#1
i play sabbath, ozzy, gnr, metallica, atreyu, killswitch engage, etc.

i already have an epi les paul with emg's, and a marshall jcm 2000dsl..
will getting a pedal help me with pinch harmonics, tapping, soloing(i realize these things are technique mostly)....or give me a better metal tone?

i was looking to buy a used boss ml2 or something.

thoughts?
#2
No.

What you want is an overdrive pedal, not a distortion.

Run it in front of your amp's distortion to drive your amp harder. Don't put a cheap Boss metal pedal through that thing.
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#3
Quote by davem27
i play sabbath, ozzy, gnr, metallica, atreyu, killswitch engage, etc.

i already have an epi les paul with emg's, and a marshall jcm 2000dsl..
will getting a pedal help me with pinch harmonics, tapping, soloing(i realize these things are technique mostly)....or give me a better metal tone?

i was looking to buy a used boss ml2 or something.

thoughts?


IMO a TS on a tube amp is essensial for a better tone,

the technique you mentioned is all about your picking and fingering skills
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#4
well i always thought distortion was heavier than overdrive, no?

thats why i was lookingg at distortion....seems like it would aid a little in pinch harmonics n tapping
#5
Quote by MatrixClaw
No.

What you want is an overdrive pedal, not a distortion.

Run it in front of your amp's distortion to drive your amp harder. Don't put a cheap Boss metal pedal through that thing.

+1

TS, you don't want to ruin a good thing. Take your amp into guitar store and try out some Tubescreamers or other overdrives. Volume set at full, tone to taste, and gain set at zero.

EDIT
well i always thought distortion was heavier than overdrive, no?

thats why i was lookingg at distortion....seems like it would aid a little in pinch harmonics n tapping

Distortion might help, but really only used in situations where the amp doesn't have the gain on tap. Like Vai running a DS1(modded) into a Carvin Legacy. I don't think the JCM2000 needs more gain, just definition.
Last edited by Sputnik1 at Jul 16, 2011,
#7
Quote by davem27
well i always thought distortion was heavier than overdrive, no?

thats why i was lookingg at distortion....seems like it would aid a little in pinch harmonics n tapping

It IS, but you use the OD as a boost.
You turn the gain all the way down, set the tone to taste, and turn the volume all the way up.
#8
Quote by davem27
well i always thought distortion was heavier than overdrive, no?

thats why i was lookingg at distortion....seems like it would aid a little in pinch harmonics n tapping

You needto work on your technique. Pinch harmonics should sound out nicely no matter how much gain you have. If you can't get them to sound out nicely on a clean channel, you're doing them wrong.
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#9
Quote by Lespauljames
put the OD in front of the amp distortion, you dont want a shit box in front of an amp like that


i thought the amp had overdrive and not distortion......but yea its a nice amp, so i think i'll probably listen to u guys and go with overdrive.

whatabout an os-2?....it has both distortion n overdrive
#10
Your amp already has a shitload of distortion, and tube distortion sounds infinitely better than an ML-2. If you want more distortion crank the preamp. Also I agree that an overdrive pedal like the Tubescreamer or SD-1 can add some nice bite and clarity to a tube amp if you're playing metal. You might want to look into a compression pedal if you want more sustain for leads.
#11
get an od pedal. i would suggest a mxr wylde overdrive to pair with your marshall.

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#12
Quote by davem27
i thought the amp had overdrive and not distortion......but yea its a nice amp, so i think i'll probably listen to u guys and go with overdrive.

whatabout an os-2?....it has both distortion n overdrive


Overdrive is a type of distortion. It's meant to sound more tubelike, hence names like "Tubescreamer." And that's why that pedal is one of the most recommended of all time. It gets pretty damn good tube sounds out of it for less than $100. I'd get a Tubescreamer, if I were you.

EDIT: Here's a video I found of your amp with a TS-9 running through some metal stuff. If you like it, then you're golden.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpb_PH3G-RE&feature=related
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Last edited by kaosxrocker at Jul 16, 2011,
#13
tubescreamer ftw
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#14
personally i like the maxon 808 ods, but a tubescreamer or zakk wylde overdrive would do it too. also don't expect to buy and od, plug it in and turn into a soloing god. you need practice, like koshman said, you should be able to get a pinch harmonic with any gain setting if you're doing it right.
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#16
Quote by Sputnik1
Distortion might help, but really only used in situations where the amp doesn't have the gain on tap. Like Vai running a DS1(modded) into a Carvin Legacy. I don't think the JCM2000 needs more gain, just definition.


