#1
This is just something I came up with yesterday, I think it sounds okay, hopefully not very generic either since I had no actual influence when writing it as far as I recall :p

So all I'm wondering is if it's worth finishing this or if I should just throw it away?

Thanks!

PS. if you like this song, like my Facebook page to be the first to know when I have recorded it! http://www.facebook.com/pages/Aurora-at-Night/131893783524839

Edit:

Uploaded a version in Drop A with a few minor changes

Edit 2:

Uploaded (most likely) the final version.
Attachments:
Nyisk.gp5
Nyisk (Drop A).gp5
Final version - Nyisk (Drop A).gp5
Last edited by Erra93 at Jul 12, 2011,
#2
Thanks for the comment on my tab! This was pretty cool, I liked the drop A version, felt very groov-ish. the harmonic parts didn't really sound like they fit the key to the song, but that may just be a guitar pro thing. Nice job
#3
Quote by pol315
Thanks for the comment on my tab! This was pretty cool, I liked the drop A version, felt very groov-ish. the harmonic parts didn't really sound like they fit the key to the song, but that may just be a guitar pro thing. Nice job


Thanks a lot, haven't noticed that before, though it's true, you're referring to the ones in Verse I, right? :p

I have written an epic outro for it, I just have to come up with some more riffs before I put it to use
Last edited by Erra93 at Jul 12, 2011,
#4
I listened to the Drop A versions, and I can honestly say that I legitimately enjoyed this the way through - there are some solid themes and great developments underway, which is the foundation of a solid piece of music. In fact, the only parts I really disliked were bars 39 and 40; I think they were absolutely dreadful compared to what preceded them.

What I particularly enjoyed - along with the major key - was the subtle call-and-response ethic employed in bar 15. I think particularly for a groove-oriented track like this, dividing those strong grooves between guitars could be phenomenal, particularly in a big, open stereo field. Bar 19 seems a good choice to use this tactic again, and even your D5 and C#5 chords in bar 35 could be traded off between each guitar as a simple variation of the first repeat in bar 30.
Really exploiting the stereo field is my biggest fascination with this, and something I'd love to hear you do; even the subtleties happening now are sublime, and those low m2s? Yum!
You might also like to incorporate some guitar parts which move in different directions, making for some contrapuntal voicings and harmonies. These can really fill out your sound, as they did in the second half of your Chorus. Experiment with making variations of your themes so that as, say, Guitar I descends, Guitar II might ascend. You could line these parts up rhythmically, or have Guitar II's part sit in the rests of Guitar I's riffs to create a sort of counterpoint - this can also be great for transitioning to different registers! These are very generalized ways of approaching contrapuntal movement and writing for multiple simultaneous voices, so I wouldn't recommend adopting them as strict approaches to use, but I think those techniques would serve this piece wonderfully.

The only thing I could suggest in the change-department for what you have so far is to include some cues on the drums prior to new sections. Everything works as is, but you could strengthen some of the more drastic transitions, such as the end of the Chorus to Verse II, to ease the listener in more smoothly - if that's what you'd like to have, of course!

Again, I really enjoyed this, and I'd love to hear how you develop it. Could you send me a PM once more progress has been made?
If you could drop by a few lines on 'Ghost Tavern' in my sig, that would be fantastic! Even if you want to write about the visual image you get from the music - which is the big factor for this one - I'd really appreciate it. Anything else would be a great bonus though.

Again, great work on this champ, be sure to keep on with it,

Last edited by juckfush at Jul 12, 2011,
#5
Quote by juckfush
I listened to the Drop A versions, and I can honestly say that I legitimately enjoyed this the way through - there are some solid themes and great developments underway, which is the foundation of a solid piece of music. In fact, the only parts I really disliked were bars 39 and 40; I think they were absolutely dreadful compared to what preceded them.

