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#1
hey guys,

i had an argument with my friend sometime back about todays music in general..he began praising the beatles and in my opinion they're over-rated (its just my opinion, i'm not tryin to diss beatles fans)...but it doesn't mean i don't understand what an impact they caused on music history...

but it seems like everyone wants that history to be repeated...people are always lookin for that band that sounds like the beatles, led zeppelin or metallica...i guess it set a standard..but then i see a lot of my friends talk shit abt other bands that try to emulate the band whether its to do with the bands style or its just one guy who hits the drums like bonham and then they go back to listening to the old music...and how long can that go on for? like i said these kinds of bands set standards and did amazing stuff...but we gotta move forward right?

i don't wanna turn this into a physics argument...but its kinda like how everyone talks about einsteins and newtons discoveries...which of course laid the foundations of physics and other subjects as we know it...but it doesn't mean people aren't discovering new things....but their names don't get dropped too often anyhow

likewise theres a lotta new music out there which is "cutting edge" which a lot of people seem to ignore...and i'm not talkin abt frackin pop music...i mean the stuff which we rock-n-roll/metal elitists love to listen to...

why do you guys think new music isn't out there as much? is it to do with the mainstream waterfall of katy perry and gaga? lack of talent? everythings been done..from now on its recyled waste? lazyness to find the good stuff?

i hope the posters of this thread don't wind up confused...its not abt hip hop vs rock, nu-metal vs metal...its abt legends vs the new breeds
#2
Every generation has people bitching "music today isn't the same as it used to be <insert older decade> is superior"

This is a never ending cycle
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#3
your friend is right. Newton and Einstein were way better at Pokemon than Led Zeppelin.

i assume that's what you're talking about here? *tl;dc*
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#5
With todays music and alot of music, i think a lot (not all) of musicians want the success and money so they try to follow a blueprint from a successful band or artist in hopes of following them in terms of success. Those people need to create music that they love and not worry about the fame or money, if the fame and money comes along then thats one thing but they shouldnt make music just for the money.

i just realized I used the words fame and money a lot in that explanation.
Last edited by ampoverload at Jul 16, 2011,
#6
Yeah,it seems kids today don't have much taste. Like listen to the Rolling Stones,Buffalo Springfield,Aerosmith,Alice in Chains,Jefferson Airplane,Judas Priest,and other rock/metal bands

Seriously the likes of Ke$ha,Justin Bieber,and Lady Gaga tick me off.
#7
Quote by Axelfox
Yeah,it seems kids today don't have much taste. Like listen to the Rolling Stones,Buffalo Springfield,Aerosmith,Alice in Chains,Jefferson Airplane,Judas Priest.

Seriously the likes of Ke$ha,Justin Bieber,and Lady Gaga tick me off.


Back in the day it was Britney Spears, Madonna, Backstreet Boys, New Kids on the Block, and Baycity Rollers. Every generation has their Pop singers that are hated in their day.
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#8
popular forms of music are the direct result of the popular forms of music that came before them.
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#9
People think that "back in the day" it was better because our collective memory has weeded out all the crap from back then. For example, we associate so much powerful and meaningful music from the 60s because those songs are the ones that stuck with us. What we don't remember are the countless dumb pop hits and songs from other genres that just sucked but were still popular for a while, just like today.

People who say "music was so much better back then" are either stupid, too concerned with deriding music they don't like, too lazy to seek out awesome music, or some combination of the three.
^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^


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#10


So you mean to tell me, that your friend thinks there are absolutely no good bands today?


TS, you need new friends.
#11
You're never gonna be able to get away from it. The Beatles were huge, I agree they can be over rated some times. I personally like them. But whether we like it or not, they were one of, if not the biggest band in history. Same goes for Zeppelin, and I'm not just saying that because they're my favorite band.
As for your Einstein/Newton argument, you can't really compare what they figured out to what's being figured out now. Think about it, it took the human race until they were born to conceptualize gravity. That's right up there with the concept of 0. In the long run, those discoveries have had much more of an impact on us than any discoveries made X light years away. I guess that can also be said for the bands you're referring to. They paved the way for many of the bands around today. That doesn't mean they're better, or the bands today are worse. If anything, the bands today are at a disadvantage because so much has already been done, that it takes a lot to do something really new and amazing.

