#1
Howdy! This one's for everyone who uses their tremolos.

I've owned my fair share of guitars, over the years, but I've never used the tremolo on them. Mainly because I don't want to knock a guitar out of tune, in the middle of playing. Anyhow, I need help choosing a non-locking tremolo that won't go out of tune easily.

Would locking tuners and a good nut supplement a non-locking type tremolo enough?
Quote by Duv
Oh, and for resonance just play unplugged and see if it's loud. And smack an open A chord and hold the body and see if it vibrates like a middle-aged woman's best friend.
#2
good quality full floating trems will take a lot more assult than you think they would do, provided that they are well set up.

Peavey made an excellent floyd on one of my wolfgangs, it swear its beefier than an OFR. obviously OFR is a good bet.

schaller and gotoh also make great LFR's some will say on par with the OFR's.

i have an ibanex 3550MZ with the Edge Zero trem, and it stays in tune great.

most issues with floyds is that people don't know how to set them up (which is actually really easy and simple, or they have cheap floyds with poor knife edged (where the bridge contacts the post), which will be hell for staying in tune.

_____________________________

sorry this was all about floating, i didnt see those words before my quick post. but hopefully you gained some insight.
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alright "king of the guitar forum"


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youre just being a jerk man.



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Last edited by trashedlostfdup at Jul 6, 2011,
#3
look at this locking trem salesman here

i use a american std ash strat, it's on a fulcrum and stays in tune freakishly well
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#4
Quote by gumbilicious
look at this locking trem salesman here

i use a american std ash strat, it's on a fulcrum and stays in tune freakishly well


i know i caught that late. but hopefully he learned something, or at least somebody did.

as far as a fulcrum trem, my strat is basically blocked, due to five springs 11's and the bridge sitting flush against the body... lol.

mine didn't stay in tune well before that, keep in mine this is a '94 or '95 (can't remember which) MIM strat. but i also will say from owning five or so MIM strats, the mid 90's were the best for the MIM, needless to say only the one mentioned remains.
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Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



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#5
Quote by trashedlostfdup
i know i caught that late. but hopefully he learned something, or at least somebody did.


i keed, i keed

Quote by trashedlostfdup
as far as a fulcrum trem, my strat is basically blocked, due to five springs 11's and the bridge sitting flush against the body... lol.


that is a crime, but a popular one. i think i am the only one who fell in love with the fulcrum setup.

Quote by trashedlostfdup
mine didn't stay in tune well before that, keep in mine this is a '94 or '95 (can't remember which) MIM strat. but i also will say from owning five or so MIM strats, the mid 90's were the best for the MIM, needless to say only the one mentioned remains.


i own a '96 MIM tele, still like playing it. those are the years for the MIM's for sure.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#6
So is knife edge>ball bearing?
Quote by Duv
Oh, and for resonance just play unplugged and see if it's loud. And smack an open A chord and hold the body and see if it vibrates like a middle-aged woman's best friend.
#7
Quote by gumbilicious
i keed, i keed


that is a crime, but a popular one. i think i am the only one who fell in love with the fulcrum setup.


i own a '96 MIM tele, still like playing it. those are the years for the MIM's for sure.


the fulcrum setup can work for the most part, but really i am a hardtail type of guy anyways, and if i have a guitar with a trem (i have two or three, lost count, doesn't help with guitars burried in cases in closets, i just prefer full floating, as it gives you more options.

they are really great guitars, even has nice sound stock pickups. the two worst strats i owned were two 50th anniversary (around 04 or so, i can't remember), i almost wonder if they tried pumping them out so fast to keep up with the demand for the 'anniversary' that they went to crap. owned a 2009 strat that was just okay. i owned an 04 MIM tele that was a POS, an 06 tele that wasn't that bad, but i traded it straight up for a gibson sg white jazz (1/400 made), so that is why i dont' have a tele atm.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



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#8
^i have played a number of other newer american std strats and mine buries em. i did buy mine the day it previewed at name and was part of the limited number of ones distributed to big dealers to promote the new line so it was one of the first ones. dunno if that makes a difference though

Quote by willhurley82
So is knife edge>ball bearing?


dunno what that means. roller nuts?
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#9
I've always been partial to Bigsby trems; all that mass at the bridge of the guitar seems to do wonderful things to the tone, to my ears at least. They do have a tendency to pull your tuning sharp though, depending on string gauge used.
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#10
on a second note, i just saw Conrad Oberg (up and coming blues player) when he played with his strat, which apperared to have a very reliced look to it (these days you never know if it genuine or artifical relicing), and he had a hand on his tuners at least twice per song. he was using what i would consider to be a relatively moderate to heavy tremolo use. but again i know nothing of his strat.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#11
get a sterling jp50/60/100

It has a great non locking trem and plus it comes stock with locking tuners. Stays in tune great in my JP50.

http://www.sterlingbymusicman.com/jp-guitars
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#12
i have two guitars that have Bigsby trems on them. Never had a problem, i like them a lot.
#14
Quote by willhurley82
Howdy! This one's for everyone who uses their tremolos.