What I particularly enjoyed - along with the major key - was the subtle call-and-response ethic employed in bar 15. I think particularly for a groove-oriented track like this, dividing those strong grooves between guitars could be phenomenal, particularly in a big, open stereo field. Bar 19 seems a good choice to use this tactic again, and even your D5 and C#5 chords in bar 35 could be traded off between each guitar as a simple variation of the first repeat in bar 30.
Really exploiting the stereo field is my biggest fascination with this, and something I'd love to hear you do; even the subtleties happening now are sublime, and those low m2s? Yum!
You might also like to incorporate some guitar parts which move in different directions, making for some contrapuntal voicings and harmonies. These can really fill out your sound, as they did in the second half of your Chorus. Experiment with making variations of your themes so that as, say, Guitar I descends, Guitar II might ascend. You could line these parts up rhythmically, or have Guitar II's part sit in the rests of Guitar I's riffs to create a sort of counterpoint - this can also be great for transitioning to different registers! These are very generalized ways of approaching contrapuntal movement and writing for multiple simultaneous voices, so I wouldn't recommend adopting them as strict approaches to use, but I think those techniques would serve this piece wonderfully.

The only thing I could suggest in the change-department for what you have so far is to include some cues on the drums prior to new sections. Everything works as is, but you could strengthen some of the more drastic transitions, such as the end of the Chorus to Verse II, to ease the listener in more smoothly - if that's what you'd like to have, of course!

Again, I really enjoyed this, and I'd love to hear how you develop it. Could you send me a PM once more progress has been made?
If you could drop by a few lines on 'Ghost Tavern' in my sig, that would be fantastic! Even if you want to write about the visual image you get from the music - which is the big factor for this one - I'd really appreciate it. Anything else would be a great bonus though.

Again, great work on this champ, be sure to keep on with it,



Wow, thank you! I completely agree with you on bars 39 and 40, so I decided to redo them

By the way, I barely know any music theory at all (especially not chord names, not much about what things are called either) haha, so I'm sorry I didn't understand most of what you said, however, what you were referring to in bar 15 I tried to recreate in other parts of the song as well not sure if I failed doing it though

Not sure what you mean when you say different registers? :<
Also, I made a small change to the drums at the last bar of Chorus I, it should be at least a little smoother now

I tried to give you a fair crit on your work, but you are far too superior, haha

Also, I have uploaded the latest version now, with a second chorus (not much new), a third verse (completely new), a third chorus (minor changes here too), a fourth verse (parts copied from the third verse) and an outro that I'm not sure fits this song, but I find is epic anyway
#6
Hey champ, thanks for the fantastic critique in my thread! I really appreciate such a quick and detailed reply, and I'm really glad that you enjoyed it.

Just like the original version, I'm loving this update so much (the trade-off at bar 35 is exactly what i had in mind, haha). I'll admit that I was a little concerned when I saw some open-string chugging, fearing for an irrelevant breakdown, but my worries were quickly dismissed.
You'd done a great job expanding on this, and each theme stays fresh throughout. Maybe I'm a little too happy about a major-keyed Drop A song, but I've really enjoyed listening to this each time.

Using different registers refers to using different octaves and ranges of an instrument, so in the case of guitar, exploring the neck a little more The updates definitely take advantage of this, so huge props there!
I've meddled with the GP file a little to include some ideas I was hearing during the playback, which you're more than free to take on board if you like then. The changes occur from bars 62 to 74, and 87 to 88 (this was a lazy one, just to give some ideas you might like ). Hopefully these illustrate parts of what my original post was focused on, and I can only hope more that they'll be of some use to you.

On a final note... the song title really did something for me. I'm not sure what the meaning behind it is, but it had an emotional impact which really intensified the song, that's for sure. Be sure to send a PM my way with anything else you write, as I'd be more than happy to check them out!

Attachments:
Final version - Nyisk (Drop A) w Juckfush's Meddling.gp4
Final version - Nyisk (Drop A) w Juckfush's Meddling.gp5
#7
Quote by juckfush
Hey champ, thanks for the fantastic critique in my thread! I really appreciate such a quick and detailed reply, and I'm really glad that you enjoyed it.