That's juts my two cents. I'm kind of getting sidetracked now, so I'll have to end this post abruptly :P
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#12
yeah n i'll be honest a lot of the music out now is shit...i'm not much of a hardcore fan.. which happens to be the genre of almost any band i come across now..i like the energy though, but the bands that i like, they do stick with me...but its like lookin for a needle in hay stack...thanks to so many recordings out there...sometimes the fault is just the crappy production...other times it just don't dig the music much

n a lot of these famous bands now...when they started they seemed to be doing pretty well in terms of the way the crowd would recieve 'em...maybe the critics didn't like 'em much...screw 'em though..look where led zep is now...and motorhead, once dubbed the "worst band ever" haha...basically i'm saying that i think people can see what a good band is when they see one...but they're to find
#13
One of the biggest differences is that there were a lot of musical and cultural walls to break down in the Beatles/Zeppelin/Metallica's time. Now, nothing is off limits, because every taboo has been sold. It's no longer controversial to say you're bigger than Jesus. Plus, from a strictly musical perspective, technological advancement has ushered us into an era where almost no sound is unobtainable.

One of the big "problems" too is that in the technological age, it is very difficult for an artist to keep a larger than life persona, because popular media strips these icons of mystery through rampant exposure. Now, playing a "character" comes across not as mystical, but disingenuous. It is the popular thing to be "down to earth" now, which doesn't really breed controversy, in turn, often dialing down interest.

Finally, because of widespread information distribution (ie, tab websites), anyone can learn a few songs and be in a rock band without listening to an album a few hundred times, so it immediately equalizes a group of perceived musical demigods ("oh, it's not really that difficult to play that solo or sing like that.")

Times are a-changin'.
#14
Quote by ali.guitarkid7


So you mean to tell me, that your friend thinks there are absolutely no good bands today?


TS, you need new friends.


haha hell no...they're the best...that dudes actually roadie for my band
#16
Quote by Axelfox
Yeah,it seems kids today don't have much taste. Like listen to the Rolling Stones,Buffalo Springfield,Aerosmith,Alice in Chains,Jefferson Airplane,Judas Priest,and other rock/metal bands

Seriously the likes of Ke$ha,Justin Bieber,and Lady Gaga tick me off.


aren't you the guy that said that it takes no skill whatsoever to make electronic music?
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#17
Good example would be in the movie Detroit Rock City...
Disco guys think rock/metal sucks (the people nowadays listening to rock)
Rock guys think disco sucks (the people who listen to pop and stuff nowadays)
Old people and christians/catholics don't like any of them (they still listen to there old music)

that's one way to think of the changes, there will always be people liking the previous generations work, but i think that chain will just get more diverse. like in 20 years, some kids might like classical, some like jazz, some like 2010 pop, some like 80's hard rock, some like zeppelin, and then the mainstream music kids. There still will be trendy music, and lots of people listening to it, but people listening to even more diverse music probably because of all this music that has been made.
#18
Everyone is going to criticize the band that tries to change everything (or even themselves). Most parents hated the whole rock and roll scene in the '60's-'70's from what I gather, and I'm sure a few parents feel the same about some of the stuff us kids listen to.
Anyway, hope is not lost as far as "revolutionary" bands go. Take a look at Thrice if you haven't already. Their early stuff is very punk-ish/metal, but their album(s) before the latest is revolutionary for their sound (and in my opinion is amazingly genius).
Many bands will try to change a style, or create something new.
Many bands will stick with what they know. So as far as which is better? Both. It's all just a matter of opinion.
To the point, I think not many bands are going to be as out there as they want because it usually won't equal success.
#19
Quote by greekboy slim
You're never gonna be able to get away from it. The Beatles were huge, I agree they can be over rated some times. I personally like them. But whether we like it or not, they were one of, if not the biggest band in history. Same goes for Zeppelin, and I'm not just saying that because they're my favorite band.
As for your Einstein/Newton argument, you can't really compare what they figured out to what's being figured out now. Think about it, it took the human race until they were born to conceptualize gravity. That's right up there with the concept of 0. In the long run, those discoveries have had much more of an impact on us than any discoveries made X light years away. I guess that can also be said for the bands you're referring to. They paved the way for many of the bands around today. That doesn't mean they're better, or the bands today are worse. If anything, the bands today are at a disadvantage because so much has already been done, that it takes a lot to do something really new and amazing.

