#1
Yesterday, during a lecture at the Academy I had a DVD playing of an old Jim Croce concert and we watched them perform the song "These Dreams". I have always admired JC, and I had the students go through the song chordally, and work out a harmonic analysis of the song.

I got to thinking, maybe it would be a good listening exercise and breakdown exercise, for some of you, while learning some neat approaches to songwriting and using chords to tell a story, as well as some of the voice leading "classical guitar" like moves, between chords.

It's not too easy but not too hard either, and I believe most of you might learn a thing or two, by observing the piece as a whole, if you wanted to dig in and work it out.

I'd rate this one as intermediate to early advanced. If you are up to it, give it a go, and post the results, and let's see what we discover. I get a rush from songs like these, because there is a wealth of songwriting and arranging insight hidden in them.

Intermediate: Find - Key(s), post Harmonic analysis as far as Roman Numeric notation of the chords and functions,

Advanced: Same as Intermediate, but also... note cadences, and implied chords (used during the walking movement of chords in sync with the lyrics (usually in intervals of 6ths and 10ths - hint)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bA1j8quV64

Best,

Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at Jul 15, 2011,
#2
Goddamnit Sean, Not now!
Soon.
EDIT:Probably what most of those 88 views thought.
Last edited by liampje at Jul 15, 2011,
#3
Quote by liampje
Goddamnit Sean, Not now!
Soon.
EDIT:Probably what most of those 88 views thought.


and probably never...

Anyway Sean, I should do this. I've never trained my ear though and have never transcribed a song (bad, I know! ) Is it probably jumping in at the deep end. I've not checked the track yet as I'm at work.
#4
The first part is in D minor the only things I can hear with my screwy mind right now is i and the VI of D minor.
When he sings what came between us he modulates to D major by a I IV V progression.
Really quick analysis.
EDIT: he modulates to the parallel major.
And ofcourse I heard that Eminor in the D major section Which would make it a I IV ii V progression...
Last edited by liampje at Jul 15, 2011,
#5
Quote by Myshadow46_2
and probably never...

Anyway Sean, I should do this. I've never trained my ear though and have never transcribed a song (bad, I know! ) Is it probably jumping in at the deep end. I've not checked the track yet as I'm at work.


Well you can probably find the chords, but then, you still have to make sense of them

I don't mind if people figure it by ear (hardest) or just locate the chords online, as the real point is once you have the chords, making sense of them. Yeah I did it all without needing chords, because I've years and years of transcribing experience, but...for those who aren't, just start with chords.

@Liam,

More detail please. Try to organize your notes a little better and actually show what's going on. I'm not looking for a summary. I think your summary is off, but I cant be sure. Break it down to Chords, the Roman Numerals, the Keys and then explain what is happening.

ie:

"It starts in Dm and then goes to x which is a i.... and then goes to y which is...and then at the end it..."

Like that.

Or

Dm X
i ?

Best,

Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at Jul 15, 2011,
#6
i saw this thread and thought "oh yeah!?!?!" then i read it and thought "i like jim croce but not enough to go through the trouble of analyzing one of his lesser known tunes to a point where i could play it on anything but won't because no one will ever ask me to"
#7
Quote by z4twenny
i saw this thread and thought "oh yeah!?!?!" then i read it and thought "i like jim croce but not enough to go through the trouble of analyzing one of his lesser known tunes to a point where i could play it on anything but won't because no one will ever ask me to"

It doesn't matter if you can play it or not. The analyzing part is the most interesting part of the exercise. I spent the whole previous year to analyzing songs, songs I knew I wouldn't play for long or just not at all. But I learned a lot that year

@Sean: I'll give it a try, it's been too long. But damn, no clear bass makes it a lot harder
lalala
#8
^ oh i've spent tons of time analyzing songs from everywhere but i think this specific song would just be like homework or an exercise. i'm not saying i'd get nothing from it, but i am saying that based on the musical selection and the fact that i've already done this so much with other tracks that i enjoy more, i don't have any urge to go and analyse it just for the exercise.
#10
Quote by z4twenny
^ oh i've spent tons of time analyzing songs from everywhere but i think this specific song would just be like homework or an exercise. i'm not saying i'd get nothing from it, but i am saying that based on the musical selection and the fact that i've already done this so much with other tracks that i enjoy more, i don't have any urge to go and analyse it just for the exercise.


