHEORYnerd
To redandwhite:
Yeah ill take some recommendations.
Im pretty sure all i need for an amp is a fender tube right?


SRV and John Mayer also used Two rocks and Dumbles besides Fenders but i am assuming you dont have thoushands to drop on an amp in so Fender is probably your best choice. I need a budget to make recommendations and are you willing to go used?
#10
just a little side note about SRVs tone is that he used really thick strings, like 12 and 13s on his strat, thats probably a factor on SRVs tone i would think
"It's not about who has the biggest stick, it's about how hard you can swing it"
#11
I get a pretty good Mayer and SRV tone with my 60s reissue strat, laney tube combo and jekyll and hyde on the jekyll overdrive setting. My pickups are SRV Texas Specials so they contribute pretty well. I find their tone comes from their picking techniques too because of their attack. Btw what's wrong with Mayer? He's a pretty awesome player.
#13
Why don't you give us a budget so we can actually help you?

EDIT: Doesn't your Hellraiser have coil tapped EMG's? There's your single coils.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
Last edited by Offworld92 at Jul 4, 2011,
#14
Definitely get a strat. You can get a cheap one, perhaps a Mexican Fender ad throw some GFS pickups in there, or a Squier classic vibe. You're really gonna need single coils for that sound. A tube amp is pretty awesome to have as well, especially one with versatility to play metal and clean blues. I swapped out all the tubes on my 6505 until I was able to get that balance. But you may be able to do the same thing with a less overdriven tube amp and a few pedals.
#15
To offworld, right now my budget is 0$. I quit my job a few weeks ago because i was treated like shit (im not exaggerating, i was basically the gum on the bottom of my bosses shoe for two years) and i dont have a new job yet.

I know im not gonna have the money for a while, but i know eventually i will invest in a nashville tele, and a nice huge fender tube amp and get that awesome sound.

And my gear is in my sig. I play alot of prog and jazz, so obviously my "bluesy" settings are not bluesy haha.
I DARE anyone of you to even try to get a nice fat bluesy tone out of a crate fxt, and a ltd 7 string.

Edit: no my hellraiser doesnt have the coil taps. I WISH it did, because then the guitar would be useful for something haha. I hate actives.
Its my most expensive piece of gear, and i never ever play it.
The only reason i havent sold it is because i inherited it, and it has some emotions tied to it.
my 6 best friends:
Ibanez Artcore AF75
Schecter C-1 Hellraiser
LTD H-207 7 string
Ibanez Acoustic
Last edited by musicTHEORYnerd at Jul 4, 2011,
#16
if you don't play the hellraiser then get past the little emotional thing and get a guitar that will allow you to get the sound (and emotion) you want. you want that style of tone then a strat (or strat style) guitar and tube amp is essential. i can get most of the tones (within reason) you mentioned with my strat and a peavey valveking. throw in a tubescreamer style overdrive ( i use a digitech cm-2 tube overdrive or a deltalab tube overdrive) a little reverb and you're good to go. as mentioned SRV and Mayer both use (d) rather expensive amps so don't expect to nail those on a budget. clapton has a mid boost in his strat so bear that in mind when eqing his sound.
#17
Clapton had humbuckers, go look into his bluesbreaker and early cream days. He used sg's and les pauls. But anyway, you have an ibanez artcore that should give a pretty bluesy sound, I say just get a decent tube amp and your good to go. And you could always get a strat later or sell a guitar to get one.
Guitars:
LTD F-50
Yamaha EG-112
'77 Harmony
Roadworn Starcaster
Gretsch G5120

Amps:
Vypyr 15
Epiphone Valve Junior combo
#18
Dont forget SRV had two tubescreamers in his chain. They contributed to the sound
I'll pretend I can mod your amp but break it instead.
#19
Quote by Offworld92
Why don't you give us a budget so we can actually help you?

EDIT: Doesn't your Hellraiser have coil tapped EMG's? There's your single coils.


Are you kidding me? Coil tapped actives? For blues? Are you nuts?

If you want the single coil sound, only single coils will give you that, you can get close with PASSIVE coil tapped humbuckers, but it wont be quite the same.