That's juts my two cents. I'm kind of getting sidetracked now, so I'll have to end this post abruptly :P


lol u writing this has proved the point i was trying to make....they did amazing things that are influential even to this day...but can u really expect to see this stuff going on? the music got louder, faster and heavier over the years....how much more can you go eventually?
#20
Quote by Horsedick.MPEG
Every generation has people bitching "music today isn't the same as it used to be <insert older decade> is superior"

This is a never ending cycle



while I am in this group (I insert 60's as the superior decade) all decades/eras of music have had corporate-produced pop. Look at something like The Partridge Family or the Monkees. Much the same as a lot of pop stars today.
"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, stratagems, and spoils. The motions of his spirit are dull as night, and his affections dark as Erebus. Let no such man be trusted."
#21
Quote by rockingamer2
People think that "back in the day" it was better because our collective memory has weeded out all the crap from back then. For example, we associate so much powerful and meaningful music from the 60s because those songs are the ones that stuck with us. What we don't remember are the countless dumb pop hits and songs from other genres that just sucked but were still popular for a while, just like today.

People who say "music was so much better back then" are either stupid, too concerned with deriding music they don't like, too lazy to seek out awesome music, or some combination of the three.


I beg to differ dude. I'm always looking for new music. I also don't waste my time hating bands that I don't have to listen to. Furthermore, I also like to believe that I am not stupid. However, I personally think music was better "back in the day". That doesn't mean that I was, it just means that most of the music I like came from that time period. The Foo Fighters are one of my favorite bands, I love Tool (which isn't a NEW band, but definitely not form the 60s). I just prefer more of the music from the 70s and such. To my taste, I think it was a much more solid decade.

I think it's unfair to say people that like music from "back in the day" are stupid or whatever...
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Here, an awesome medal. It's made out of awesomnite.
:extends medal:


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Thank you!
I would give you an awesome metal, but
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#22
why do you guys think new music isn't out there as much?
I think new music isn't out there partially because of the economy and partially because people believe promoting for a band is getting on facebook and inviting all your friends. Also a lot of the consumers want something that is easy to understand. If they have to put a little thought into what they listened to then they would never listen to it.

is it to do with the mainstream waterfall of katy perry and gaga?
Yes, major labels want the next big thing if they are popular, then they want what makes money. Most creative musicians don't have the business man's mind. So they don't know how to take their artwork and make it a marketable product. Sucks but it's true.

lack of talent?
For the most part

everythings been done..from now on its recyled waste?
Well most people want what they are used too. They fear change, so what do you get, the same bullshit over and over and over again until somehow someone can force change upon people's minds

lazyness to find the good stuff?
Yes, if it's not hand fed to the general population then it won't be recognized as a great composition just another unknown
#23
Quote by rayven1lk
lol u writing this has proved the point i was trying to make....they did amazing things that are influential even to this day...but can u really expect to see this stuff going on? the music got louder, faster and heavier over the years....how much more can you go eventually?

It only got louder faster and heavier in metal really. Everyone else has been more concerned with making stuff how they like rather than being tryhards.
#24
Quote by Chaingarden
One of the biggest differences is that there were a lot of musical and cultural walls to break down in the Beatles/Zeppelin/Metallica's time. Now, nothing is off limits, because every taboo has been sold. It's no longer controversial to say you're bigger than Jesus. Plus, from a strictly musical perspective, technological advancement has ushered us into an era where almost no sound is unobtainable.

One of the big "problems" too is that in the technological age, it is very difficult for an artist to keep a larger than life persona, because popular media strips these icons of mystery through rampant exposure. Now, playing a "character" comes across not as mystical, but disingenuous. It is the popular thing to be "down to earth" now, which doesn't really breed controversy, in turn, often dialing down interest.

Finally, because of widespread information distribution (ie, tab websites), anyone can learn a few songs and be in a rock band without listening to an album a few hundred times, so it immediately equalizes a group of perceived musical demigods ("oh, it's not really that difficult to play that solo or sing like that.")

