#1
I am not sure what is going on with this riff im learning...but for almost the whole song the only sharps (or flats) i am hitting are A# (or Bb) and C# (or Db). The rest are natural notes (E, F, G, D etc).

However, since there are D notes in this song and riff, I am assuming its in a sharp key rather than a flat key because Db and D does not really make sense?

I know my circle of fifths...and I dont know a key that has A# and C# and thats it. Can someone tell me what is going on with this? Are these just accidentals being hit? Maybe an accidental (the C#/Db) in the key of F major since there is a Bb chord being played as well?

Thankyou!
#3
Quote by vjferrara
What are the chord changes?


The chords are powerchords but they are A5, Bb5, C5, Bb5, A5 in that order
#4
The D harmonic minor scale has an A# and a C# in it. You might be somewhere there.
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#5
Quote by silhouettica
The D harmonic minor scale has an A# and a C# in it. You might be somewhere there.


Thankyou so much! I really need to learn my harmonic minor scales, those ones always stump me. Thanks again!
#6
Quote by dvm25
The chords are powerchords but they are A5, Bb5, C5, Bb5, A5 in that order


Where does the song sound resolved?

It's likely the A5 (but listen and figure it out, don't let me tell you what it is or isn't.) If so, use the A minor scale, but substitute the appropriate accidentals in when you play over the Bb5.
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#7
Quote by silhouettica
The D harmonic minor scale has an A# and a C# in it. You might be somewhere there.


Technically it is incorrect to say that the key of d minor has an A#, but rather it would be a B flat, but whatever.
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#8
I'm going to put my foot in my mouth just once but it sounds like if it resolves on A, that it's using the 1 b2 and b3 of a Phrygian scale and just harmonizing it with 5ths. It very well could be that it's similar to what Flaming Lips have done on one of their songs.

Best,

Sean
#9
Quote by Sean0913
I'm going to put my foot in my mouth just once but it sounds like if it resolves on A, that it's using the 1 b2 and b3 of a Phrygian scale and just harmonizing it with 5ths. It very well could be that it's similar to what Flaming Lips have done on one of their songs.

Best,

Sean


I'm going to go the other direction and say it's in C major. Chord progression Am - Bb - C - Bb. Bb is borrowed from the parallel minor.
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#10
Some good guesses from Alan and Sean: this is why the TS needs to tell us where this thing resolves.
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#11
Quote by soviet_ska
Some good guesses from Alan and Sean: this is why the TS needs to tell us where this thing resolves.


For sure - we can only speculate.
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#12
Quote by AlanHB
I'm going to go the other direction and say it's in C major. Chord progression Am - Bb - C - Bb. Bb is borrowed from the parallel minor.


Where's the resolution to C?

If these are the only "background elements" I'm staying with mine. If it adds any other chords, I'm siding with you more, but on A minor as the key because of the b3, and the b2 as an accidental.

That's why I suggested that. I also wouldn't say it "moves very far" as a piece if that's all it does, and more resembles a vamp than a progression.

Best,

Sean
#13
sorry guys...the progression seems like it resolves to the A powerchord...but I dont understand how it can be written in A minor if it has 2 sharps or flats...can someone clear that up?

ALSO that A, Bb, C progression is the intro...

the riff im more interested actually has a different chord progression behind it but the Bb is still there. Can someone help me with this particular thing? Does this one resolve to D?


Lead Guitar
E|---------------------------------------------------------|
B|--------------------------------------10-----------------|
G|-9-9----9-10--9----9-10--9----9-10-12----12-10-9-------9-|
D|-----12---------12---------12--------------------12-11---|
A|---------------------------------------------------------|
E|---------------------------------------------------------|

E|--------------------------------------------------------|
B|--------10---------10---------10-10-11-10----10---------|
G|-9----9-----9----9-----9----9-------------12----12-10-9-|
D|---12---------12---------12-----------------------------|
A|--------------------------------------------------------|
E|--------------------------------------------------------|

E|----------------------------------------------|
B|-------------------------------------------10-|
G|-10-9--------10-9--------10-9-------9-9-------|
D|------12----------12----------12-10-----12----|
A|---------12----------12-----------------------|
E|----------------------------------------------|

Rhythm Guitar
E|------------------------------------|
B|------------------------------------|
G|------------------------------------|
D|-7--3--5--7--7--3--5--7--7--3--5--7-|
A|-5--1--5--7--5--1--5--7--5--1--3--5-|
E|-------3--5--------3--5-------------|
Last edited by dvm25 at Jul 11, 2011,
#14
Quote by Sean0913
Where's the resolution to C?