But the amp plays the biggest role in your tone, if you want twang, more treble and mids, you want more aggressive rock tone, more bass and mids.

I'd look into a nice Fender Hot Rod or a Marshall JCM900 2203.
#20
Quote by ethan_hanus
Are you kidding me? Coil tapped actives? For blues? Are you nuts?

If you want the single coil sound, only single coils will give you that, you can get close with PASSIVE coil tapped humbuckers, but it wont be quite the same.

But the amp plays the biggest role in your tone, if you want twang, more treble and mids, you want more aggressive rock tone, more bass and mids.

I'd look into a nice Fender Hot Rod or a Marshall JCM900 2203.


No, I'm not kidding. Have you ever played EMG single coils? (And I'm sure you know that the coil tappable EMG's are actually single coils, not just tapped humbuckers.) They are very good.

Anyway, the amp is the biggest role, like you say. David Gilmour uses EMG single coils, and you could never catch him dead having anywhere near bad tone.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#21
Quote by Offworld92
No, I'm not kidding. Have you ever played EMG single coils? (And I'm sure you know that the coil tappable EMG's are actually single coils, not just tapped humbuckers.) They are very good.

Anyway, the amp is the biggest role, like you say. David Gilmour uses EMG single coils, and you could never catch him dead having anywhere near bad tone.


No, I haven't yet, but still, actives for playing blues is not what I'd call ideal.
#22
Maybe not ideal... but I would never call them bad. I have pulled sweet, sweet blues tones using my EMG 60 (neck) into the rhythm channel of my 5150.

Then again, I'm a person who likes really gritty, dirty blues, so maybe that has something to do with it. Maybe depends on what one envisions when one thinks "blues"
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#23
Quote by Offworld92
Maybe not ideal... but I would never call them bad. I have pulled sweet, sweet blues tones using my EMG 60 (neck) into the rhythm channel of my 5150.

Then again, I'm a person who likes really gritty, dirty blues, so maybe that has something to do with it. Maybe depends on what one envisions when one thinks "blues"


You're thinking blues rock, which I love.

I think TS is thinking more traditional blues, where the tone is almost clean, but you have that power tube saturation adding dirt to the tone, which is a very difficult tone to get just right.
#24
If I had to put my finger on which was more important, The single coil pickups or the amp, I would probably lean towards the amp. But you're not really going to get very close with just one and not the other.
Feel free to call me Kyle.

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#25
Quote by ethan_hanus
You're thinking blues rock, which I love.

I think TS is thinking more traditional blues, where the tone is almost clean, but you have that power tube saturation adding dirt to the tone, which is a very difficult tone to get just right.


Mm, I see.

Even still, back to the original point... EMG single coils have a really pristine clean tone. Moreso than passives, I would say, simply because they are active. Then again, that may work against what TS is trying to achieve.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#26
Quote by Offworld92
Mm, I see.

Even still, back to the original point... EMG single coils have a really pristine clean tone. Moreso than passives, I would say, simply because they are active. Then again, that may work against what TS is trying to achieve.



They still compress the tone, which is prolly why they sound so pristine, but in blues you don't want compressed anything, it's all about dynamics and the natural overtones of the guitar, I've never known actives to give great overtones simply cause they compress the signal so much.
#27
I see this has become an active vs passive thread. I honestly don't see the point in active single coils for blues. It just seems like spending extra money for no reason to me.

Back on topic, I second the selling the Hellraiser thing. I sold mine a while ago when I realized I had no use for it anymore. I had an Ibanez that was far superior and a 7 string for heavy stuff. So I say sell it, perhaps on eBay. I got $530 for mine on eBay, which was more than I would have gotten locally(although it was more like $430 after fees and shipping blah).

But you should do that after you find a job so you don't end up using that money on trivial crap.
#28
1st of all, no i will not sell my hellraiser, and its not just getting over "the little emotion thing". I wont elaborate, because i dont want to seem like im begging for attention, but its NOT a "little emotion thing".

2nd of all, this isnt a passive vs active thread. I havent had enough time on a coil tapped EMG to say what i think of it, but i know i would much rather have passive single coils.

