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#1
---- Will update based on advice and eventually add NGD! ----

Topic: I want a setup with amazing tone to entertain myself but eventually I would like to create and share music.

-Budget?
$2500 amp $2500 for my guitar max.

-Genre?
Here's the Tone I'm most in love with: Link to 720p video of tone.

-New or Used?
New or extremely like new.

-Home or Gig?
Both. I need to be able to play quiet enough to not wake sleeping people but I want an amp/speaker with the capability to thud against my chest so I can really feel the music even when playing with a drummer.

-Location?
United States

-Current Gear?
Alvarez Acoustic Dreadnought and some other guitars.
------------------------------

-Amps suggested by thread:
Laney GH50/100L's.
Axe FX II + Mesa Stereo 2
Mesa Mark V with 2x12

***UPDATE: 7/15***
Wow, I just watched a couple of videos of the "making of" of some of Mesa amps. The Mark V with 2x12 Mesa speakers is winning the contest for my affection so far.
Link to a "Making of" Video

***UPDATE: 7/17***
Oh man! Just watched a video demonstrating the tonal capabilities of a Mark V. wow.
Clean Channel and getting into distorted 2nd.
Part 2. 3rd Channel and mix

This totally reads like an advertisement... But it's not... Oh well.




(mine will be with a stop-tail bridge)
Last edited by Daedalus42 at Jul 18, 2011,
#2
Definitely the Custom 24 if that's what you are looking at.

Opeth use Laney GH50/100L's (I happen to have one myself) so if you can find one of them then that would be a good option, but they are only single channel.
Jackson DK2M
ESP LTD M-200FM w/Tone Zone + PAF Pro
Ibanez RG7321
Digitech Whammy IV
Digitech GSP1101
Furman M-10 LxE
Peavey 6505
ISP Decimator
#3
Axe FX II + Mesa Stereo 2:Ninety power amp?
Quote by Blompcube
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#4
Quote by ragingkitty
Axe FX II + Mesa Stereo 2:Ninety power amp?


+Infinity

It would force you to reduce your budget on the guitar a bit, but its not like you'd need a $2,500 guitar, unless you're planning on going full custom.

Even if you plan on going full custom, Carvin does custom orders at a relatively cheap price.

Edit: oh definitely get the custom 24 if that's what you want.
Last edited by Syriel at Jul 12, 2011,
#7
Quote by stykerwolf
Because the AxeFx nails almost every tone imaginable


Doesn't it put out a very digital sounding tone?
#8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91lrZUVuQH4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf6F88Sr8gA&feature=related

even though these are metal tones it might give you an idea of what you are getting yourself into with the axe fx
Live Rig
Michael Kelly Custom Shop Plum Telecaster
Michael Kelly Custom Shop Plum Patriot


EVH 5153 50w
Jet City 2x12
Custom Board

It is NOT trash metal it is tHrash metal...get it right
#9
I've always heard the argument that when your talking about awesome tone it's all in the tube amps not modeling digital amps. Is that in the past now?

What I'm seeing with research is that you can get basically any tone with this kit. The question is will they sound as crunchy and satisfying as if you had the whole setup analog and through a tube amp set?
Last edited by Daedalus42 at Jul 15, 2011,
#10
most of the argument of tube vs modeling IMO revolves around personal preference. people just cant see past the fact that a digital modeler just fit some peoples needs better than a tube amp. new modeling tech. like the eleven rack and axe fx and even the line 6 vetta and hd floor pod things are pretty spot on with the analog things they are trying to sound like.

to me it boils down to what you want and what you are going to do with it. if i had the money id get the axe fx with a slammin power amp couple that up with a mesa cab and call it a day. i mean really you essentially have every amp and sound you could ever want or need in one package. but thats just me.
Live Rig
Michael Kelly Custom Shop Plum Telecaster
Michael Kelly Custom Shop Plum Patriot


EVH 5153 50w
Jet City 2x12
Custom Board

It is NOT trash metal it is tHrash metal...get it right
#11
Quote by sammo_boi
Definitely the Custom 24 if that's what you are looking at.


Yeah, Custom 24 with a stop-tail bridge.


Quote by sammo_boi
Opeth use Laney GH50/100L's (I happen to have one myself) so if you can find one of them then that would be a good option


What size speaker cab would you recommend?


Quote by sammo_boi
but they are only single channel.


What are the pro's and cons of being single channel?
#12
stretch a bit and axefx, with power amp and cab plus a prs custom 24. theres one of the most versatile rigs that you can make
#13
Quote by Seanthesheep
stretch a bit and axefx, with power amp and cab plus a prs custom 24. theres one of the most versatile rigs that you can make


I'm not sold on digital.

1.Resale value- Axe II probably won't be as appealing in the modeling effects industry 10 or 40 years from now if I decide to sell/upgrade

2. Tone- It seems to do all things okay but nothing truly amazing

3. My budget- I don't want to go over 5k
#14
well how about the mesa mark V? that amp came to my mind when I watched your link.

btw you can get the combo with a V30 speaker then get an extension cabinet if you ever need it
#15
Quote by Seanthesheep
well how about the mesa mark V? that amp came to my mind when I watched your link.



