Poll: Which guitar?
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View poll results: Which guitar?
Ibanez S570DXQM
32 67%
Ibanez XPT700
16 33%
Voters: 48.
#1
http://www.ibanez.com/ElectricGuitars/model-XPT700

http://www.ibanez.com/ElectricGuitars/model-S570DXQM


I want one of these two, i really like the Xiphos body style, ad the pickups in the guitar, but i'm worried about the Edge III. Would i be better off just getting the strat with the ZR?
I play all kinds of classic rock, but also hair maetal, and heavy metal ike metallica.


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Last edited by twistedsista521 at Jul 14, 2011,
#2
What style of music and preferences of body. I would use those before a recomindation.
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#3
I really need advice on this one, cause everyone seems to think that the edge 3 is crap, ad i've never tried it.
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#4
The S570. For sure. The ZR trem is worlds apart from the Edge 3 in quality.
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#5
i have a guitar with an edge III its kinda broken now and rusty from sweat and using the guitar as a chopping board to cook dinner didnt help but it stays in tune at least!!
#6
Quote by mailbox2112
The S570. For sure. The ZR trem is worlds apart from the Edge 3 in quality.

This +100
#7
how much are they? dont feel like googling...

u might get tired of the weird body of the xiphos so keep that in mind
#9
And the dimarzio pickups would obviosly blow the INF out of thewater.
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#10
I would go for the S570DXQM.
Maybe after you get more money, you get install some new pickups.
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#11
Quote by twistedsista521



Why does the edge work better for chappers though? He knows anything and everything about guitars.
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#12
Cmon guys, all i need to know is if the edge 3 is suitable AT ALL. Because this will be my first double locking trem guitar, and i've wanted a xiphos for a LONG time. But i'm just afraid that the edge will suck TOO bad.
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#13
XPT700 - DiMarzio® D Activator
S570DXQM - INF2

If you are not planning on changing pick-ups- Xiphos of course.
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          #14
          Quote by some1fat
          XPT700 - DiMarzio® D Activator
          S570DXQM - INF2

          If you are not planning on changing pick-ups- Xiphos of course.



          Thats what i was thinking, but everyone seems to think the edge iii is crap, and others think its good enough to last a few years. I just don't know what to expect from an edge iii.
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          #15
          Why do people hate on the Edge so much? I see people bashing it all the time but I've never actually read an explanation. What exactly is the complaint?
          #16
          Quote by Rainmaker31
          Why do people hate on the Edge so much? I see people bashing it all the time but I've never actually read an explanation. What exactly is the complaint?


          The complaint is that the metal is too soft, so the knife edge pivots wear it downb fast. But i'd think that there would be a way to correct that. I've heard petroleum jelly might help but idk.
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          #17
          Some people have had success over years with the edge 3, but many have not. You can take your chances, lube it, and hope it lasts, but there's a good possibility that it will not because it is a cheap metal knife edge. The ZR will last because it uses a bearing, but it is a different feeling trem than a floyd.
          #18
          Quote by W4RP1G
          Some people have had success over years with the edge 3, but many have not. You can take your chances, lube it, and hope it lasts, but there's a good possibility that it will not because it is a cheap metal knife edge. The ZR will last because it uses a bearing, but it is a different feeling trem than a floyd.



          How long do you think it would last if i took good care of it?
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          #19
          Got your PM but though I would post here so if anybody disagrees with me they can add thier opinion to the matter

          I would actually take the Xiphos in this situation. Even though I hate the Edge III. It really is that bad, it just doesnt last very long and its a poor effort at a decent trem, though if you rarely used it and took great care of it it could lat ou a long long time, but its far more likely that it wont.

          It has better pickups and for the money it would cost to replace the pickups in the S, you could buy one of the following...

          Ibanez Edge III route accepts----------------------- Edge Pro, Original Floyd Rose, Gotoh LFR


          Which would make your Xiphos an guitar that would have both great pickups and a rock solid trem.

          Considering you wanted to play heavy stuff, the way the Xiphos looks and plays would be ideal. I would go for that and then change out the trem.

          It sounds like the Xiphos is the one you want so go for it, doing a trem change would make it the guitar they should have done in the first place.

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          #20
          It's a lottery. I used to have an Ibanez with an Edge Pro II trem, which is better than the Edge II and it didn't get lots of use yet was still showing signs of wear fairly quickly. The 'S' series is far better in every way. To buy the XPT700 largely because you like the shape is childish and the chances are you'll grow out of it anyway. The 'S' series is a classic design and a great guitar. If the pickups bother you that much and you can't wait to upgrade, just buy a slightly lower version and change the pups. To me this is a no-brainer.
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          #21
          Quote by Doadman
          It's a lottery. I used to have an Ibanez with an Edge Pro II trem, which is better than the Edge II and it didn't get lots of use yet was still showing signs of wear fairly quickly. The 'S' series is far better in every way. To buy the XPT700 largely because you like the shape is childish and the chances are you'll grow out of it anyway. The 'S' series is a classic design and a great guitar. If the pickups bother you that much and you can't wait to upgrade, just buy a slightly lower version and change the pups. To me this is a no-brainer.



