#1
Neil Young - Down by the River

How do I know what key the rhythm guitar's progression is so I can adjust my key accordingly?
The illegality of cannabis is outrageous, an impediment to full utilization of a drug which helps produce the serenity and insight, sensitivity and fellowship so desperately needed in this increasingly mad and dangerous world.
- Carl Sagan
#3
On what chord does the progression feel "at home?"
^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^


"To know the truth of history is to realize its ultimate myth and its inevitable ambiguity." Everything is made up and the facts don't matter.


MUSIC THEORY LINK
#4
Ive never heard "at home" used before what exactly do you mean?
The illegality of cannabis is outrageous, an impediment to full utilization of a drug which helps produce the serenity and insight, sensitivity and fellowship so desperately needed in this increasingly mad and dangerous world.
- Carl Sagan
#5
It's where the chord progression feels resolved, where the chord doesn't want to pull to another one.
^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^


"To know the truth of history is to realize its ultimate myth and its inevitable ambiguity." Everything is made up and the facts don't matter.


MUSIC THEORY LINK
#6
well the first part is just two chords Em7 - A
then there's a G-D-D-A progression. not sure on what exactly to call that part of the song

Would the scale contain G D A and E?
The illegality of cannabis is outrageous, an impediment to full utilization of a drug which helps produce the serenity and insight, sensitivity and fellowship so desperately needed in this increasingly mad and dangerous world.
- Carl Sagan
#7
Quote by SKArface McDank
well the first part is just two chords Em7 - A
then there's a G-D-D-A progression. not sure on what exactly to call that part of the song

Would the scale contain G D A and E?


Are you trying to figure out what scale to use to solo over this?
or are you going for a theoretical analysis?

if you're looking for the scale to use...
Neil is using E minor pentatonic. ( E minor blues will work, E dorian will work )

if you're looking for theoretical analysis, I would suggest that you need a better foundation before analyzing something like this.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jul 12, 2011,
#8
theoretical I guess, Ive heard songs that have a 2 chord rhythm and a solo over it and I want to figure out how to use that song 'format' I guess
The illegality of cannabis is outrageous, an impediment to full utilization of a drug which helps produce the serenity and insight, sensitivity and fellowship so desperately needed in this increasingly mad and dangerous world.
- Carl Sagan
Last edited by SKArface McDank at Jul 12, 2011,
#9
Quote by SKArface McDank
theoretical I guess, Ive heard songs that have a 2 chord rhythm and a solo over it and I want to figure out how to use that song 'format' I guess


Well, I'm sure someone will be eager to analyze it for you. Not me though, sorry!
shred is gaudy music
#10
Em7 A, G, D, Cmaj7 and Bm are used in the version I play.

If you plug that in to the MmmMMmDim formula, the key of D works pretty well. I'm really newb at this, so I'm just taking this as an exercise for my own growth, perhaps someone else can comment with more clarity.

E Dorian would work well for something in the key of D, too. At my lesson last week, my guitar teacher said that generally, the dorian mode of the second for any key works well.
Last edited by Commodor 64 at Jul 12, 2011,
#11
Quote by SKArface McDank
Neil Young - Down by the River

How do I know what key the rhythm guitar's progression is so I can adjust my key accordingly?


I have to echo the second response. Some things, you earn the right to "know" or understand. Learn theory and you'll have understanding about what you play. It makes sense doesn't it?

Its very hard to convey understanding to those without a foundation. By putting in the work, you can understand and analyze what you are doing. It's a lot better than coming up zero's and having to ask someone else that's done the work, to give you a simple answer.

Have you ever thought about getting a teacher?

Best,

Sean
#12
Quote by Sean0913
I have to echo the second response. Some things, you earn the right to "know" or understand. Learn theory and you'll have understanding about what you play. It makes sense doesn't it?

Its very hard to convey understanding to those without a foundation. By putting in the work, you can understand and analyze what you are doing. It's a lot better than coming up zero's and having to ask someone else that's done the work, to give you a simple answer.

Have you ever thought about getting a teacher?

Best,

Sean

Perhaps you could find it in your heart to share some knowledge with us, lazy, unworthy, lower-class guitar citizens. You know, since this is a guitar discussion forum. Strangely enough some of us come here seeking advice and enlightenment.

Anyways, to the OP: I'm slowly learning a little bit of theory at my weekly guitar lessons. So take this with a grain of salt.

When I see a song, and I don't know what key it's in (and therefore do not know what kind of lead work to do), I try to figure out thusly:

1. If there's an F Chord, it's probably in C. There are no sharps or flats in the key of C.
2. There are two patterns that you'll find useful. The first is the tone/semitone (whole/half-step). Each fret is a half step. There's a half step between E and F and B and C, the rest are whole.
3. The pattern for a major scale goes: whole whole half whole whole whole half. It is always thus. You'll see this as:

W W H W W W H
C D E F G A B C

see, the halfs are between E and F for the Key of C.

In G, you would have (I used the dashes for spacing, the number of dashes is not relevant):
--W-W-H--W--W-W---H
G--A--B--C--D--E--F#---G

See how that works? There's a whole step between the 6th (E) and 7th (F). Since there's only half step between E and F, you have to go a half step above F, which is F#.

4. Now, for chords, there is also a pattern to superimpose on the WWHWWWH form. It goes Major minor minor Major Major minor diminished 5th or MmmMMmDim. The diminished is seldom used, but it means you take the 5th note and drop it a half step. But don't worry about that for now.

Take that pattern for the key of C Major and you get:

C Dm Em F G Am Bdim: so the 1, 4 and 5 are C F G (12 bar blues is 1, 4, 5 pattern), so if someone told you 12 Bar blues in C you know you'll be playing C, F, and G.

Remember, you have the WWHWWWH pattern too, so in G the chords would be:
--W----W----H--W--W---W--------H
G---Am--Bm--C---D--Em--F#dim--G


I'm not good at doing this in my head yet. So sometimes I have to write it down. When I'm at a jam party or something, and someone doesn't call out the chords, I try to watch their hands, and I generally can make out a few chords, figure out what key the song is in (it's nearly always a blues pattern, in C G A or E). Then I apply what little lead I know, e.g., the dorian mode on the second (start the dorian pattern on an A note on the low E string if the key is in G) or play Em pentatonic pattern on the 12th fret, since E is the relative minor of G.
Last edited by Commodor 64 at Jul 13, 2011,
#13
Hi Commodor,


I think if you look at it from the "give an man a fish" versus "teach a man to fish" perspective, that my post had advice and enlightenment; what was missing was the free lesson "give a man a fish". I don't do those. Looks like you provided that. The thing is it's also provided on several dozen free websites also. I'm sure that in my 2 years here I've seen people like you post it a couple of dozen times. Initiative to learn, even a little bit is a good thing to have.

Now how I teach it, isn't out there for free on the internet, and I don't give it away to those who show no initiative to invest in it, because that which costs people nothing, to them it is also worth nothing. I do however, mentor people for free, and I've already done that hundreds of times since I've been here.

By the way, your advice for the F chord, is a good start, but realize that you are in the beginning stages of theory. As such you haven't been confronted with all the tools to answer his question yet either.

For example, if F is in the opening to Freebird, is it in the key of C also? No.

It sounds like you have been enlightened though, you have a teacher. Strange that you'd buck the same suggestion to the TS.

Best,

Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at Jul 13, 2011,