I've owned my fair share of guitars, over the years, but I've never used the tremolo on them. Mainly because I don't want to knock a guitar out of tune, in the middle of playing. Anyhow, I need help choosing a non-locking tremolo that won't go out of tune easily.

Would locking tuners and a good nut supplement a non-locking type tremolo enough?


A graphite nut and a good set of sperzel or other locking tuners is what you want to use.

No trem will stay in for any length of time if you actually start using the whammy bar very much without some sort locking mechanism.

Locking tuners and Wilkinson bridge (two point non locking) will stay in tune almost as well as a Floyd for most people it's about the same.

That is until you start doing things that are actually impossible without a Floyd

EDIT:
Quote by willhurley82
So is knife edge>ball bearing?


Knife edges have nothing to do with ball bearings nor can they be compared to them.

On a floating trem the knife edges are where the bridge is in actual contact with the slots in the post.


Quote by gumbilicious
^i have played a number of other newer american std strats and mine buries em. i did buy mine the day it previewed at name and was part of the limited number of ones distributed to big dealers to promote the new line so it was one of the first ones. dunno if that makes a difference though

dunno what that means. roller nuts?

This is a roller nut they're expensive and complicated to install after market


Just my 2¢ graphite nuts work better and cost a lot less and are a drop in replacement.


EDIT_2:
Quote by trashedlostfdup
not to get off topic, but.

is the ZR the same as the edge zero with zps? just curious. i got that in my new ibanez 3550MZ and don't know much about the trem, much less ibanez's trems in general.

just mainly wondering because it looks quite different from the back than a typical floyd.


The reason a ZR doesn't look like a Floyd is simple it isn't a Floyd.

The ZR is more like a Kahler nobody mentioned it but Kahler's also have bearings.

After playing guitars with Floyd's for years other trems just feel weird for lack of a better term.

Guess I'm stuck with using a Floyd or stop tail piece.
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Last edited by Willowthewitch at Jul 9, 2011,
#15
yeah locking tuners and a lubed nut should be fine with a non-locking trem, as long as it's a pretty decent trem in the first place.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#16
i've heard better springs on the trem will stop it going out of tune so easily what are the best trem SPRINGS ?
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#17
Off topic(ish): Am I the only one bugged by the use of the word "tremolo" in place of "vibrato"?
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Quote by bogg808
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#18
Quote by Willowthewitch
A graphite nut and a good set of sperzel or other locking tuners is what you want to use.

No trem will stay in for any length of time if you actually start using the whammy bar very much without some sort locking mechanism.

Locking tuners and Wilkinson bridge (two point non locking) will stay in tune almost as well as a Floyd for most people it's about the same.

That is until you start doing things that are actually impossible without a Floyd

EDIT:


Knife edges have nothing to do with ball bearings nor can they be compared to them.

On a floating trem the knife edges are where the bridge is in actual contact with the slots in the post.


This is a roller nut they're expensive and complicated to install after market


Just my 2¢ graphite nuts work better and cost a lot less and are a drop in replacement.



Listen to this girl(I assume), she knows the way.

Wilkinson trems are some of the best none locking trems, combined with a graphite nut, will stay in tune very very well. Prolly the best possible non locking trem set up you can get.

Tis what I plan on getting on my custom strat, whenever I get the money.
#19
Quote by <Cared4thebetta
i've heard better springs on the trem will stop it going out of tune so easily what are the best trem SPRINGS ?


maybe, but i mean i'd want a good trem first. i'd be extremely sceptical that good springs with a crap trem would do very much at all.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#20
Quote by willhurley82
So is knife edge>ball bearing?

The only trem I know of that uses ball-bearings is the Ibanez ZR - which is a locking model, so probably not what you're looking for.


For subtle use, even a Bigsby or 6-screw model will work fine. Knife-edge trems that aren't worn out work well long as the nut is properly lubricated - Not an issue with most bone nuts or stuff like graphtech, but if the guitar's got a plastic nut, that's something that needs some attention from time to time. From my experience with the roller nut on one of my guitars I have to say that it's not much better stability-wise than a well-lubricated, well-cut nut of some other type, but it does alter the sound of open strings a little.
Last edited by TheQuailman at Jul 8, 2011,
#21
Gotoh/Wilkinson Vs100 + graphite nut + locking tuners = Rock solid stability for a non locking system.

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#22
^^ vigier uses ball bearings too i think.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#23
Quote by TheQuailman
The only trem I know of that uses ball-bearings is the Ibanez ZR - which is a locking model, so probably not what you're looking for.