He often used stock DS-1s and the Legacy can get good levels of gain as it is. Plus Vai isn't metal.

Anyway, no you don't need pedals for metal, it depends what you want.

As far as I remember Tony Iommi only used a wah pedal and a treble booster back in the day.
He obviously used them to tweak his tone to how he wanted it, it was the amp doing all the gain stuff.

As others have said, if you need that bit extra get an OD pedal, but generally if your amp can handle the gain you won't need any pedals, it's just a matter of taste.
#17
Quote by davem27
i thought the amp had overdrive and not distortion......but yea its a nice amp, so i think i'll probably listen to u guys and go with overdrive.

whatabout an os-2?....it has both distortion n overdrive



I just got an OS-2, nice little pedal overall, but I seriously doubt it is what you want or need. Get a tubescreamer as already advised (MANY TIMES) I'd take my Ibanez TS9DX over the Boss OS-2 any day.
#18
Quote by davem27
well i always thought distortion was heavier than overdrive, no?

thats why i was lookingg at distortion....seems like it would aid a little in pinch harmonics n tapping


you're not running the od over your clean channel, you're using it to boost your od channels.

seriously, it's instant metal with even moderately high gain tube amps.

if you don't believe us, fair enough. Your call.



Quote by Koshman32
You needto work on your technique. Pinch harmonics should sound out nicely no matter how much gain you have. If you can't get them to sound out nicely on a clean channel, you're doing them wrong.


wut

of course more gain etc. will make them jump out more. saying it won't is intellectually dishonest.

Now of course if your technique is good you can do them even unplugged. But they won't sound the way you want them to for a "metal" (or even rock) context.

Quote by davem27
i thought the amp had overdrive and not distortion......but yea its a nice amp, so i think i'll probably listen to u guys and go with overdrive.

whatabout an os-2?....it has both distortion n overdrive


eh it's the same thing. and yeah, get an od. if you ask me the os2 isn't that great. just get an od.
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#19
Quote by Punk_Ninja
He often used stock DS-1s and the Legacy can get good levels of gain as it is. Plus Vai isn't metal.

Anyway, no you don't need pedals for metal, it depends what you want.

As far as I remember Tony Iommi only used a wah pedal and a treble booster back in the day.
He obviously used them to tweak his tone to how he wanted it, it was the amp doing all the gain stuff.

As others have said, if you need that bit extra get an OD pedal, but generally if your amp can handle the gain you won't need any pedals, it's just a matter of taste.

You say Iommi is metal and Vai isn't. LOL!
#20
Quote by Sputnik1
You say Iommi is metal and Vai isn't. LOL!


It's the truth... For the most part at least. Vai has some metal stuff but for the most part he isn't really a "metal" guy.
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#21
Quote by Sputnik1
You say Iommi is metal and Vai isn't. LOL!


ummm... are you trying to say Iommi isn't metal? cus that would just plain be nuts. as for Vai well i wouldn't call him metal either. he definitely has dipped into the metal well on occasion but i don't consider him a metal player. sure shred is an offshoot of metal but steve has gone past that years ago.
#24
Quote by davem27
i thought the amp had overdrive and not distortion......but yea its a nice amp, so i think i'll probably listen to u guys and go with overdrive.

whatabout an os-2?....it has both distortion n overdrive


I used to have one, and it was okay, but my Ibanez TS7 is a much better boost than it was. Got the amp tighter. I think you should look into the Boss SD-1. I hear that they play really nice with British amps. Any tubescreamer will obviously work too.

Just remember, Gain on 0, Level max. Set Tone to taste.
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#25
Silly question, I'm an effects junkie but have never figured this one out:

Since most people using OD as a boost keep the gain at or around 0, why don't they just recommend a clean boost or an eq pedal with master slider to boost the preamp and tighten things up? Same increase in input, same tone knob or, even better, a graphic eq to give things a little shape before the preamp.

Is it just because everyone's so used to the TS and its mid hump, making it more of a no brainer to dial in some tightness? Or is there some other obvious justification that I can't figure out?

I never need to run a hotter signal into my preamp, so it doesn't directly apply to me, but I'd think I'd prefer an eq with boost on it to an OD if I wasn't going to use the gain knob on the pedal anyway. At least that way you can get a little more shaping.