Times are a-changin'.



this pretty much summed it up completely and perfectly :applause:
"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, stratagems, and spoils. The motions of his spirit are dull as night, and his affections dark as Erebus. Let no such man be trusted."
#25
Quote by PeachFUzzdrums
why do you guys think new music isn't out there as much?
I think new music isn't out there partially because of the economy and partially because people believe promoting for a band is getting on facebook and inviting all your friends. Also a lot of the consumers want something that is easy to understand. If they have to put a little thought into what they listened to then they would never listen to it.

is it to do with the mainstream waterfall of katy perry and gaga?
Yes, major labels want the next big thing if they are popular, then they want what makes money. Most creative musicians don't have the business man's mind. So they don't know how to take their artwork and make it a marketable product. Sucks but it's true.

lack of talent?
For the most part

everythings been done..from now on its recyled waste?
Well most people want what they are used too. They fear change, so what do you get, the same bullshit over and over and over again until somehow someone can force change upon people's minds

lazyness to find the good stuff?
Yes, if it's not hand fed to the general population then it won't be recognized as a great composition just another unknown


This.

Like does anyone notice that Lady Gaga is trying to sound like Madonna?
#26
Quote by rayven1lk
but can u really expect to see this stuff going on? the music got louder, faster and heavier over the years....how much more can you go eventually?


I don't get what you mean by that... louder, faster, and heavier do not all make music better. There are two properties of music - sound AND silence. I think some of the greatest moments in music are breaks, quiet intros and things of that sort. I'm talking more about bands needing to do things that really stick out and pave the way for new bands and even genres. Again, I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but only time will be able to tell exactly how influential they are.
Quote by Eddie4President
You are amazing. The fact that you have paramore next to disturbed shows how awesome you are.
Here, an awesome medal. It's made out of awesomnite.
:extends medal:


Quote by Fallen_Seeker
Thank you!
I would give you an awesome metal, but
I can't find any awesomnite.
#27
Quote by greekboy slim
I beg to differ dude. I'm always looking for new music. I also don't waste my time hating bands that I don't have to listen to. Furthermore, I also like to believe that I am not stupid. However, I personally think music was better "back in the day". That doesn't mean that I was, it just means that most of the music I like came from that time period. The Foo Fighters are one of my favorite bands, I love Tool (which isn't a NEW band, but definitely not form the 60s). I just prefer more of the music from the 70s and such. To my taste, I think it was a much more solid decade.

I think it's unfair to say people that like music from "back in the day" are stupid or whatever...

I guess I came off too harsh. I should have clarified that I'm talking about the people who use that mentality almost as a dogma. Personal preference is cool, but closed minded people are another.
^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^


"To know the truth of history is to realize its ultimate myth and its inevitable ambiguity." Everything is made up and the facts don't matter.


MUSIC THEORY LINK
#28
Quote by greekboy slim
I beg to differ dude. I'm always looking for new music. I also don't waste my time hating bands that I don't have to listen to. Furthermore, I also like to believe that I am not stupid. However, I personally think music was better "back in the day". That doesn't mean that I was, it just means that most of the music I like came from that time period. The Foo Fighters are one of my favorite bands, I love Tool (which isn't a NEW band, but definitely not form the 60s). I just prefer more of the music from the 70s and such. To my taste, I think it was a much more solid decade.

I think it's unfair to say people that like music from "back in the day" are stupid or whatever...


haha i'm not callin u stupid or anything for listening to music back in the day...i do that too...but i still listen to some of the current stuff too...i'm an 80s thrash metal guy and thats what you'll catch me listening to most of the time...its just a lotta ppl who listen to music back in the day are of the mindset that "my shits better than yours" lol...as soon as they hear something new they'll be like this band sounds like metallica and pause the song even before the drum kicks in lol
#30
Quote by Swannie
while I am in this group (I insert 60's as the superior decade)


My personal favorite is 80s-90s Alternative rock, but I'm not stopping myself from finding and listening to new bands/artists
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#31
Quote by greekboy slim
I don't get what you mean by that... louder, faster, and heavier do not all make music better. There are two properties of music - sound AND silence. I think some of the greatest moments in music are breaks, quiet intros and things of that sort. I'm talking more about bands needing to do things that really stick out and pave the way for new bands and even genres. Again, I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but only time will be able to tell exactly how influential they are.