          So you would recommend getting something like this then swapping the pups? So you have tried the ZR, and its much better quality?

          http://www.guitarcenter.com/Ibanez-S570B-Electric-Guitar-584141-i1499768.gc#customer-reviews
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          #22
          Yes, I have tried both trem units and the ZR is certainly better. It does feel a little different but it's no big deal quite honestly. To me the ZR was more accurate and felt more solidly built. To get a really good locking trem unit you generally have to spend enough money on a guitar to get an OFR or something very similar. That's a lot of money, especially if you may still want to change the pickups anyway. I know, because I've done it. I bought my Jackson SL3 largely because it had an OFR (there were other reasons) and it came with Seymour Duncan Hotrails and a JB but they simply weren't good enough so I still spent an additional £220 on Bareknuckle pickups. The guitar is awesome now but I've spent £1000 on it and that's a lot, or at least it is to me. If you don't have that sort of money available you have three choices:

          1) Buy a guitar with a fixed bridge and maybe a Digitech Whammy pedal.

          2) Buy a guitar with a locking trem and simply accept that it's crap and may well fall apart.

          3) Buy an Ibanez 'S' series guitar with a ZR trem system. Just like the other two options, you've spent relatively little money but you do have a world class trem system.

          In time, once you've really got to grips with the sound of the guitar, you can then investigate an upgrade to your pickups and that is worth looking into carefully because it's an area that an astonishing number of people get wrong. I've seen loads of posts on here where people suggest particular pickups without thinking about the construction of the guitar, the woods used, the amp or the style of playing. The Seymour Duncan JB that was in my Jackson was a good pickup but having had Bareknuckle pickups before, it simply wasn't good enough so I switched to a Bareknuckle 'Holydiver' which is VASTLY superior and the JB was put in a Yamaha Pacifica where it does very well. The Seymour Duncan Hotrails in the Jackson (maple neck-thru and Alder wings) were bloody awful pickups that turned to a horrible mush far too easily but in the Yamaha Pacifica, which has different woods and construction, they're really good. The chances are you may end up doing this with any guitar you buy so why bother paying loads for pickups you may well change anyway? When I buy a new guitar now, I never bother even looking what pickups are in it because I know I'll probably change them sooner or later.

          As for the shape of the guitar, I remember really wanting either an Ibanez Flying V or Ibanez Destroyer as a kid and I eventually got the Flying V but looking back, I realise that I largely bought it because I thought the shape looked 'cool'. I was young and foolish and now that I am older and wiser, I wouldn't go near a daft shaped guitar. I say this for a few reasons:

          1) Look at the people who tend to play them. Look at the people even on here who say that they really want a particular guitar because of the shape. Most are just kids who are apparently more about image than music. Is that really what you want to say about yourself?

          2) Fashions change and you may well end up looking like a right tosser on stage with his daft shaped guitar.

          3) This is probably the most important reason to me. When you have a daft shaped guitar, people's expectations of your playing change. You arrive with the XPT700 and all that people will expect is Metal and shred. That's OK if that's all you want to play and you can do it really well but you're going to look ridiculous if you can't shred like the best or try playing a slightly different style and of course, as you evolve as a guitarist, your tastes and style will naturally broaden. Due to the headstock, I still have that problem to a degree with my Jackson! I once knew a guitarist who was easily the fastest shredder I've ever seen but he also liked to play Blues and even Classical and he told me that he wouldn't even have a guitar with a locking trem for this very reason. He always argued that if you play a Fender Stratocaster, nobody has any expectations of your playing so you can really blow their minds when you let rip up and down the fretboard but they will also accept you when you tone it down. Arrive with a guitar that shouts 'SHRED' and all you can do is fail because the expectations are too high. I saw him play at a 'Battle of the Bands' competition and he was right. He went on stage and really let rip and the place went wild. Another guitarist tried it with his fancy shaped guitar and even though he was a good player, the reaction wasn't the same. OK, I do play a guitar with a locking trem but I've always remembered his wise words and if I could have found a neck-thru guitar with an OFR that looked even more 'normal' than my Jackson, I would have bought it and it's this reason more than anything else that I would never get a daft shaped guitar. The Ibanez 'S' series is primarily a Metal guitar but you can play anything with it and not look silly.

          Honestly, if you want a guitar with a locking trem but don't want to spend a small fortune, an Ibanez 'S' series is the best you can get.
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          #23
          All these guys going on about changing pups... he could swap the trembling for.less than a full set up of new pups.

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          #24
          Obviously I am aware he could change the trem too but I would rather change pickups if at all possible rather than the trem for a number of reasons:

          1) In my experience, you tend to gravitate towards changing any stock pickups anyway, regardless of what those stock items are, as I did with the Seymour Duncans in my Jackson. If the trem is good, most people would be less inclined to do that.