Edit* I guess it would be nice to have the OD around to use for it's own crunch when you're playing with a practice amp or something, but you could say the same thing about using the eq in other ways--it's useful in plenty of situations.
Last edited by dullsilver_mike at Jul 16, 2011,
#26
Quote by Dave_Mc

wut

of course more gain etc. will make them jump out more. saying it won't is intellectually dishonest.

Now of course if your technique is good you can do them even unplugged. But they won't sound the way you want them to for a "metal" (or even rock) context.


He's not saying they won't jump out more, he's saying that it's going to help him more if he works on his technique rather than relying on gain to get good pinch harmonics.
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#27
Quote by dullsilver_mike
Silly question, I'm an effects junkie but have never figured this one out:

Since most people using OD as a boost keep the gain at or around 0, why don't they just recommend a clean boost or an eq pedal with master slider to boost the preamp and tighten things up? Same increase in input, same tone knob or, even better, a graphic eq to give things a little shape before the preamp.

Is it just because everyone's so used to the TS and it's mid hump, making it more of a no brainer to dial in some tightness? Or is there some other obvious justification that I can't figure out?

I never need to run a hotter signal into my preamp, so it doesn't directly apply to me, but I'd think I'd prefer an eq with boost on it to an OD if I wasn't going to use the gain knob on the pedal anyway. At least that way you can get a little more shaping.

Edit* I guess it would be nice to have the OD around to use for it's own crunch when you're playing with a practice amp or something, but you could say the same thing about using the eq in other ways--it's useful in plenty of situations.

Well Tubescreamers have a noticeably mids hump which helps tighten things up. A clean boost will just increase the volume, which increases the gain. A Tubescreamer effects the tone as well, which is why they help tighten things up.
#28
Quote by darkwolf291
Well Tubescreamers have a noticeably mids hump which helps tighten things up. A clean boost will just increase the volume, which increases the gain. A Tubescreamer effects the tone as well, which is why they help tighten things up.


Some clean boosts have tone controls, though of course the tone stack might not be the same as the TS's, so does make perfect sense.

I still don't get why the TS is preferable to an eq pedal though.
#29
Quote by Sputnik1
Good lord we are not having this discussion.


You started it.

Quote by dullsilver_mike
Silly question, I'm an effects junkie but have never figured this one out:

Since most people using OD as a boost keep the gain at or around 0, why don't they just recommend a clean boost or an eq pedal with master slider to boost the preamp and tighten things up? Same increase in input, same tone knob or, even better, a graphic eq to give things a little shape before the preamp.

Is it just because everyone's so used to the TS and its mid hump, making it more of a no brainer to dial in some tightness? Or is there some other obvious justification that I can't figure out?

I never need to run a hotter signal into my preamp, so it doesn't directly apply to me, but I'd think I'd prefer an eq with boost on it to an OD if I wasn't going to use the gain knob on the pedal anyway. At least that way you can get a little more shaping.

Edit* I guess it would be nice to have the OD around to use for it's own crunch when you're playing with a practice amp or something, but you could say the same thing about using the eq in other ways--it's useful in plenty of situations.


You nailed it with the bold. It takes no more effort to dial in a tight tone with a Tubescreamer than dialing in a tone without it. An EQ adds a bit of complexity that many don't want, though EVH was using one in a way similar to how most use a Tubescreamer on the first few VH albums. The EQ also allows for a bit of extra sculpting but most don't really care or need it. A Tubescreamer also adds a bit of compression that many metal players find real fun to play with.
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#30
thanks for all the help guys. im definetly going for an overdrive pedal then....

maybe the wylde od or ts9.

oh and as far as pinch harmonics and everything else....yea i realize its technique...but with more gain the harmonics sound louder, so i would imagine with more gain they stand out more and sound better.....like tapping too, more gain, you can hear it clearer....but yea technique is more important.

i was just wondering basically, do all you guys who play metal have petals?

my amp has pretty decent distortion, i was just wondering if most use a pedal...
#31
Most use amp distortion alone if they have a real tight amp and pretty much everyone else uses a decent amp with decent gain and then pushes it a bit with a Tubescreamer or other boost depending on how tight it is.

