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#1
Pit, what do you think about illegal immigrants? Do you sympathize with them? Do you think they should be deported back to where they came from? Here's a few questions to steer conversation in the right direction.

1) A few people I know say things such as "Well they're only going for the hard physical labor jobs, let them stay and work". Is this true? Should we?

2) What about the controversial Arizona legislation that allows officers to stop suspected illegal immigrants (read latino's) and ask for identification? Should this law be eliminated?

3) How about Cuban immigrants who, via make-shift raft, cross the ocean to try to get to Florida? Should border patrol make them turn around mid journey back into the sea?

4) Some people argue illegal immigrants help the economy by raising tax revenue and widening the cheap labor pool. Other's argue that illegals fill up the prisons and contribute to crime. Does the good outweigh the bad?

Thoughts pit?
#2
I think this thread is a bad idea.
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#4
I smell a shitstorm abrewin'...


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#6
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seconded

Thirded
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#8
Yes, they should be deported. There's a 12 month rule to apply for citizenship, maximum, and that's plenty enough time. If you can't get your shit together and actually live in this country, then **** off. I have no problem with foreign workers, as long as they aren't pikey little cunts scrounging off benefits and the like.
#9
If they're willing to risk their lives to get into a country to work and achieve then yes, they should be allowed. In fact, I believe all immigrants should have to pass various challenges, similar to Total Wipeout

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Last edited by maiden_man_666 at Jul 12, 2011,
#11
Quote by maiden_man_666
If they're willing to risk their lives to get into a country to work and achieve then yes, they should be allowed. In fact, I believe all immigrants should have to pass various challenges, similar to Total Wipeout



We should make a reality show similar to Ninja Warrior, but a bit more difficult. All immigrants can try to run the course... and if they make it, they get in. That way we only get the strong ones. If you want to bring a baby in... you have to run the course with a baby on your back. Also, if you want to bring any possessions (family heirlooms) you have to carry that. I basically want to see a lady carrying a baby and a giant dining table run the ninja warrior course.
#12
Quote by ZanasCross
We should make a reality show similar to Ninja Warrior, but a bit more difficult. All immigrants can try to run the course... and if they make it, they get in. That way we only get the strong ones. If you want to bring a baby in... you have to run the course with a baby on your back. Also, if you want to bring any possessions (family heirlooms) you have to carry that. I basically want to see a lady carrying a baby and a giant dining table run the ninja warrior course.



Woah. When did you become one of us non fancy coloured name people?
#13
Quote by ZanasCross
We should make a reality show similar to Ninja Warrior, but a bit more difficult. All immigrants can try to run the course... and if they make it, they get in. That way we only get the strong ones. If you want to bring a baby in... you have to run the course with a baby on your back. Also, if you want to bring any possessions (family heirlooms) you have to carry that. I basically want to see a lady carrying a baby and a giant dining table run the ninja warrior course.


That sounds oddly familiar..
#15
There's a big difference between an illegal immigrant and a legal immigrant IMO
#16
Quote by J Mud
There's a big difference between an illegal immigrant and a legal immigrant IMO

Yes, one has the resources to be able to go through the process of legally entering and the other doesn't. Most of my family members are from another country and to get in here legally several of them had to provide proof of ownership of some type of property to prove they had the financial means to immigrate. It seems kind of iffy to me. Of course there are other ways to get here, like being sponsored by some company.
#17
Quote by Masamune
Yes, one has the resources to be able to go through the process of legally entering and the other doesn't. Most of my family members are from another country and to get in here legally several of them had to provide proof of ownership of some type of property to prove they had the financial means to immigrate. It seems kind of iffy to me. Of course there are other ways to get here, like being sponsored by some company.


Or seeking asylum. Which is possibly the biggest from of Immigration.
#18
Quote by SG_dave
Woah. When did you become one of us non fancy coloured name people?


When I started my PhD work a few years ago, I tried to quit. They wouldn't let me. After a year, I finally convinced them I was out. Now I'm just a regular shit head like everyone else.
#19
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Whoa.

I posted these same pics in that same order a while back about a thread.
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#20
Quote by ZanasCross
When I started my PhD work a few years ago, I tried to quit. They wouldn't let me. After a year, I finally convinced them I was out. Now I'm just a regular shit head like everyone else.


Oh right. Didn't know you'd gone on to do a PhD.
Gonna start introducing yourself as a doctor now?
#21
Quote by rockingamer2
Whoa.

I posted these same pics in that same order a while back about a thread.