          2) Some replacement trems will require some routing work done to the body of the guitar and even if it doesn't, I still wouldn't be inclined to do it.

          3) If and when you decide to sell the guitar, any upgrade you make to the instrument will have negligable effect on its value so you only want to make changes that are easily reversed. This can be done far more easily with pickups than with a trem. Furthermore, if you decide to sell the upgrade parts seperately, in my experience the pickups will have a more ready market.

          I apologise to anyone with a daft shaped guitar who isn't a kid as I meant no offence but broadly speaking I stand by what I said and I still think that if you want a cheapish guitar with a really good locking trem, the Ibanez 'S' series is the best you can get. If that doesn't suit you, see what is the cheapest guitar you can get with an OFR, regardless of how boring the shape is. Ideally, still don't get a guitar in a daft shape
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          #25
          I'm starting to understand what you mean. I bet in a few years i will have grown out of the xiphos. I think i will almost definately go with the S570DXQM, it is however not a boring looking guitar, its beautiful. I have actually played INF pups and i didn't think they were that bad but i had always heard that dimarzios and duncans were better, which led me to think that the XPT700 was a steal.
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          #26
          You're right that the INF pickups aren't the worst you can get but equally, they're not great and both Seymour Duncan and DiMarzio are better BUT, that is only a small part of the story. For a start, about 80% of your tone comes from your amp so pickups will only ever put the finishing touches to what is already there rather than completely transforming your sound. Secondly, how do you know that the DiMarzio pickups on the XPT700 are right for you? I can't stand active pickups myself as I find them far too sterile. They tend to sound much the same regardless of the guitar you put them in, in which case, what's the point of buying a guitar with good tonal woods? When I go from a really good passive pickup to actives, it always feels like I'm moving from a decent valve amp to a modelling unit. What if you're the same? You'll love them at first because they're better than the INF pups but you'll still end up changing them to something that suits you better and if that's the case, buying the XPT700 is no longer a steal. These things are always relative anyway. Any Seymour Duncan or DiMarzio is probably going to sound better than the INF pickups and, to me at least, any Bareknuckle pickup sounds vastly superior to any SD or DiMarzio pickup but then the Bareknuckles use the highest quality materials and they are entirely made, individually, by hand so are naturally rather more expensive.If you can't stretch to Bareknuckles, both Seymour Duncan and DiMarzio make some excellent pickups, depending on what you're after. When it comes to new pickups, investigate your options carefully and visit their forum websites before making your choice and don't simply buy what your favourite guitarist uses because they may well not be your best option.

          Finally, you're right that the S570DXQM is a beautiful looking guitar. It's an interesting take on a classic design and with the right pickups, it could also be a highly versatile instrument. I don't have the slightest doubt that you'll love it.
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          #27
          Thanks man you've been a great help and i have made my final decision.





          TS
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          #28
          I have the xiphos and had it at left 3 years. I have never had a problem with the trem. If set up well it will last.

          The trem stays in tune very well and can be used without going out of tune.
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          #29
          Xiphos is a beast.. It is my first guitar and.. I simply love it.. I see that EDGE III is not welcome in UG.. I honestly don't know why yet.. not that experienced.. I really don't think it is a reason to dump Xiphos.. Great pickups.. Awesome shape.. It would make a really good guitar in my opinion..
          #30
          Wher are the lower end s series made? Japan? Korea?
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          #31
          Quote by twistedsista521
          Wher are the lower end s series made? Japan? Korea?

          I believe the lower ends are made in Indonesia. My EGEN8 was made there.
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          #33
          Quote by mailbox2112
          The S570. For sure. The ZR trem is worlds apart from the Edge 3 in quality.

          In my opinion and very limited knowledge/experience, this sums it up...
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          #34
          It's not just UG where the Edge III is hated. Look on the Ibanez forum or even just Google Edge III and you'll see it's universally hated by those who know about these things. I still stand by every word I said. I think the trem IS a reason to dump it and I think I gave a number of convincing explanations as to why that should be the case. You buy an Edge III at your peril but you WILL regret it sooner or later. Great pickups? Perhaps, if you like actives but I don't and it may well be that the TS won't either, in which case it's pointless having them and let's face it, on the XPT700, that's mostly what you're paying for. As for the shape, I think that's been covered. It's 'awesome' if you're a kid but faintly ridiculous if you're an adult.

          Why anyone with even a limited IQ would buy the XPT700 over the S570DXQM is beyond me. OK, the woods are nice and I love a neck-thru guitar but the S570 has much the same basic woods plus a quilted maple top that not only looks fantastic but will help to lift the high notes out of the mahogany. It's a far more ergonomic shape than the XPT700 and will certainly date better. The HSH layout gives it more tonal options and it has a world class trem system as opposed to one of the worst trems in the world. Furthermore, changing the pickups is easy and allows you to put in exactly what you want whereas if you don't like those horrible D Activators, you have to start changing all the wiring and pots as well as the pickups if you switch from actives to passives. Actives give you power whereas passives give you better tone.
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