#1
Hey there!

I am planning on doing a new Steve Vai song from my new purchased album real illusions.
There is 1 track named under it all.
there are some parts in this song that to my ears just are atonal.
I'm pretty sure actually.
Where do I need to pay attention at?
I mean like in a tonal song I just check the chords and tones, I have my key and that is the theory it has.
But in atonal I have to do something different.
And that is.......(you guys fill in from here please)
Cordialement, Liam.
#3
"But in atonal I have to do something different."

Yes... you put a roll of toilet paper next to it and compare which is more useful...

If archeo were here I'm sure he'd help you analyse it... don't know who else here does asstonal music... sorry I couldn't help
#4
Quote by griffRG7321
Just listening, it's not atonal.

These are the most radical intervals I have ever heard.
I don't even know what radical means but I meant big and heavy.
Are you sure it's not atonal?
#5
...yeah this is definitely not atonal. Atonal means it is not based on any key or mode, and this is definitely minor someting or other. Key changes? Accidentals? Sure. But not Atonal.
#7
Quote by scimitar_255
...yeah this is definitely not atonal. Atonal means it is not based on any key or mode, and this is definitely minor someting or other. Key changes? Accidentals? Sure. But not Atonal.

OH SHIT!
This is going to be one of the most hard songs I will ever analyse in my life.
Not only because it's 8 minutes long also alot of key changes and accidentals.
Shit man.
#8
Quote by Keth
How far in are these sections you're talking about?

Could you please explain what you mean with how far in?
#12
I don't really listen to Vai, so I don't know the song...the only thing I can really contribute is I know that extended use of augmented chords are said to "suspend tonality", i.e. obscure the tonal center due to their lack of tonal definition. Is he using augmented chords/whole-tone ideas? I could see there being some confusion if this is the issue.
Nothing that is worthwhile in life will ever come easy.
#13
just please read the book i sent you...its a free, online, formal book written by a highly respected composer, theorist, and professor who knows what he's talking about, there's absolutely no reason not to read it...
#14
Quote by TMVATDI
just please read the book i sent you...its a free, online, formal book written by a highly respected composer, theorist, and professor who knows what he's talking about, there's absolutely no reason not to read it...

But reading is hard!

just curious, what did you send him?
#15
Quote by nmitchell076
But reading is hard!

just curious, what did you send him?

walter piston's harmony
#16
Quote by liampje
OH SHIT!
This is going to be one of the most hard songs I will ever analyse in my life.
Not only because it's 8 minutes long also alot of key changes and accidentals.
Shit man.


If there's key changes and accidentals, it's not atonal.

How about you analyse something a lot simpler first, you failed at getting all the chords in a Bob Dylan song last time so maybe it's time to go back to simple folk songs again.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#18
Quote by Life Is Brutal

And to that atonal composition above by Alban Berg, is it bad that I keep getting snags of beauty out of the piece?


Yeah, Berg's got some good stuff. I haven't really paid enough attention to Berg.

I don't know if you like orchestral music, but check out this little gem from Webern (Symphonie, Op. 21): http://
#20
The song sounds a lot like Mastodon.
^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^


"To know the truth of history is to realize its ultimate myth and its inevitable ambiguity." Everything is made up and the facts don't matter.


MUSIC THEORY LINK
#21
Quote by TMVATDI
just please read the book i sent you...its a free, online, formal book written by a highly respected composer, theorist, and professor who knows what he's talking about, there's absolutely no reason not to read it...

Never recieved it.
My new mail is telefoonmannn@gmail.com.
Could you please mail it again?
#22
Quote by AlanHB
If there's key changes and accidentals, it's not atonal.

How about you analyse something a lot simpler first, you failed at getting all the chords in a Bob Dylan song last time so maybe it's time to go back to simple folk songs again.

There is only one note different from C major and A minor 7th.
I can't hear it if it's late at night and the volume should be low.
I have neighboors too you know.
Haven't you got a simple rock or hard rock song?
#23
Quote by liampje
Haven't you got a simple rock or hard rock song?


anything by the ramones keeps me busy for a while.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#24
haha good true sean

yeah berg's stuff is great, i don't like some atonal stuff, but berg is a brilliant composer. he even calls into question full blown atonality in some ways because all of his tone rows are based on thirds or 5ths and stuff, so even though they use all twelve tones, they outline certain things that our ears can relate to, something schoenberg and other avoided like the plague!
#25
Quote by Harmosis
Yeah, Berg's got some good stuff. I haven't really paid enough attention to Berg.

I don't know if you like orchestral music, but check out this little gem from Webern (Symphonie, Op. 21): http://


I love orchestral music, but your link doesn't work and I don't feel obligated enough to try and find it.
#26
Quote by liampje
Never recieved it.
My new mail is telefoonmannn@gmail.com.
Could you please mail it again?

i didnt email it to you, its in a comment to your thread about shred licks. but here it is again:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2187678/Walter-Piston-Harmony

it doesn't get into atonality (as far as i know, im not finished with it), but it talks about music theory as a science...exactly what it is. it analyzes the harmony of tonal music and even explains modality to you at one point. that's right, modes, your favorite. you have to know this fundamental harmony stuff before the crazy stuff you want to get into.
#27
U srs bro? atonal? u cnt do et?

But in all seriousness, I probably couldn't because I wouldn't want to.

I think you should try doing easier songs. Try some Rise Against. And not just the guitars, also try things like bass.

Songs by them that could be fun to do: Heaven Knows, Life Less Frightening, The First Drop, umm.... actually, the entire CD Siren Songs of the Counter Culture...

Never really listened to Vai, so I don't know what to recommend related to him...
Understand nothing, in order to learn everything.

Quote by liampje
I can write a coherent tune ... But 3/4? I play rock, not polka.
#28
Quote by TMVATDI
i didnt email it to you, its in a comment to your thread about shred licks. but here it is again:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2187678/Walter-Piston-Harmony

it doesn't get into atonality (as far as i know, im not finished with it), but it talks about music theory as a science...exactly what it is. it analyzes the harmony of tonal music and even explains modality to you at one point. that's right, modes, your favorite. you have to know this fundamental harmony stuff before the crazy stuff you want to get into.

I aready know your trying to let me read it by saying there are modes in it but they really aren't,are you?
EDIT:I'm readin' it anyways.
Last edited by liampje at Jul 14, 2011,
#29
I know this may seem silly... but if i were to listen to a piece of music.... how would i identify it as atonal? It wont be in any key or...
#30
Any good examples of atonal music? If im completely honest i dont THINK i've ever heard any. And i dont think i really understand. But im probably not meant to lol.
#33
Quote by liampje
I aready know your trying to let me read it by saying there are modes in it but they really aren't,are you?
EDIT:I'm readin' it anyways.

there's a section called "modality vs. tonality" or something like that, but don't skip to it, read the whole thing and don't let any previous assumptions about music get in the way.