Great minds think alike.
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#22
A great many people underestimate drastically how difficult it is to legally immigrate to certain countries (including the USA). It frequently is simply impossible for a great many people. However what annoys me more is the Right Wing Free Marketeers who forced poor countries to adopt free market practises and open their borders to US goods, but who support massive restrictions on immigration in a protectionist and very un-free market attempt to protect their indigenous service industries.
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#23
I ****ing hate all the dirty immigrants who come over here taking jobs. We need BRITISH JOBS for BRITISH PEOPLE. They don't even learn the language, it's like they've got NO RESPECT FOR ENGLAND!!! They take all our ****ing houses too and then pack themselves in. They all need to GO HOME

/
#24
Quote by willT08
I ****ing hate all the dirty immigrants who come over here taking jobs. We need BRITISH JOBS for BRITISH PEOPLE. They don't even learn the language, it's like they've got NO RESPECT FOR ENGLAND!!! They take all our ****ing houses too and then pack themselves in. They all need to GO HOME

/


sometimes I see us in a cymbal splash or in the sound of a car crash
#25
Well, considering that most illegals don't pay taxes like the rest of us, and suck off of government entitlement programs and benefit programs like no other, and then send all that money back to Mexico, I'm against illegal immigration.

I understand where the immigrants are coming from, but as a country we have to protect our self interests first, then cater to the needs of others, because if we have no castle, how can we protect everyone else?
#26
There's no such thing as an illegal human being. People can live anywhere on the globe they damn well please. Fuck your borders and fuck your xenophobia.
#27
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
#28
Quote by ethan_hanus
Well, considering that most illegals don't pay taxes like the rest of us, and suck off of government entitlement programs and benefit programs like no other, and then send all that money back to Mexico, I'm against illegal immigration.

I understand where the immigrants are coming from, but as a country we have to protect our self interests first, then cater to the needs of others, because if we have no castle, how can we protect everyone else?


So, someone born in your country is per definition more worthy of help and a good life than someone who's not?

I'm kind of bored with the national state and the borders. I was born in Sweden, I don't wave my flag around and hate people who are not swedes for that reason.

"we must protect our own country first" is just a pathetic borderline racism saying.
sometimes I see us in a cymbal splash or in the sound of a car crash
Last edited by JohnnyGenzale at Jul 12, 2011,
#29
I thought there was a law that if a Cuban can make it to U.S. shores we'll take them in and allow them citizenship? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong
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#30
Quote by ethan_hanus
Well, considering that most illegals don't pay taxes like the rest of us, and suck off of government entitlement programs and benefit programs like no other, and then send all that money back to Mexico, I'm against illegal immigration.

I understand where the immigrants are coming from, but as a country we have to protect our self interests first, then cater to the needs of others, because if we have no castle, how can we protect everyone else?


Source for your presumptions about tax dodging? Most papers I've read have said that the majority of illegal immigrants pay into social security and pay taxes because they came to America to live an American lifestyle, they just couldn't do that legally due to your immigration law.

There's no such thing as an illegal human being. People can live anywhere on the globe they damn well please. **** your borders and **** your xenophobia.


What I find more annoying is when even liberal news I've seen from the US calls them "aliens". Like, because they've entered your country illegally they aren't human anymore. One of the most successful bits of (can't think of the word, someone help me) making people think what your party wants so you agree with them.

Gah, that's painful to read.
#31
Indifferent.

The provide cheap local labor which is good, but they also use government services despite not being citizens or a decent percentage of them not being taxpayers. I'd say that's an acceptable tradeoff. People trying to give them more rights or people trying to keep them out are ****ing with that good balance.

Quote by willT08
Source for your presumptions about tax dodging? Most papers I've read have said that the majority of illegal immigrants pay into social security and pay taxes because they came to America to live an American lifestyle, they just couldn't do that legally due to your immigration law.


Some that use fraudulent identities may pay, if only to receive benefits that require extended investigation by the government like Medicaid and Medicare. It's a common racket, at least in South Florida.

Also, speaking as a latino who is here legally but surrounded by many latinos who are not, most of them are not here to "live the american lifestyle." They're here because the insanely small amount of money they make for fieldwork or construction or whatever else in the US is a six-figure salary by comparison to the broken economies of their home nations. For the most part they come here so that they can send money back home so their families can live comfortably, which is indeed admirable.
Last edited by Seref at Jul 12, 2011,
#32
Quote by JohnnyGenzale
So, someone born in your country is per definition more worthy of help and a good life than someone who's not?

I'm kind of bored with the national state and the borders. I was born in Sweden, I don't wave my flag around and hate people who are not swedes for that reason.