The majority of people you'll find using a distortion pedal for all of their dirt are n00bz, though there are a few real good "metal pedals", ie the Toneczar Openhaus, Okko Dominator, etc.
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#32
Quote by mmolteratx
Most use amp distortion alone if they have a real tight amp and pretty much everyone else uses a decent amp with decent gain and then pushes it a bit with a Tubescreamer or other boost depending on how tight it is.

The majority of people you'll find using a distortion pedal for all of their dirt are n00bz, though there are a few real good "metal pedals", ie the Toneczar Openhaus, Okko Dominator, etc.


hmm so i guess it does depend on the amp....i used to have a vypyr, that was fine on its own.

i know line 6's have pretty insane distortion too

even though my marshall has a much better tone(imo), i do think a pedal is somewhat necessary....or fun i guess....id kinda rather have too much distortion than not enough.

i guess i was just under the assumption that everyone uses pedals
#33
Nope. Most metal guys (local and touring) that I see typically have a fairly simple board that's almost always an OD and tuner with maybe a delay or chorus, though there are exceptions.
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#34
Quote by davem27
i know line 6's have pretty insane distortion too



Im not trying to flame, but as of now I am the unproud owner of a spider IV. I am a metal player, and IMHO it has horrible distorted tone. Ive never tried other line 6s, but id rather just tell u now before you make any decision like mine further down the road if you want a smaller amp. good luck man
#35
Quote by livingston96
Im not trying to flame, but as of now I am the unproud owner of a spider IV. I am a metal player, and IMHO it has horrible distorted tone. Ive never tried other line 6s, but id rather just tell u now before you make any decision like mine further down the road if you want a smaller amp. good luck man


oh thanks man. yea i know those amps arent for tone...theyre digital as fuh...

i had a vypyr n it drove me crazy, i played classic rock and wanted a good natural tone, so i sold it...

now i got more into metal and ironically i kinda miss my vypyr because of all the cool effects built in the amp
#36
Quote by Offworld92

Just remember, Gain on 0, Level max. Set Tone to taste.


if you ask me, set it however you like. I mean it's not like it's a completely clean boost even with the gain at 0.

though a good starting point (into a distorted amp) would be gain at 9 o'clock or below, volume at 12 o'clock (at least) and tone between 12 and 2.


Quote by dullsilver_mike

Is it just because everyone's so used to the TS and its mid hump, making it more of a no brainer to dial in some tightness? Or is there some other obvious justification that I can't figure out?


Yeah, pretty much (and it also cuts bass). it does the legwork for you. Plus it adds a little of its own clipping, which some people like. and as matt says, it adds compression too, which works for well for heavier tones.

Basically it's doing the work of about 3-4 pedals, but in the one pedal. Which is nice.

Quote by kaosxrocker
He's not saying they won't jump out more, he's saying that it's going to help him more if he works on his technique rather than relying on gain to get good pinch harmonics.


how does he know that, though? maybe his technique is great.
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#37
Quote by livingston96
Im not trying to flame, but as of now I am the unproud owner of a spider IV. I am a metal player, and IMHO it has horrible distorted tone. Ive never tried other line 6s, but id rather just tell u now before you make any decision like mine further down the road if you want a smaller amp. good luck man


Line6 is a great brand!!
Exept the spider series, al though they are better as what i started with...

NO DISCUSSION ABOUT LINE6 plz, just keep it for the TS
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#38
Quote by Tunder250
Line6 is a great brand!!
Exept the spider series, al though they are better as what i started with...

NO DISCUSSION ABOUT LINE6 plz, just keep it for the TS
calm down man. you dont need to defend L6 so badly
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#39
Quote by davem27
well i always thought distortion was heavier than overdrive, no?

thats why i was lookingg at distortion....seems like it would aid a little in pinch harmonics n tapping


a distortion pedal is if you dont like your amps distortion and it run a ton of gain through a pedal. for any metal out there (with those few exceptions) u always want an Overdrive pedal (lighter gain). and if your amp has enough gain, all you need to do is turn the gain to 0, output to max, and mess with the tone knob on the pedal. it will tighten the bass to give you that nice chug, harmonics, and sustain
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#40
Quote by Sputnik1
You say Iommi is metal and Vai isn't. LOL!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY5EcG0m9nU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XWr9yc7JB8

...

Yes that's what I say.

(Not to de-rail, but Iommi is definitely very metal where Vai only has metal moments...maybe three or four songs in his entire career are "metal")