I've never seen any of your analysis' before, I wonder how you would have done on the advanced side of this. Someone in that band liked counterpoint!

Best,

Sean
#11
Got the intro worked out
Intro
-----
|Dm------Dm/C----|Bb------Gm------|A7--------------|
|I-------I/VII---|VI------IV------|V7--------------|

|Dm--------------|Bb------Gm------|Dm--Bb--Dm--Bb--|A7--------------|
|I---------------|VI------IV------|I---VI--I---VI--|V7--------------|

Begin of verse is the same, with the 3 lasts bars repeated.

First 4 bars is an almost I-IV-V-I system. The VI replaces the IV (IV7=VI/IV) and it's a dominant V back to I. 6th bar I'm not sure if it's right. Looks correct though since I and VI are quite related.
lalala
#13
Quote by Sean0913
Well you can probably find the chords, but then, you still have to make sense of them

I don't mind if people figure it by ear (hardest) or just locate the chords online, as the real point is once you have the chords, making sense of them. Yeah I did it all without needing chords, because I've years and years of transcribing experience, but...for those who aren't, just start with chords.

@Liam,

More detail please. Try to organize your notes a little better and actually show what's going on. I'm not looking for a summary. I think your summary is off, but I cant be sure. Break it down to Chords, the Roman Numerals, the Keys and then explain what is happening.

ie:

"It starts in Dm and then goes to x which is a i.... and then goes to y which is...and then at the end it..."

Like that.

Or

Dm X
i ?

Best,

Sean

Sorry, I just did this in 15 minutes.
But I can't heart that fingerstyle well, I never ever played a fingerstyle song.
Never really listened except Tommy Emanuel but ofcourse not play it, that's imposible.
I can hear that after the Dmin he uses a Dmin/C which is a minor seventh in third inversion then he goes one half step below C which is B major sixth of D minor, I know it functions differently because it has an add note in it but in this context it seems pretty useless to do that.
That Major sixth is an accidental which key it could diatonically fit in would only be D dorian, it could also be a note borrowed from D major.
uuhm I don't know if he does this later or rightly after this but then he changes to an
A sharp major chord.
I only have a down to C standard tuned acoustic on me right now so I can't figure it out.
I'll try and do this later as I am not kind of entertaining you with my attempt while I'm constantly saying I can't do this I am not hearing this etc.
Sorry Sean.
EDIT:Know what tommorow if I have the time for it I'm writing it down on paper and make a photo of it.
making these schemes on internet is annoying.
Last edited by liampje at Jul 15, 2011,
#14
Sounds like a great challenge, I'll be doing this after I wake up and when it's not 5 in the morning.
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#15
Quote by Didii
Got the intro worked out
Intro
-----
|Dm------Dm/C----|Bb------Gm------|A7--------------|
|I-------I/VII---|VI------IV------|V7--------------|

|Dm--------------|Bb------Gm------|Dm--Bb--Dm--Bb--|A7--------------|
|I---------------|VI------IV------|I---VI--I---VI--|V7--------------|

Begin of verse is the same, with the 3 lasts bars repeated.

First 4 bars is an almost I-IV-V-I system. The VI replaces the IV (IV7=VI/IV) and it's a dominant V back to I. 6th bar I'm not sure if it's right. Looks correct though since I and VI are quite related.


Keep going Great job, keep in mind what Griff said...

Sean
#17
Quote by Sean0913
It's the weekend...Didii's off to a pretty good start. You don't have to play it or work out the finger-style, just the progression and movement/analysis. Its actually not that hard, and should be well within reach for most of you

Best,

Sean

So I can just look up the chords?