Similar tone to the Laney?
#16
The Laney is a good choice. Either the GH a VH100R would keep you pretty happy. 2x12 with V30's probably, maybe an Avatar.
Gilchrist custom
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Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#17
Quote by Seanthesheep
btw you can get the combo with a V30 speaker then get an extension cabinet if you ever need it


Is it cheaper to get a combo amp or just more convenient to move?


Quote by Cathbard
The Laney is a good choice. Either the GH a VH100R would keep you pretty happy. 2x12 with V30's probably, maybe an Avatar.



With the risk of sounding like a total noob: What does the V30 do? Why do you suggest an Avatar cab?
#18
well the combo comes pretty close to 2500$ new, so does the head, but with the head you still need a cabinet, and a good qaulity 2x12 cab can go from 500$-1000+$

and V30= Vintage 30. its a 60 watt speaker made by celestion and is liek the industry standard peaker for heavy music and the go to speaker for a lot of people and it pairs well with many amps
#19
Quote by Seanthesheep
well the combo comes pretty close to 2500$ new, so does the head, but with the head you still need a cabinet, and a good qaulity 2x12 cab can go from 500$-1000+$


How is it possible to get a combo amp for the same price as the head? What's the benefit of getting a separate head since they basically give you that speaker free?
#20
The V30's will give you a more modern sorta tone. I suggest Avatar cabs because everybody that has them loves them and they are pretty cheap. I haven't used Avatar myself but I trust the opinions of people like 311 who do use them.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#21
Quote by Cathbard
The V30's will give you a more modern sorta tone. I suggest Avatar cabs because everybody that has them loves them and they are pretty cheap. I haven't used Avatar myself but I trust the opinions of people like 311 who do use them.


How would it stack up to the ones Mesa sells?
#22
Umm about the head vs combo thing... i think it may be like 100-200 tops more for the combo, but most of the money is for the circuitry. making the casing bigger/ popping a speaker in there isnt that big of a deal.
#23
Quote by Daedalus42
Yeah, Custom 24 with a stop-tail bridge.


D000000d



That's exactly what I want. Only problem is that I want a rotary selector instead of the current 5-way blade pup selector.

Quote by Daedalus42
I've always heard the argument that when your talking about awesome tone it's all in the tube amps not modeling digital amps. Is that in the past now?

Edit: What I'm seeing with research is that you can get basically any tone with this kit. The question is will they sound as crunchy and satisfying as if you had the whole setup analog and through a tube amp set?


Its all a matter of preference. If at the end of the day, you must have tubes, then go for tubes.

However, you need to try and consider the Axe FX, quite a number of professional artists use it - Steve Vai included. The tone of the Axe FX is quite astounding because of the way they model the amps.

What Fractal Audio does is that they take individual components of the amp (individual tubes, caps etc) and model each component and how it'd react under varying situations.

Then they take all these individual algorithms, and actually model the amp in its entirety. So when a signal is sent through the amp model, it will be as though its going through an actual amp.

Quote by Daedalus42
I'm not sold on digital.

1.Resale value- Axe II probably won't be as appealing in the modeling effects industry 10 or 40 years from now if I decide to sell/upgrade

2. Tone- It seems to do all things okay but nothing truly amazing

3. My budget- I don't want to go over 5k


1. IIRC its been close to 10 years between the AxeFX and the AxeFX II, and all the while since, Fractal Audio has been releasing new amp models and improving on existing amp models.

2. This is partly due to the versatility of the AxeFX. Any parameter you can imagine in an amp, the AxeFX can adjust. Want KT88s in an EL34 amp, you can.

And herein lies the problem, with so many parameters, quite a bit of tweaking is needed to get an excellent tone.

I've heard excellent and average AxeFX clips, its really quite a bit about the tweaking.
Quote by Blompcube
it's so cool to hate Gibson, even the federal Department of Justice hates them.

( )( )
( . .) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
C('')('') signature to help him gain world domination.
#24
Quote by ragingkitty
However, you need to try and consider the Axe FX, quite a number of professional artists use it - Steve Vai included. The tone of the Axe FX is quite astounding because of the way they model the amps.


Was it Opeth that led to this recommendation or should everybody in my price range go for one of these amps?
#25
Quote by Daedalus42
How would it stack up to the ones Mesa sells?

I'll try to send somebody that actually owns one in here.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#26
^

I'd say the Avatar cabs are close in construction to say a Mesa, Orange, Marshall, Framus, etc. Maybe a bit less but not by much.




They use 13 ply, voidless Baltic birch, all metal handles, nickle corner protects, grills are screwed on, etc. See more specs on their site. I had a Premier Traditional 212 with a Celestion G12H30 and Classic Lead 80. I sold the cab to gregs1020 to fund my Splawn cab - and I also recommend Splawn. Some of the best. Probably up there with Mills, Emperor, Port City, etc. (but I have no experience with these)


http://avatarspeakers.com/

also check out their Hellatone speakers. They are broken in Celestion V30s or G12H30s that cost less. What is not to like about that.
Last edited by 311ZOSOVHJH at Jul 13, 2011,
#28
Quote by Daedalus42
Was it Opeth that led to this recommendation or should everybody in my price range go for one of these amps?


