#1


for the above tab does it matter when you switch from the sixtuplets to the triplet 16th notes when youre playing at 192bpm? will you actually hear a difference because i honestly cant hear one in guitar pro when its at 192bpm but im not sure if this will sound dif in my playing. i honestly cant hear it in the actual song either so im just wondering is there any point of actually doing this because right now im trying to learn this song and its a bitch switching from sixtuplets to triplets in the middle of the solo and its really wierd for me to get used too even at 30bpm lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuT2mQaTno0

5:22 is what im talking about (but pretty much all the fast runs are shown switching between normal notes/triplets/sixtuplets on the tab)

reason why im wondering this is because ive never tackled a song this fast and im wondering if theres a difference between going straight triplets/normal notes or alternating between them in the middle of really fast runs

(sorry if the above doesnt make sense im trying to explain it as good as i can) thanks advance for the help!
Gear
- Synyster Schecter Standard
- Peavey Vyper 15

I'm currently using Cubase 5 for any recording purposes.
#2
There's a huge difference and yes it matters. If you can't hear the difference then you're not hearing all the notes in the sextuplet runs.

Play triplet 8th notes at 120 bpm and then play 4 8th notes at the same tempo. Hear the difference there? It's that big at 192 with 16th sextuplets.

It also changes the amount of notes you play. If you play straight 16ths then you're only playing 16 notes in a measure. If you play sextuplet 16ths you're now playing 24 notes a measure.

Rhythm ALWAYS matters.
#3
The big thing to remember is that the guitarists that write these bits aren't thinking "aw yeah and then I'm gonna switch from sextuplets to septuplets." What they're doing is trying to simply finish the phrase or arpeggio on the beat. This leads to a slight acceleration or deceleration in accordance with how many notes they're playing. So yes, it kind of matters to make sure that you're playing all of the notes within the amount of time that they're written for.
Quote by dudetheman
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Last edited by DaddyTwoFoot at Jul 4, 2011,
#4
ok thanks guys i guess i just needed to play it some more to get used to it so now its just getting the speed up. i realized the reason why i kept getting off time because it went from sextuplets to the fivetuplets? (idk what its called) to triplets which is really wierd to play. i also went to slow down the solo myself (on audacity) and he does actually change the speeds in the middle of the fast runs which i never knew guitarists actually did.

this raises another question why does he do this and not just play straight sextuplets or triplets or whatever (other then for what daddytwofoot stated)? i mean there must be a reason why he did it, is there a really big difference that im not hearing or something? the reason i ask this is because i like to incorporate these things into my own solos so im just wondering does this cause a certain effect that my ears just cant distinguish at this point or is it something else? im still trying to wrap my head around this whole concept and why he changes the notes (i honestly cant hear the difference at full speed but there must be one im missing)


EDIT: nvm lol i just compared this tab with another tab that uses straight 32nd notes at 96bpm and the difference is clear to me now. so this raises another question (lol sorry) if i wanted to make a solo that sounds really fast and i used this type of thing would i just have to do trial and error for this and test out different combinations of note rhythms or how do i go about actually using this?
Gear
- Synyster Schecter Standard
- Peavey Vyper 15

I'm currently using Cubase 5 for any recording purposes.
Last edited by !Mike! at Jul 4, 2011,
#5
Quote by !Mike!
ok thanks guys i guess i just needed to play it some more to get used to it so now its just getting the speed up. i realized the reason why i kept getting off time because it went from sextuplets to the fivetuplets? (idk what its called) to triplets which is really wierd to play. i also went to slow down the solo myself (on audacity) and he does actually change the speeds in the middle of the fast runs which i never knew guitarists actually did.

this raises another question why does he do this and not just play straight sextuplets or triplets or whatever (other then for what daddytwofoot stated)? i mean there must be a reason why he did it, is there a really big difference that im not hearing or something? the reason i ask this is because i like to incorporate these things into my own solos so im just wondering does this cause a certain effect that my ears just cant distinguish at this point or is it something else? im still trying to wrap my head around this whole concept and why he changes the notes (i honestly cant hear the difference at full speed but there must be one im missing)


EDIT: nvm lol i just compared this tab with another tab that uses straight 32nd notes at 96bpm and the difference is clear to me now. so this raises another question (lol sorry) if i wanted to make a solo that sounds really fast and i used this type of thing would i just have to do trial and error for this and test out different combinations of note rhythms or how do i go about actually using this?


In that solo you can clearly see that it's exactly what DaddyTwoFoot said, the note groupings change almost exactly on the beat and each beat starts a new 'section' of the lick with a change of direction or the start of a new phrase.

Synyster is clearly vibing the solo out and aiming certain notes and phrases for certain beats with little actual regard for note groupings, the whole line then ends up being more of a texture in his mind rather than a conscious exercise in speed or whatever. Some people can and do compose their solos to use odd note groupings (John Petrucci and Michael Romeo come to mind) but most of the time when you see this kind of thing it's to start and end the line in the right place and their fingers are just trained to make notes of equal length at whatever speed they're playing.

I think it's just something that comes with time and experience myself but also it helps to think of fast playing in a sort of... sonic texture kind of way rather than a composed "and now I will play in sixteenths/sextuplets/whatever" way. Really to do that though you need to have youe playing to a point where you have an idea in your mind and you know you can end it in a certain way on a certain beat which means knowing how long an idea is in an instinctive way rather than a conscious way. If you're trying to do it and you think about it too much you end up playing in such a way that defeats the textural aim of the line and it ends up being very measured and clipped rather than the flowing, organic music you're going for.