Just like the original version, I'm loving this update so much (the trade-off at bar 35 is exactly what i had in mind, haha). I'll admit that I was a little concerned when I saw some open-string chugging, fearing for an irrelevant breakdown, but my worries were quickly dismissed. haha
You'd done a great job expanding on this, and each theme stays fresh throughout. Maybe I'm a little too happy about a major-keyed Drop A song, but I've really enjoyed listening to this each time.

Using different registers refers to using different octaves and ranges of an instrument, so in the case of guitar, exploring the neck a little more The updates definitely take advantage of this, so huge props there!
I've meddled with the GP file a little to include some ideas I was hearing during the playback, which you're more than free to take on board if you like then. The changes occur from bars 62 to 74, and 87 to 88 (this was a lazy one, just to give some ideas you might like). Hopefully these illustrate parts of what my original post was focused on, and I can only hope more that they'll be of some use to you.

On a final note... the song title really did something for me. I'm not sure what the meaning behind it is, but it had an emotional impact which really intensified the song, that's for sure. Be sure to send a PM my way with anything else you write, as I'd be more than happy to check them out!



Hey, it was nothing!

I was hoping I at least got that right, haha! I see why you'd think so, but thanks to my friend (Roflpwn on this forum), I've grown from boring mediocre breakdowns, what I was going for in Verse III was a bit of rhythm and chord progressions, along with a few melodies to make it less boring
Thanks mate, I'm really glad to hear that! By the way, how would I, myself, know that it is in the major key?

Aaah, yeah, I'm actually not that good at guitar and I really suck at exploring the neck (plus, I've never ever written a solo, I just can't come up with one, I guess I would get better if I practised already made solos though)
I guess it's the fact that I can never find bend notes / vibrato-ing that sounds good (I also can't come up with fast note runs, with slides, string changing and all that, wish I had it down better)

And wow, I can't tell you how much I loved that part between 62 and 74, it's just so happy! The perfect amount of happy, indeed!
But no matter how much I love it, I wouldn't feel confident using something that someone else wrote :<
However, I will stick with the chords you used on bar 71-74 and thanks to that awesome melody, I now have a reason to push myself to finally create my first "solo"-like something, I truly hope I don't come off as a douchebag, because it would always feel like I stole that part from you and that the song wasn't entirely made by me..I feel kind of pathetic now though :<
The sad part is that I don't think I will be able to write something that is up to par with it :|
Huge props for it, you should definitely try to put them to use in one of your own songs!
I really really hope you don't think less of me now, sorry!

Also, what does "8va" mean?

PS. The song title "Proud Of The Crows" refers to the symbolism of the Crow, which is rebirth, but in the sense that I am proud of the rebirth of me, the better me which I have become through my experiences in life
#8
Just to get this out of the way... you're a damn top bloke, and it's made my day reading these posts; I dig the optimism!

As for determining the key, the biggest give-away is where the song resolves, or where it feels ''at home'', which in this case is your open A# note. The A# is better treated as Bb in this case, for the main reason that when writing scales in Western music, it's best to avoid doubling up on letter names.
For example, we would write D major as D E F# G A B C#, rather than D E Gb G A B Db; it looks much neater the first way, but each letter name corresponds to its own single scale degree this way (such as major second, major third, and so on), which is very important. There's a bit more theory that precedes this detail, and I'd be more than happy to go from the very start up to whatever you'd like to know through exchanging PMs - I'd hate to clog up this threads and have everyone else in T&C mad about the incessant bumping.
In the meantime though, you might want to have a gander at this link, which explains how major scales are constructed, and how a single formula can be applied to any major key. There's one explaining the very same for minor keys right after it, too, and the whole site itself is an absolutely fantastic resource if you're wanting to start out with some theory.