Nope not really Opeth. I'm just highlighting a possibility in terms of unparalleled processing power and versatility. I think in terms of sonic capabilities, AxeFX occupies a space as one of the more coveted purchases on UG.

Also, if you want a good cab, you should definitely consider Kranks. Don't judge them based on the rep of their amps. Their cabs are solid, they use wood panels rather than plywood for their cabs.
Quote by Blompcube
it's so cool to hate Gibson, even the federal Department of Justice hates them.

( )( )
( . .) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
C('')('') signature to help him gain world domination.
#29
Quote by ragingkitty
Nope not really Opeth. I'm just highlighting a possibility in terms of unparalleled processing power and versatility. I think in terms of sonic capabilities, AxeFX occupies a space as one of the more coveted purchases on UG.



I'm assuming you use/want one?
#30
Quote by Daedalus42
I'm assuming you use/want one?


Used to. However, I still recognize its tonal potential.
Quote by Blompcube
it's so cool to hate Gibson, even the federal Department of Justice hates them.

( )( )
( . .) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
C('')('') signature to help him gain world domination.
#31
Quote by sammo_boi


Opeth use Laney GH50/100L's (I happen to have one myself) so if you can find one of them then that would be a good option, but they are only single channel.





Fred uses a Blackstar S1 w/ the Axe FX just for effects - no Distortions.
While Mikael uses the GH/Vh100 amps set clean and uses the Axe FX for his dirt. Previously, they used Gt-6s as their primary gain.

Not saying that you can't get that tone any otherway, its just what Opeth does.
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Last edited by silly hats at Jul 13, 2011,
#32
If I went for a tube option like the Laney GH50/100L or the Mesa Mark V and a 2x12 would I be able to get tones like Opeth and Dream Theater as well as Led Zeppelin and maybe Warren Haynes type sounds? Or would it be more limited?
#33
I can't speak for the Laney, however the Mesa MkV will definitely be able to get you within the range of most tones for any music you want. The only problem you'll have is that you won't be able to replicate the exact nuances and feel of the amps used

If you're talking about just the genre, the MkV will definitely be able to get you the tones of almost any genre (short of sludge / doom metal).

If you want a closer approximation of the amps, you're gonna need a modeler to model the exact amps used. Short of getting the exact amps used.
Quote by Blompcube
it's so cool to hate Gibson, even the federal Department of Justice hates them.

( )( )
( . .) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
C('')('') signature to help him gain world domination.
#34
Quote by ragingkitty
I can't speak for the Laney, however the Mesa MkV will definitely be able to get you within the range of most tones for any music you want. The only problem you'll have is that you won't be able to replicate the exact nuances and feel of the amps used


I see from your profile that you have a Mark V, have you ever tried to get an Opeth type tone? Will you?
#35
Quote by Daedalus42
I see from your profile that you have a Mark V, have you ever tried to get an Opeth type tone? Will you?


Give me a specific portion of a song and I can try for you. I've never really listened to Opeth, so I can't say.
Quote by Blompcube
it's so cool to hate Gibson, even the federal Department of Justice hates them.

( )( )
( . .) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
C('')('') signature to help him gain world domination.
#36
Quote by ragingkitty
Give me a specific portion of a song and I can try for you. I've never really listened to Opeth, so I can't say.


Idk... Did you check out that link in OP?
#37
Quote by Daedalus42
If I went for a tube option like the Laney GH50/100L or the Mesa Mark V and a 2x12 would I be able to get tones like Opeth and Dream Theater as well as Led Zeppelin and maybe Warren Haynes type sounds? Or would it be more limited?

not really, the mk-v has three channels, all of which have three modes, each varying in gain and tone. on the other hand, the gh would probably be less versatile, as its single channel. thats not to say that there's a lot that can be tweaked though. to answer your first question, considering petrucci uses a mk-v, yes.
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#38
Quote by dtmaiden
. on the other hand, the gh would probably be less versatile, as its single channel.


I'm guessing that's a factor into why it's half as expensive?
#39
Quote by Daedalus42
Idk... Did you check out that link in OP?


I don't have to try, I know that you can easily get that with the MkV's Channel 3 on the IIC+ mode, because my high gain tone is very close to the tone I'm hearing on the vid.
Quote by Blompcube
it's so cool to hate Gibson, even the federal Department of Justice hates them.

( )( )
( . .) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
C('')('') signature to help him gain world domination.
#40
Quote by ragingkitty
I don't have to try, I know that you can easily get that with the MkV's Channel 3 on the IIC+ mode, because my high gain tone is very close to the tone I'm hearing on the vid.


Awesome That's music to my ears Kitty!

I'm doing a little Opeth project band in October so that tone is defiantly needed.
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