Thanks for everyone help though. I think ill try and save up (getting a job is first priority obviously) for a nice fender tube amp, and then maybe get a nashville tele.
my 6 best friends:
Ibanez Artcore AF75
Schecter C-1 Hellraiser
LTD H-207 7 string
Ibanez Acoustic
#29
Quote by ethan_hanus
You're thinking blues rock, which I love.

I think TS is thinking more traditional blues, where the tone is almost clean, but you have that power tube saturation adding dirt to the tone, which is a very difficult tone to get just right.


What's clean about SRV and Clapton? Lol.

But I say you should just get like a fender champ 600 for $150 or a used epiphone valve junior for like $100.

The big difference is the voicing, the fender is more american like SRV and the epiphone is more british like Clapton.

They're both tube and will give good tone, the only problem is you have to turn them up loud to get overdrive and they could both use bigger speakers. Just something to consider.
Guitars:
LTD F-50
Yamaha EG-112
'77 Harmony
Roadworn Starcaster
Gretsch G5120

Amps:
Vypyr 15
Epiphone Valve Junior combo
#30
i have a srv stra and you get that classy sound with the texas specials that are fitted i push it through a marshall 80 w valve and use a green ibanez tube screem(r orig 1986)
never been to the united states, but i have been in some states too much gear to list ,take a look at my pictures,, rock n roll living the dream.. blue
#31
Keep turning the tube amp up until it gets into the amount of overdrive you're looking for. Neck pickup on your strat (that's the one I'd use if I was playing blues licks, depending on the song obviously). Turn the tone down on your guitar completely. Maybe a splash of reverb.

Most important things would be a tube amp in slight overdrive and your guitar's tone rolled off. Especially for a Clapton-esque sound. Then just play with the other factors until you're happy.
#32
Quote by musicTHEORYnerd
1st of all, no i will not sell my hellraiser, and its not just getting over "the little emotion thing". I wont elaborate, because i dont want to seem like im begging for attention, but its NOT a "little emotion thing".

2nd of all, this isnt a passive vs active thread. I havent had enough time on a coil tapped EMG to say what i think of it, but i know i would much rather have passive single coils.

Thanks for everyone help though. I think ill try and save up (getting a job is first priority obviously) for a nice fender tube amp, and then maybe get a nashville tele.


dude you don't have to get bent about a suggestion. since you don't want to say and didn't we have no way of knowing what your attachment is. ok with what you have you ain't getting the sound you want. get yourself into a better finacial position and then come back for suggestions that will get you where you want to be.
#33
9I get a damn good SRV tone with my MIM Strat(GFS pups) and Tweaker. I use a Boost pedal I made instead of a ts808, But I'm still trying to find one
The illegality of cannabis is outrageous, an impediment to full utilization of a drug which helps produce the serenity and insight, sensitivity and fellowship so desperately needed in this increasingly mad and dangerous world.
- Carl Sagan
Last edited by SKArface McDank at Jul 6, 2011,
#34
Quote by musicTHEORYnerd
1st of all, no i will not sell my hellraiser, and its not just getting over "the little emotion thing". I wont elaborate, because i dont want to seem like im begging for attention, but its NOT a "little emotion thing".

2nd of all, this isnt a passive vs active thread. I havent had enough time on a coil tapped EMG to say what i think of it, but i know i would much rather have passive single coils.

Thanks for everyone help though. I think ill try and save up (getting a job is first priority obviously) for a nice fender tube amp, and then maybe get a nashville tele.

I'm curious why you won't sell the hellraiser. Would you mind elaborating a little? I don't know what this "begging for attention" thing is all about, you already started a thread, you have our attention. It's not like anyone is going to call you up to make you feel better or send you money, I don't think anyone really cares that much about your problems(I'm really not trying to be a dick with that comment, it's just an internet forum about guitars).
#35
Quote by musicTHEORYnerd
To offworld, right now my budget is 0$. I quit my job a few weeks ago because i was treated like shit (im not exaggerating, i was basically the gum on the bottom of my bosses shoe for two years) and i dont have a new job yet.

I know im not gonna have the money for a while, but i know eventually i will invest in a nashville tele, and a nice huge fender tube amp and get that awesome sound.