Sorry if that was a bit... ramble-y, I hope it made as much sense to you as it did to me
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#6
But if I recall correctly aren't sextuplets just two triplets?
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#7
Quote by Shinozoku
But if I recall correctly aren't sextuplets just two triplets?


Really it depends on where the accents in the line are but in the acse above the ones that are notated as triplets are just groups of three in the middle of others rhythmic divisions where the sextuplets are six notes.
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


Album.
Legion.
#8
Quote by Shinozoku
But if I recall correctly aren't sextuplets just two triplets?

No. Somehow but not really. :/

depends on how you play it.
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#9
Excuse me threadstarter -

Do you mean "sextuplets"? And where exactly do you go between 16th note triplets and sextuplets if that's the case? I don't see anywhere in that tab...

If you did have to go between the two, there would be no difference in speed, just that 16th note triplets are two groups of three notes, and a sextuplet is 6 notes, and they are accented accordingly.

Finally, as Daddy said, the way most fast solos work is that the guitarists are "hearing ahead" and they aim for target notes to land on while noodling their way there and squashing the notes in however they fit.

That said, with enough chops and if you can hear ahead in in enough detail, then you can easily combine, swap and choose between rhythmic groupings, even ones that seem really challenging.

What it comes down to is having solid technique and solid fretboard knowledge, along with a decent musical imagination.
#10
Quote by Freepower
Excuse me threadstarter -

Do you mean "sextuplets"? And where exactly do you go between 16th note triplets and sextuplets if that's the case? I don't see anywhere in that tab...

If you did have to go between the two, there would be no difference in speed, just that 16th note triplets are two groups of three notes, and a sextuplet is 6 notes, and they are accented accordingly.

Finally, as Daddy said, the way most fast solos work is that the guitarists are "hearing ahead" and they aim for target notes to land on while noodling their way there and squashing the notes in however they fit.

That said, with enough chops and if you can hear ahead in in enough detail, then you can easily combine, swap and choose between rhythmic groupings, even ones that seem really challenging.

What it comes down to is having solid technique and solid fretboard knowledge, along with a decent musical imagination.

yeah i meant sextuplets i just didnt know how to spell but now I do and what im talking about on the tab is the first fast run (its kind of hard to see from the picture) it goes from 2 sets of sextuplet to 2 pairs of fivetuplets (idk wat theyre called) to 1 pair of triplets then another pair of fivetuplets then back to triplets.

and ok thanks so this isnt really a matter of spending time picking every individual note but more like just imrpovising but trying to get a certain vibe from all the notes together? because alot of these notes sound out of key when played slowly but it sounds really cool when its played fast
Gear
- Synyster Schecter Standard
- Peavey Vyper 15

I'm currently using Cubase 5 for any recording purposes.
#11
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
In that solo you can clearly see that it's exactly what DaddyTwoFoot said, the note groupings change almost exactly on the beat and each beat starts a new 'section' of the lick with a change of direction or the start of a new phrase.

Synyster is clearly vibing the solo out and aiming certain notes and phrases for certain beats with little actual regard for note groupings, the whole line then ends up being more of a texture in his mind rather than a conscious exercise in speed or whatever. Some people can and do compose their solos to use odd note groupings (John Petrucci and Michael Romeo come to mind) but most of the time when you see this kind of thing it's to start and end the line in the right place and their fingers are just trained to make notes of equal length at whatever speed they're playing.

I think it's just something that comes with time and experience myself but also it helps to think of fast playing in a sort of... sonic texture kind of way rather than a composed "and now I will play in sixteenths/sextuplets/whatever" way. Really to do that though you need to have youe playing to a point where you have an idea in your mind and you know you can end it in a certain way on a certain beat which means knowing how long an idea is in an instinctive way rather than a conscious way. If you're trying to do it and you think about it too much you end up playing in such a way that defeats the textural aim of the line and it ends up being very measured and clipped rather than the flowing, organic music you're going for.

Sorry if that was a bit... ramble-y, I hope it made as much sense to you as it did to me

alright thanks i think it kind of made sense (im still trying to wrap my head around it, but i guess its something that comes naturally) and youre right he said himself in an interview i watched that the solo isnt about the individual notes so much as it is the vibe of all the notes together.

so none of this is composed at a super slow bpm then trying to figure out each single note? because i thought they do that and just try to add dif rhythmic groupings. if its just kind of improvising its gonna take a long time for me to get to that point (maybe not idk)
Gear
- Synyster Schecter Standard
- Peavey Vyper 15

I'm currently using Cubase 5 for any recording purposes.
#12
yeah i meant sextuplets i just didnt know how to spell but now I do and what im talking about on the tab is the first fast run (its kind of hard to see from the picture) it goes from 2 sets of sextuplet to 2 pairs of fivetuplets (idk wat theyre called) to 1 pair of triplets then another pair of fivetuplets then back to triplets.


Yeah, it's not sextuplets moving to 16th triplets then, is it?

The reason they both appear there is to do with notational grammar, but each are an identical speed.

And yeah, improvising at speed isn't about spending time picking every note, although as you get better it should certainly start going that way.
#13
Quote by Freepower
Yeah, it's not sextuplets moving to 16th triplets then, is it?

The reason they both appear there is to do with notational grammar, but each are an identical speed.

And yeah, improvising at speed isn't about spending time picking every note, although as you get better it should certainly start going that way.

yeah im not sure what i was talking about first post i didnt analyze the tab well enough myself before i posted it
Gear
- Synyster Schecter Standard
- Peavey Vyper 15

I'm currently using Cubase 5 for any recording purposes.