To jump straight to the big answer for your song though, we know that the piece resolves - or feels at home - on Bb, and the notes we can compile are Bb C D Eb F G and A, which satisfy the formula for the major scale shown in the link above (I II III IV V VI VII). This is essentially all the information we need when determining a key in Western Music.
Sorry for the very disjointed and meh explanation, but I hope I've answered your question well-enough without going from the very beginning, haha. But like I said, I'd be more than happy to help out through PMs more concisely and from the beginning!
And for the second question! 8va's a notational tool which means notes will be played an octave higher than written; try highlighting the 8va section, and selecting the 8va tool on Guitar Pro to see what happens. There's a good chance a flock of pianists will come to yell at you.

As for writing leads and melodies, experimenting and staying consistent is the way to go! Listen to a bunch of bands you like who incorporate simple melodies into their songs, and have a tab or Guitar Pro file open that shows what's going on. After listening to a few of these - and even playing along to get a feel for what's physically happening on the instrument, or humming to internalize them - you could try looping a section of one of your songs, and listening out for a couple of notes that might sound nice.
When I added my melody in, I'd listened to your rhythmic groove and hummed the basic tune in my head after a few repeats, not worrying about trying to work it out on guitar right away. Because of this, I could hear the entire section as it was (you could even loop a one-bar phrase to start off) and have absolute creative freedom when expanding on it.
Once you're familiar with the rhythmic backing and the harmony's implied by the chord progression, coming up with a melody isn't bad at all - your melody starting at bar 95 is a clear indicator that you can do it astoundingly! I'd say loop a section, and come up with a simple melody. From here, loop and listen out again - should some notes be slid into? Is there a really strong note at one point that could be enhanced by bending or sliding into it? Would a fast run leading into this note work well, or should I leave a gap to build some tension? Don't worry too much - even at all! - about trying to include the techniques you've listed. Just listen out for certain notes that could benefit from those subtleties, and go from there. You might not come up with those subtitles with your guitar in hand, but trying to play some slick, expressive lines after writing them is a sure-fire way to boost your technique while staying musical!
I hope this lengthy post has helped somewhat, and like I've said, I'd be more than happy to help out more directly if I can. If you want to send anything my way and discuss approaches, I'd be glad to, as I would be for anything else you want to talk about.

I don't see how you could possibly come off as a douchebag, by the way. I'll be absolutely honest in saying that nothing I write will ever call for the melody I've put in your song, because it was written specifically with your grooves, your note choice, your song title, and your overall composition in mind - it's 100% yours so long as you're comfortable with using it, but I won't push for that.
You've written a tremendous composition here with a great personality, and you're more than capable of writing whatever you like; like you've said yourself, you haven't written many leads and it's something you'll get accustomed to with time and practice. Get keep your chin up and stay positive, because you can write and do whatever you want to do, and I'm very much looking forward to the proof of that!

Again, great work champ, and keep me up to date with any more compositions you have, and feel free to PM me for anything.

#9
I heard the final version of this! It really came along well! Nice job, I really like how melodic it is for Drop A! My last band tried to do something similar, we played melodic metalcore in Drop A and it sounded really cool, and this definitely reminded me of it! Great job man!
#10
Quote by pol315
I heard the final version of this! It really came along well! Nice job, I really like how melodic it is for Drop A! My last band tried to do something similar, we played melodic metalcore in Drop A and it sounded really cool, and this definitely reminded me of it! Great job man!


Thanks a lot man!
Yeah, I feel that as long as you have your own personal touch in a song and try not to sound like other bands, at least you'll be happy with it and that's what's important!

Quote by juckfush
Just to get this out of the way... you're a damn top bloke, and it's made my day reading these posts; I dig the optimism!

As for determining the key, the biggest give-away is where the song resolves, or where it feels ''at home'', which in this case is your open A# note. The A# is better treated as Bb in this case, for the main reason that when writing scales in Western music, it's best to avoid doubling up on letter names.
For example, we would write D major as D E F# G A B C#, rather than D E Gb G A B Db; it looks much neater the first way, but each letter name corresponds to its own single scale degree this way (such as major second, major third, and so on), which is very important. There's a bit more theory that precedes this detail, and I'd be more than happy to go from the very start up to whatever you'd like to know through exchanging PMs - I'd hate to clog up this threads and have everyone else in T&C mad about the incessant bumping.
In the meantime though, you might want to have a gander at this link, which explains how major scales are constructed, and how a single formula can be applied to any major key. There's one explaining the very same for minor keys right after it, too, and the whole site itself is an absolutely fantastic resource if you're wanting to start out with some theory.