And my gear is in my sig. I play alot of prog and jazz, so obviously my "bluesy" settings are not bluesy haha.
I DARE anyone of you to even try to get a nice fat bluesy tone out of a crate fxt, and a ltd 7 string.

Edit: no my hellraiser doesnt have the coil taps. I WISH it did, because then the guitar would be useful for something haha. I hate actives.
Its my most expensive piece of gear, and i never ever play it.
The only reason i havent sold it is because i inherited it, and it has some emotions tied to it.

One thing you can do is change the pickups in the guitar to some nice passives. DiMarzio makes some killer humbuckers that can be split to sound fairly good.

But essentially, I would get a nice amp and maybe try re-wiring your actives to parallel to see if that helps. Not sure if it can be done with EMGs...
Then there's this band called Slice The Cake...

Bunch of faggots putting random riffs together and calling it "progressive" deathcore.
Stupid name.
Probably picked "for teh lulz"

Mod in UG's Official Gain Whores
#36
You could pick up a used Squier (they're really not as bad as UG makes them out to be, pretty sturdy and reliable for a beginner's guitar), drop some GFS pickups in it, and plug it into a used Valve Junior. There's your blues sound on a budget.

Used Valve Jr. - $100
Used Squier - $0-$80, depending on how lucky you are
GFS pickups - $50

Pretty cheap Blues rig and it'll sound better than you think. VJr's are pretty nice amps stock and they're exceptionally mod friendly. With a few simple mods these amps really open up and sound great.
Endorsed by Dean Guitars 07-10
2003 Gibson Flying V w/ Moon Inlay
2006 Fender All-American Partscaster
SVK ELP-C500 Custom

1964 Fender Vibro Champ
1989 Peavey VTM60

[thread="1166208"]Gibsons Historic Designs[/thread]
#37
Quote by Flux'D
You could pick up a used Squier (they're really not as bad as UG makes them out to be, pretty sturdy and reliable for a beginner's guitar), drop some GFS pickups in it, and plug it into a used Valve Junior. There's your blues sound on a budget.

Used Valve Jr. - $100
Used Squier - $0-$80, depending on how lucky you are
GFS pickups - $50

Pretty cheap Blues rig and it'll sound better than you think. VJr's are pretty nice amps stock and they're exceptionally mod friendly. With a few simple mods these amps really open up and sound great.


You know what, this is probably the best idea I've heard so far in this thread. Though, I guess that's not saying much considering the other big ideas involved coil tapping active Humbuckers or spending $3000+ plus worth of gear. I swear the internet is full of idiots ready to prove it.
Actually, I go by Dave, but there are already too many Daves on this forum.


Fender MIM Stratocaster
Fender Jaguar Bass
Epiphone EJ200 Super Jumbo
Fender Excelsior 13w
Acoustic B300HD (with matching 1x12 cab)
BOSS BD-2W
NYC Big Muff Pi
#38
For now you should just use your neck pickup, little bit of distortion or better yet buy an OD pedal, and EQ your amp until it sounds thick. Some above said to roll the tone down on your guitar a bit, I know Clapton supposedly rolled his down back in Cream and turned all his amp settings all the way up so you could try that whilst still using the neck.

I've done that through some Crates and it was more than lovely. Once you can afford the tele, it won't matter much though. Still, look into getting a used Tubescreamer if you can find one. I bought one second-hand for $75 in almost mint shape.
#39
Thought id let everyone know, tonight at open mic there was a guy who had almost the exact tone im going for.
He was playing a (beauuuutiful) gibson SG, with P90s, through a 30 watt fender amp. The tone was just dripping out of the amp it was amazing.
The overdrive was just awesome
my 6 best friends:
Ibanez Artcore AF75
Schecter C-1 Hellraiser
LTD H-207 7 string
Ibanez Acoustic
#40
I apologize for the double post, but i have another question.
From what ive read online, an ibanez tube screamer would help me zone in on this tone, right?

I havent tried it in person but ive read it is used by guitarist with a solid state amp to try to get that tube amp sound.
my 6 best friends:
Ibanez Artcore AF75
Schecter C-1 Hellraiser
LTD H-207 7 string
Ibanez Acoustic
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