"we must protect our own country first" is just a pathetic borderline racism saying.


I agree with both of you. I have no problem with immigrants coming over as long as it's legal. But I understand why people come here illegally. They just want a better life for themselves. Where I live there is a problem with illegal immigrants crowding the schools and since they aren't paying taxes, the schools are underfunded.

Honestly I'm torn on the issue.
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#33
Quote by JohnnyGenzale
So, someone born in your country is per definition more worthy of help and a good life than someone who's not?

I'm kind of bored with the national state and the borders. I was born in Sweden, I don't wave my flag around and hate people who are not swedes for that reason.

"we must protect our own country first" is just a pathetic borderline racism saying.



Well, you have a lack of understanding of how a country works, money don't friken grow on trees. You can't help everyone, and you can't just let them rape and pillage your countries resources because you don't want to restrict them or hurt them, because that's what the majority of illegal immigrates are doing in America, earning tax free money, and sending it back to Mexico, thus, hurting Americas economy, since now there is less money in our system.

If you are taking money out of the system, and never paying taxes, eventually you run out of money, and your country becomes a desolate hole. So yeah, I'm going to protect myself before I start helping other people, so I can keep helping them, instead of using up all my resources and becoming just like them.

Oh, and you don't' know what racism means, don't even bother tying to apply it to this argument.
#34
Quote by ethan_hanus
Well, considering that most illegals don't pay taxes like the rest of us

Not according to the Congressional Budget Office, according to this report http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/87xx/doc8711/12-6-Immigration.pdf,
researchers estimate that between 50 percent and 75 percent of unauthorized immigrants pay federal, state, and local taxes.
For example:
B The SSA assumes that about half of unauthorized
immigrants pay Social Security taxes.
B Several of the states whose estimates CBO reviewed
used a model developed by the Institute for Taxation
and Economic Policy (ITEP) to determine state and
local taxes paid by unauthorized immigrants. ITEP
assumes a 50 percent compliance rate for income and
payroll taxes.

B Researchers from the Urban Institute, the Migration
Policy Institute, the Pew Hispanic Center, and the
Center for Immigration Studies have assumed a
55 percent compliance rate for income, Social Security, and Medicare taxes.

B As part of a larger study on migration, the Center for
Comparative Immigration Studies at the University of
California at San Diego conducted a survey of unauthorized immigrants and found that, in 2006, 75 percent had taxes withheld from their paychecks, filed tax
returns, or both.
#35
Quote by ethan_hanus
Well, considering that most illegals don't pay taxes like the rest of us, and suck off of government entitlement programs and benefit programs like no other, and then send all that money back to Mexico, I'm against illegal immigration.

I understand where the immigrants are coming from, but as a country we have to protect our self interests first, then cater to the needs of others, because if we have no castle, how can we protect everyone else?


wouldn't providing a legitimate path to legalization fix every problem you have with it?

Besides, America IS a country of immigrants.
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#37
The whole "illegal immigrants commit more crime" thing is a myth. I'm pretty sure they actually commit LESS crime than US citizens.
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#38
Quote by ethan_hanus
Well, you have a lack of understanding of how a country works, money don't friken grow on trees. You can't help everyone, and you can't just let them rape and pillage your countries resources because you don't want to restrict them or hurt them, because that's what the majority of illegal immigrates are doing in America, earning tax free money, and sending it back to Mexico, thus, hurting Americas economy, since now there is less money in our system.

If you are taking money out of the system, and never paying taxes, eventually you run out of money, and your country becomes a desolate hole. So yeah, I'm going to protect myself before I start helping other people, so I can keep helping them, instead of using up all my resources and becoming just like them.

Oh, and you don't' know what racism means, don't even bother tying to apply it to this argument.


Abusing well fare systems isn't something only illegal immigrants do. Born and raised citizens do that aswell, they are also unemployed while illegal immigrants will have jobs, and I'm quite certain that all these so called illegal immgirants would gladly become legal immigrants and pay taxes given the chance.
sometimes I see us in a cymbal splash or in the sound of a car crash
#39
I think that illegal immigration is wrong (note: the word ILLEGAL. Not immigration in general), and steps should definitely be taken to avoid that. But shit like the Arizona law is just ****ing overboard. As far as those that are here already, I don't think they should be immediately reported. A lot of them have respectable jobs, they pay their taxes, and they've settled here and started a family. They should be given a chance to obtain their citizenship, or even a permanent residency. Maybe even fine them for coming here illegally, for those who think that they should be at least somewhat punished.

Just my two cents.
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