To jump straight to the big answer for your song though, we know that the piece resolves - or feels at home - on Bb, and the notes we can compile are Bb C D Eb F G and A, which satisfy the formula for the major scale shown in the link above (I II III IV V VI VII). This is essentially all the information we need when determining a key in Western Music.
Sorry for the very disjointed and meh explanation, but I hope I've answered your question well-enough without going from the very beginning, haha. But like I said, I'd be more than happy to help out through PMs more concisely and from the beginning!
And for the second question! 8va's a notational tool which means notes will be played an octave higher than written; try highlighting the 8va section, and selecting the 8va tool on Guitar Pro to see what happens. There's a good chance a flock of pianists will come to yell at you.

As for writing leads and melodies, experimenting and staying consistent is the way to go! Listen to a bunch of bands you like who incorporate simple melodies into their songs, and have a tab or Guitar Pro file open that shows what's going on. After listening to a few of these - and even playing along to get a feel for what's physically happening on the instrument, or humming to internalize them - you could try looping a section of one of your songs, and listening out for a couple of notes that might sound nice.
When I added my melody in, I'd listened to your rhythmic groove and hummed the basic tune in my head after a few repeats, not worrying about trying to work it out on guitar right away. Because of this, I could hear the entire section as it was (you could even loop a one-bar phrase to start off) and have absolute creative freedom when expanding on it.
Once you're familiar with the rhythmic backing and the harmony's implied by the chord progression, coming up with a melody isn't bad at all - your melody starting at bar 95 is a clear indicator that you can do it astoundingly! I'd say loop a section, and come up with a simple melody. From here, loop and listen out again - should some notes be slid into? Is there a really strong note at one point that could be enhanced by bending or sliding into it? Would a fast run leading into this note work well, or should I leave a gap to build some tension? Don't worry too much - even at all! - about trying to include the techniques you've listed. Just listen out for certain notes that could benefit from those subtleties, and go from there. You might not come up with those subtitles with your guitar in hand, but trying to play some slick, expressive lines after writing them is a sure-fire way to boost your technique while staying musical!
I hope this lengthy post has helped somewhat, and like I've said, I'd be more than happy to help out more directly if I can. If you want to send anything my way and discuss approaches, I'd be glad to, as I would be for anything else you want to talk about.

I don't see how you could possibly come off as a douchebag, by the way. I'll be absolutely honest in saying that nothing I write will ever call for the melody I've put in your song, because it was written specifically with your grooves, your note choice, your song title, and your overall composition in mind - it's 100% yours so long as you're comfortable with using it, but I won't push for that.
You've written a tremendous composition here with a great personality, and you're more than capable of writing whatever you like; like you've said yourself, you haven't written many leads and it's something you'll get accustomed to with time and practice. Get keep your chin up and stay positive, because you can write and do whatever you want to do, and I'm very much looking forward to the proof of that!

Again, great work champ, and keep me up to date with any more compositions you have, and feel free to PM me for anything.



Haha, you've definitely got to be the nicest person around here

Wow, thank you for the huge explanation, I will study it more thoroughly when I have more time and I will definitely start going through the riffs, so as to be able to come up with a fitting melody and try to hear it first
Also, thank you for the offer, I will come to you first hand when I am looking into learning more music theory! I guess it'll be a while before I completely grasp "keys" though

It helped much more than I could ever ask for, so thank you once again!

Haha, I'm glad to hear that
Well, maybe we could do a collaboration later on? That would be really cool, I really did love your additions!

Thanks for everything and I will definitely keep you updated, would love to hear more from you as well!
Last edited by Erra93 at Jul 13, 2011,