.


not to get off topic, but.

is the ZR the same as the edge zero with zps? just curious. i got that in my new ibanez 3550MZ and don't know much about the trem, much less ibanez's trems in general.

just mainly wondering because it looks quite different from the back than a typical floyd.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



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2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
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#24
nah i think it's different. tom will know.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#25
^^Far as I know, the Edge Zero is a knife-edge system, while the ZR rests on ball bearings. Both use the "Zero Point" system in the back, but hell if I know wtf that actually is. Sorry, I can't help you much here. :/


^^^Interesting bit to know. Do they make their own trems?
#26
i think schaller makes them. not certain, but i think so. whether or not (assuming they do make them) schaller makes them 100% or they're just stock models which vigier then mods, i dunno.

and yeah i'm guessing the zps is something akin to a tremsetter. could be wrong again, but i assume so.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#27
Interesting. Schaller does not offer aftermarket-trems that rest on ball-bearings, so I'll assume it's a custom job for Vigier (if Schaller is indeed the manufacturer).
#28
thanks, i looked a little bit into it after the post again, and i am not sure either. there is something in there that definitely looks like it has the potential to have some form of bearing, but can come to no conclusion.
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Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



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#29
Quote by TheQuailman
Interesting. Schaller does not offer aftermarket-trems that rest on ball-bearings, so I'll assume it's a custom job for Vigier (if Schaller is indeed the manufacturer).


yeah. that's why i said i wasn't sure if vigier modded them or if they were just custom made for them, as you said, all the schaller-branded trems are knife edge, as far as i'm aware.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#30
Quote by trashedlostfdup
thanks, i looked a little bit into it after the post again, and i am not sure either. there is something in there that definitely looks like it has the potential to have some form of bearing, but can come to no conclusion.

There should be no bearings on the Edge Zero... or are you talking about the back? I don't know about that really.
#31
Quote by trashedlostfdup
thanks, i looked a little bit into it after the post again, and i am not sure either. there is something in there that definitely looks like it has the potential to have some form of bearing, but can come to no conclusion.



ZR trem uses BB instead of a traditional knife edge.
Edge based bridges use knife edges as per usual.

The Zero Point system is the bar/retainer to help keep tension in the case of a string breaking

1977 Burny FLG70
2004 EBMM JP6
2016 SE Holcolmb
#33
Quote by willhurley82
Howdy! This one's for everyone who uses their tremolos.

I've owned my fair share of guitars, over the years, but I've never used the tremolo on them. Mainly because I don't want to knock a guitar out of tune, in the middle of playing. Anyhow, I need help choosing a non-locking tremolo that won't go out of tune easily.

Would locking tuners and a good nut supplement a non-locking type tremolo enough?

Get a Strat and put locking tuners and a good nut on it. Or just leave it stock. Hendrix is my favorite guitarist (IMO, the best) and he used stock CBS Fender Strats. Look at how much the bar was used!
#34
Quote by Dave_Mc
yeah. that's why i said i wasn't sure if vigier modded them or if they were just custom made for them, as you said, all the schaller-branded trems are knife edge, as far as i'm aware.


The needles bearing pivoting tremolo on Vigier guitars is all Patrice Vigier's design but they are made exclusively for Vigier by Schaller as the quality is second to none.
#35
Quote by trashedlostfdup
not to get off topic, but.

is the ZR the same as the edge zero with zps? just curious. i got that in my new ibanez 3550MZ and don't know much about the trem, much less ibanez's trems in general.

just mainly wondering because it looks quite different from the back than a typical floyd.

No, the Edge Zero is an Edge/ZR hybrid. It is essentially a ZR, but with knife edges rather than the bearing system.

The ZPS is a stabiliser type thing, here's a pic, the ZPS is the bar with 2 springs on it;


Both the Edge Zero and ZR have the ZPS, but most people prefer to take them out. It feels smoother without it, and it doesn't affect the tuning stability at all (in fact, a lot of people say it returns better without the ZPS)

EDIT: Dave/Duck, the Schaller Tremolo 2000 is a knife edge version of the Vigier trem I believe.
Last edited by littlephil at Jul 20, 2011,
#36
^ yeah probably, it does pretty much look identical. thanks

Quote by Indus
The needles bearing pivoting tremolo on Vigier guitars is all Patrice Vigier's design but they are made exclusively for Vigier by Schaller as the quality is second to none.


thanks, that's what i figured
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#37
I've found Bigsby's tend to pull my tuning ever so slightly sharp during normal playing, although that is very much dependant on string gauge used I'd imagine (I'm using 10-46 Ernie Balls).
Recently, I've been having lots of fun with a Jazzmaster tremolo, stays in tune perfectly despite some heavy wobbling. I did fit the buzzstopper to my JM trem due to the fact I tune half a step down, and all sorts of screws were working their way loose on the bridge due to lack of tension. It is an excellent trem when set up correctly though.
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Marshall DSL15H, Weber Speakers, Fender Champs (x2),
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