i was trying to talk abt the extremes dude..or the walls that culture and taboo have set forth...i'm not saying they necessarilly make music better, but it became a trend to make your music all that more hardcore
#32
Quote by rayven1lk
haha hell no...they're the best...that dudes actually roadie for my band

But...if he thinks all modern bands are crap, he probably dislikes your band aswell unless, you know, you're not a modern band...which would make you a time traveler.
#33
Glad we could all get that cleared up haha :P
People need to learn to respect other peoples differences and opinions. Comparing music tastes can never result in a fact. Saying "my music is better than yours" is never true. It's all up to the listener. Saying "my music is more popular than yours" can be true though.

I don't think any one should really stress about these close-minded people though. You're not going to change their mind, and their the one at loss for not being open to new music. I used to be that way. When I was 13. I tried to hate the Foo Fighters because they were "new". Then I grew up. Now they're one of my top 3 favorite bands.

That's all that I can really add to this topic
Quote by Eddie4President
You are amazing. The fact that you have paramore next to disturbed shows how awesome you are.
Here, an awesome medal. It's made out of awesomnite.
:extends medal:


Quote by Fallen_Seeker
Thank you!
I would give you an awesome metal, but
I can't find any awesomnite.
#34
Quote by rayven1lk
i was trying to talk abt the extremes dude..or the walls that culture and taboo have set forth...i'm not saying they necessarilly make music better, but it became a trend to make your music all that more hardcore


Like Zoot said, that's mostly in the metal community. I read in a GW interview with Soundgarden, they were commenting on how the metal community was always "I can play it faster, I can play more distorted, I can tune lower than you can lolol"
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#35
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
But...if he thinks all modern bands are crap, he probably dislikes your band aswell unless, you know, you're not a modern band...which would make you a time traveler.


haha no i have not time-travelled...but hes a good friend of mine on campus and hes willing to help out...he does like the music...i believe him...even if hes lying a lotta ppl wanna be in the middle of a band story and be part of the gig and everything...so i guess he doesn't mind being roadie...if anything his only criticism is that we should get tighter...(we've only been together 2 months)
#36
Quote by rayven1lk
i was trying to talk abt the extremes dude..or the walls that culture and taboo have set forth...i'm not saying they necessarilly make music better, but it became a trend to make your music all that more hardcore


Well look at it this way, Guns N' Roses were huge, and they did the exact OPPOSITE of what the trend was for bands at the time. That was hair metal. If you wanna be influential, you have to break the trend and start your own
Quote by Eddie4President
You are amazing. The fact that you have paramore next to disturbed shows how awesome you are.
Here, an awesome medal. It's made out of awesomnite.
:extends medal:


Quote by Fallen_Seeker
Thank you!
I would give you an awesome metal, but
I can't find any awesomnite.
#37
Quote by greekboy slim
Well look at it this way, Guns N' Roses were huge, and they did the exact OPPOSITE of what the trend was for bands at the time. That was hair metal. If you wanna be influential, you have to break the trend and start your own


haha honestly i believe you man...but i could never understand what it is they did different....i don't see it...care to elaborate?
#38
Quote by greekboy slim
Well look at it this way, Guns N' Roses were huge, and they did the exact OPPOSITE of what the trend was for bands at the time. That was hair metal. If you wanna be influential, you have to break the trend and start your own


Like,dude i Remember Guns N Roses as well.

Of course IMO,Grunge ruined everything and gave the media an excuse to ignore rock/metal music again.
#39
Quote by Axelfox
Of course IMO,Grunge ruined everything and gave the media an excuse to ignore rock/metal music again.


Wat
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#40
Quote by Axelfox
Like,dude i Remember Guns N Roses as well.

Of course IMO,Grunge ruined everything and gave the media an excuse to ignore rock/metal music again.


damn when it comes to grunge...all i like about it is alice in chians...they honestly seemed to have the best balance of technicality and songwriting compared to their peers in my opinion...speaking of over-rated bands...nirvana lol

but ur ryt axel...they turned their eyes on rock/metal after the cat got outta the bag
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