I've gone with my interpretation for the following reasons.

1. Usually in threads like this the TS only talks about the chords he is soloing over, and neglects to mention the other 20 or so chords surrounding it.

2. I wanted to disagree with you, just to make it interesting.
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#15
Quote by AlanHB
I've gone with my interpretation for the following reasons.

1. Usually in threads like this the TS only talks about the chords he is soloing over, and neglects to mention the other 20 or so chords surrounding it.

2. I wanted to disagree with you, just to make it interesting.


Just for that I'm going to agree with you!

Best,

Sean
#16
Quote by dvm25
sorry guys...the progression seems like it resolves to the A powerchord...but I dont understand how it can be written in A minor if it has 2 sharps or flats...can someone clear that up?


Great, now we can help you. To establish a key, you just need to have resolution to a particular tonic: in this case, it resolves to A. As you noticed, the natural minor scale has only naturals. However, if you used only diatonic progressions, you would start running out of options somewhere down the line. There's a whole art to chromatic harmony, which is essentialy chords that in some way deviate from the diatonic scales.

Using a b2 (Bb in the key of A) is a fairly common alteration in minor keys. Notice if you fully harmonize the natural minor scale, you get a diminished chord on the second degree--B* in A minor, or ii*. This isn't a pleasant-sounding in many contexts, so many composers use a b2 as it combines with the 4 and b6 of the minor scale to become a major chord, which is easier to work in to progressions.

To establish a key, you need a proper resolution, called a cadence. A bII in a minor key generally acts as a pre-dominant chord. When moving it back to the Am, it creates a weaker cadence than using a V or vii*, but a workable one nonetheless.
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#17
Quote by soviet_ska
Great, now we can help you. To establish a key, you just need to have resolution to a particular tonic: in this case, it resolves to A. As you noticed, the natural minor scale has only naturals. However, if you used only diatonic progressions, you would start running out of options somewhere down the line. There's a whole art to chromatic harmony, which is essentialy chords that in some way deviate from the diatonic scales.

Using a b2 (Bb in the key of A) is a fairly common alteration in minor keys. Notice if you fully harmonize the natural minor scale, you get a diminished chord on the second degree--B* in A minor, or ii*. This isn't a pleasant-sounding in many contexts, so many composers use a b2 as it combines with the 4 and b6 of the minor scale to become a major chord, which is easier to work in to progressions.

To establish a key, you need a proper resolution, called a cadence. A bII in a minor key generally acts as a pre-dominant chord. When moving it back to the Am, it creates a weaker cadence than using a V or vii*, but a workable one nonetheless.


Thankyou! That was explained really well! I am just wondering about that Db then...why did the composer of this song use that Db in that solo run then???
#18
Quote by dvm25
sorry guys...the progression seems like it resolves to the A powerchord...but I dont understand how it can be written in A minor if it has 2 sharps or flats...can someone clear that up?

ALSO that A, Bb, C progression is the intro...

the riff im more interested actually has a different chord progression behind it but the Bb is still there. Can someone help me with this particular thing? Does this one resolve to D?


I tried noodling around with those tabs you posted and they generally seem to pull to D. Assuming the part is in D minor, it's using the major seventh derived from the D harmonic minor as an accidental sometimes. It's worth a note that he still does use the minor seventh native to the D natural minor.

EDIT: I might be dead wrong though. Hearing the song would help.
E:-6
B:-0
G:-5
D:-6
A:-0
E:-3
Last edited by Flibo at Jul 11, 2011,
#19
Quote by Flibo
I tried noodling around with those tabs you posted and they generally seem to pull to D. Assuming the part is in D minor, it's using the major seventh derived from the D harmonic minor as an accidental sometimes. It's worth a note that he still does use the minor seventh native to the D natural minor.

EDIT: I might be dead wrong though. Hearing the song would help.


Yes, I'm fairly certain it's in D minor.
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